Index Astartes: Knights Gryphon

[Gryphonclaw]

KNIGHTS GRYPHON

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e179/Stormchh/spacemarineKnightsGryphonTacticalMa.jpg

[Gryphonclaw]

KNIGHTS GRYPHON

" Be all, See all, Hear all, Know all and let the Thunder come."

 

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e179/Stormchh/spacemarineKnightGryphonDevastator1.jpg

 

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e179/Stormchh/gryphon1-1.png

 

Chapter General Information

[/td]

 

Chapter motto:" Be all, See all, Hear all, Know all and let the Thunder come."

Chapter Battle Cry: "Difficulties be damned! Clear the Way!"

Chapter Banner: "That which is sacrosanct I shall preserve. That which is sublime I will protect. That which threatens I will destroy. For my wrath will know no bounds..... "

 

Chapter Homeworld: Aerie Prime (uncatalogued) Fuedal World located in the Segmentum Tempestus . The Chapter only returns when time permits for it's annual games but they have held them on different planets and once in the middle of a warzone.

Base of Operations: Gryphon Roost Fortress upon Aerie Prime.

Fleet Assets: 2 Battle Barges( The Stormclaw and Aerie's Pride) 6 Strike Cruisers ( The Lancer, Paladin's Hammer, Avenging Shield, The Retribution, The Claymore and The Last Piper) along with multiple Escort class frigates to ensure the safety of the ships carrying the Chapter.

 

Founding Chapter and Geneseed: Imperial Fists, the Knights Gryphon have inherited both the flaws with the Imperial Fists Geneseed the missing Betcher's Gland and the missing Sus-an Membrane but no other known flaws.

Chapter Founding timeline: 23rd founding believed to be formed in reaction to the Black Crusade at the end of M37.

 

Chapter History

 

Knight Gryphon Terminator armor

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e179/Stormchh/spacemarineKnigthGryphonTerminator.jpg

 

"The Knights Gryphon character is forged in granite of the highlands. That is no timid reed easily shaken by the wind." 9th Company Knight Captain Thain Syme to his Scout Squads during the Chapters first encounter with a Beil-Tan Swordwind

 

Formed as a Defender Chapter to patrol and protect the areas around the Segmentum Tempestus from Ork Waaaghs that stumble out of the heavy infested plants of the Segmentum Tempestus. The chapter was placed on patrol orders near the Veiled Region and Segmentum Tempestus to place pressure on the Beil Tan Swordwind army from entering and threatening Imperium colonies and citizens. They also scour planets for any left over splinters of Hive Fleet Leviathan.

 

The Chapter dives into its duties as a one of the chapters that defends the out reaches of the imperium with a zeal only short of the venerable Black Templars. Though they are a young chapter they are always on watch to find and destroy any incoming threats to the Imperium and it's rim worlds. They have excelled at breaking the backs of many invasions and sieges on Imperium planets and have currently found and stopped 3 Swordwinds of the Beil-Tan craftworld. Some have come to say that even the unwavering Beil-Tan have come to see the Knights Gryphon as a respected foe and ally against the Ork in the area and have come to "help" the Knights Gryphon utterly destroy many Ork forces before they can become a Waagh before they vanish back into the vastness of space.

 

Chapter Homeworld and Culture

 

2nd Company Devastator Sergeant

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Head Chaplain Kay Maccaul: "We cannot banish dangers, but we can banish fears. We must not demean life by standing in awe of death. "

 

The planet of Aerie Prime is a small world that holds a rich and bountiful population for the Knights Gryphon to recruit from. The planet consists of one large continent that is divided into the Highlands and Lowlands. The Knights Gryphon recruit from the mighty clans of the Highlands due to their hearty lifestyles and warrior traditions. They make fine additions to the companies not only for their advanced warrior ways but also in their loyalty to their clans and to their planet. The Knights Gryphon pride themselves on recruiting not only the strongest warriors from the many clans but also the most honorable as well. Unlike some chapters the Knight Captains of the Battle Companies are the ones that observe the Clansmen during battle and every day life. They are the ones that pick and chose which ones to recruit for their Battle Companies based on the standards that each companies have. They are in firm belief that not all recruits fit all Battle Companies this is why the recruitment is done by the Captains not Chaplains or Apothercaries. This also leads into the fact that the Knights Gryphon have no 10th company reserved for recruits and scouts. When the recruits are finally chosen by the Captains they are placed directly into the Battle Companies where they begin their training with the Marines they will soon fight and die with as long as they pass the standards, training and enhancements applied to them to make them into full fledged Marines. If a recruit is not accepted into the Battle Companies he is either placed in the Chapter in a support manner or they are placed back with their clan to further along the advancement of the planet and to pass on their knowledge to their fellow clansmen and their children to create stronger recruits in the future for the Chapter.

 

The Knights Gryphon hold strong to their faith and devotion to the Imperium and the Emperor but they cling just as tight to their culture and planet. They hold clan games every two years for not only their own but a few other chapters. The Ultramarines, Black Templars and Imperial Fists are known to send teams to join in on the games to try and prove their worth to the Knights Gryphon and to gain honor for their Chapters. The Space Wolves will be sending a team on the next playing of the games so says the rumor train. The Chapter gains it's name from the Knight based society on Aerie Prime along with the Gryphon which is highly symbolized along with other mythical creatures on the planet. The Gryphon is seen as a proud and powerful creature that streaks down from the mountains of the highlands to secure it's prey and consume it at it's roost that will always defend it's pride and self at all costs.

 

The Knights Gryphon are known to march into battle with the sound of the Pipes and Drums and the vast majority of the chapter are either skilled in a set of drums or in the bagpipes. They play many marches, as they charge into battle or during non battle time periods, threw the speakers of vehicles and even threw their suits. Most marines place a shield, close to what the Grey Knights have upon their armor, on their right shoulder or built into Bolt pistols, Bolters or Stormbolters that has their clan tartan panted on the upper left side of the shield, the Chapter Symbol on the upper right and the Chapter Tartan ( a chess board of white and yellow squares) on the lower half of the shield. Some marines also place the yellow and white chess board pattern on their lower left leg armor. The Chapter also holds strong to their Knightly ways and history. They flat out refuse to use Chain weapons and will only use Power Swords or Power Claymores which are not as powerful as a Relic Blade but there a few within the chapters Vanguard 1st Company Squads, in combat. A few will use other melee weapon types ( Lightning Claws, Thunder Hammers and other types) but 80% of the chapter will only use power bladed weapons. Give they have had many fights with the Beil-Tan they have created a Power Lance weapon which the Marines of the 10th Company use to spear down the enemies of the Imperium as they fly over the battle field on land speeders.

 

Chapter Organization

 

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The Knights Gryphon are not organized like a normal chapter and have a few variations with in their make up that are frowned upon by most of the rigid chapters that adhere to the Codex no matter what. But no matter how frowned upon it is the tactics are working as the Chapter command has put forth to shocking effect upon the enemies that are put in front of the Knights.

 

Unlike most chapters the Knights have no 10th company for recruits and scouts. All recruits are placed directly with their Battle company that they are chosen for by the current Knight Captain. Each Battle Company are self sustained in combat, logistics and in the recruitment and evolution of the recruits into full fledged marines. This creates an even larger bond between the new recruits and their battle company and chapter in the long run.

 

The 9th Company of the Knights Gryphon is not a support company like most chapters. They are known as the Light Foot and they are a fully organized scout marine company but they take it to a higher level of scouting. All of the Knights Gryphon scout marines are full fledged marines including their power armor unlike most scouts where they are not rewarded a set of Mk 7 armor until they are placed with in a battle company or support company. With this increased protection along with the mindset of a scout and the advanced set of cameoline in their Camo-cloaks makes for a very deadly fighting force that can find the enemy report on them or flat out engage the enemy and stick them in place so the larger fighting squads can have time to move and engage the enemy. 9th company has 10 squads and they are split up between the first 5 companies, 2 squads per battle company.

 

Along with the 9th Company the Knights Gryphon deploy another unique company the 10th referred to as the Light Horse which is a company fully built around landspeeders and fast attack tactics. Current make up up of the Light Horse is as follows. All command staff of the current Knight Captain are fully trained in operating both the pilot position and gunner position in all landspeeder variants.

 

• 10 Land Speeder Tempest class
  
• 15 Land Speeder Typhoon class
  
• 10 Land Speeder Storm class
  
• 10 Land Speeder Tornado class
  
• 5 Land Speeder Heavy Horse class
  

 

Knights Gryphon Heavy Horse variant of the land speeder are reserved for the command staff of the Light Horse company. These variants come with an under slung Assault Cannon and a 3rd member in a mounted turret heavy bolter on the back of the Land Speeder these are on average a lot slower than the other Land Speeder variants but they provide a stronger platform for the command staff to direct the company in battle. All the drivers of the Light Horse company are fully trained in the use of a Power Lance which they use to spear down enemies as they roar past on the battle field. It is currently said the Knights Gryphon are currently in talks with the Dark Angels to secure an in depth look at the Jetbike that the Master of the Ravenwing uses in battle to recreate it for both chapters in the future.

 

Knights Gryphon 1st Company (Cavaliers)- Veteran Company which uses the Terminator Armor of the chapter to full effect upon the battlefield. They have even created and employed a smaller version of the Typhoon missile launcher system that they have placed on some of their terminator armor to give them more punch at longer ranges since the chapter focus on long ranged combat for the most part. This company also uses the Land Raiders of the chapter and focus on the Helios, Prometheus and Crusader variants of the original land raider chassis.

 

• Command Squad and Staff ( Paladin of Aerie's Honor Guard the Claymores of Aerie)
  
• 3 Vanguard Assault 5 man squads
  
• 5 Sternguard Tactical 5 man squads
  
• 3 Close Combat Terminator 5 man squads
  
• 4 Tactical Terminator 5 man squads
  
• 4 Veteran Devastator 5 man squads
  

 

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e179/Stormchh/spacemarineKnightsGryphonVanguard.jpg

 

This company is also commanded of the current Paladin of Aerie of the chapter. The Paladin of Aerie are not only trained to the fullest level of being a battle field commander by the master of the chapter but also in the ways of the battle chaplains of the chapter as well. The Paladin of Aerie wields one of the only known relics in the chapter and it is a massive 2 handed Relic Blade named "Might of the Alliance" which he wields to deadly effect upon the field of battle.

 

Knights Gryphon 2nd-5th companies ( Templars, Errents, Grail Knights and Crusaders ) are the chapters battle companies that are organized in a slightly different way than other chapters. Along with the different squad amounts the Knights Gryphon are known to field a large amount of Whirlwinds in battle adding to their long range power.

 

• Command Squad and Staff
  
• 4 Tactical 10 man squads
  
• 2 Assault 10 man squads
  
• 4 Devastator 10 man squads
  

 

Support

 

• 3 to 5 Dreadnaughts ( currently also using a smaller version the typhoon missile launcher system to provide more long range punch for the chapter on some of it's dreadnaughts)
  
• Whirlwind Tanks
  
• Predator Tanks
  
• Rhino and Razorback Tanks
  

 

Knights Gryphon 6th-8th companies ( Marshals, Lancers and Dragoons ) organized as support companies filling out with Tactical squads (Marshals) Assault squads (Lancers) and Devastator squads (Dragoons)

 

Combat Doctrine

"Now order the ranks, and fling wide the banners, for our souls are the Emperor's and our bodies the Chapter's, and our swords for Aerie Prime and for the Imperium!" By Chapter Master Aerion Mcdonald before the chapter engaged a massive Ork force on the planet of Zemtal before it could jump off planet

 

Knights Gryphon Veteran Sergeant

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The Knights Gryphon lean on a heavy ranged combat doctrine. They use the advanced scouts to find and report on the enemies position and strengths. Unless faced with a far larger force the scouts engage and stick the enemy in place to allow for the battle companies of the chapter to move into position to crush the enemy with a firestorm upon their heads. They use a high amount of drop pod assaults, Thunderhawk gunship assaults and Rhinos/Razorbacks to move their tactical and devastator squads on to the field of battle to maximize damage done to the enemy before they have time to react and find the scout squads. Since the chapter employs not only normal Typhoon missile systems but smaller variations on Terminators and Dreadnaughts the enemy faced off with the Knights are in for a very long day with a constant barrage of missiles upon their heads.

 

This was used to greatness effect on the planet of Solstice when the Knights came to the call of the planetary Government about Eldar raiding parties from the Beil-Tan craftworld. The Knights deployed the 2nd and 4th Companies to the planet along with the 10th Company. The advanced scouts engaged the Eldar task force at the mouth of a wide valley sticking them in place. The Light Horse followed up with a rear attack upon the Eldar column and the battle companies combat dropped down on both sides of the valley and deployed their whirlwinds via Thunderhawks and crushed an Eldar force 2 times their size in a matter of hours. The Eldar finally pushed threw the front of the valley and escaped off planet.

 

The Knights respect greatly the Codex that the Primarch of the Ultramarines wrote about how Chapters are supposed to be organized. They are so far off it because the Chapter Master and Command believe that Chapters will have to evolve as a fighting force sooner than later due to the ever changing and under handed tactics of the enemies of the Imperium and threw tough defeats. There focus upon Scout marines and Landspeeders come from many long days chasing and fighting the Eldar forces. "Fight as the enemy does, hold them in place and rain fire on their heads." is a common phrase used by many marine sergeants in the Knights Gryphon. The Knights focus so heavy on ranged squads and long ranged engagement tactics from their experiences with Orks and Tyranids due to the "Wave" or "Zerg" tactics that these enemies employ to over whelm their intended targets. The Knights counter with a simple phrase " Put up a wall of fire and our assaults will get bored and pick up Heavy Bolters one day!" They also feel as if the recruitment practices of most Chapters are flawed and by directly placing their recruits into the Battle Companies they will be with from day one as a Marine they will be more prepared when things roll down hill as they say. Most of this comes from the fact that the Chapter is so young and they are a very proud chapter that will find anyway to crush the enemies of man even by going against what has been written by the eldest of the chapters.

 

Famous Characters

 

• Aerion "Gryphonclaw" Mcdonald (Current Chapter Master)
  
• Kay Gilcrest (Current Paladin of Aerie) 1st Company Knight Captain
  
• Richard Gordon (Commander of the Watch) 2nd Company Knight Captain
  
• Thain Syme (Commander of the Light Foot) 9th Company Knight Captain
  
• Morgan Hastings ( Commander of the Light Horse) 10th Company Knight Captain
  
• Kay Maccaul ( Chapter Head Chaplain and trainer of the Paladin of Aerie)
  

 

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e179/Stormchh/spacemarineKnightGryphonVeteranMari.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e179/Stormchh/spacemarineKnightGryphonAssaultMari.jpg

[Espada Azul]

Holy image-filled post, Liber! I appreciate the attention to detail, but you don't have to post variations of your Chapter's color scheme for its squads. Some of us here don't have full DSL connections. Often the colors of your basic Tactical trooper will suffice (and indeed, it's the image often used by Phil Sibbering for the 1000-Chapter project).

 

I'll leave either Octavulg or other senior Liberites to focus on the detailed critiquing. I have to ask though... You mentioned early on that your Chapter is fleet-based, yet immediately above it there's a home-world listed. A truly fleet-based Chapter would have no home-world, and would be completely reliant on its ships for everything except recruiting and fleet maintenance (the assumption is its done by friendly forge-worlds or segmentum dockyards).

 

Some answers will also have to be provided about the divergent Chapter Structure. How did they become that way? Why did they become that way?

[Gryphonclaw]

Thank you for the comment first off. So a Fleet based chapter can not use a home world for recruitment? In my minds eye they return to said home planet when recruitment becomes an issue either due to a major loss in marines threw battle or when the population turns out a new crop of matured males. Or did I misread about what fleet chapters do for recruitment. Was late when I read up on it.

 

I'll get that written up and added about why they are so far off the Codex. Thanks again!

[Gryphonclaw]

Alright I have added in why my Marines are such newbs and not following the Codex.

[Espada Azul]

I think it's something that's easy to misunderstand. A fleet-based Chapter is just that -- fleet based. It does not have a single planet where it draws recruits, and (it is assumed) draw their initiates from whatever world they happened to fancy when they require new blood. Such planets are often located close or on the route the Chapter fleet routinely plies, and may have had previous history with the Chapter; for example the Black Templars leave Chapter Keeps on planets where they had once drawn initiates from, and sometimes return to those worlds, but their visits are sometimes take hundreds of years in between.

 

However, on the onset you mentioned drawing from a single planet. That means your Chapter has a home-world, in the same way that Baal is the home world of the Blood Angels and Macragge is the home world of the Ultramarines, and as such has a stable pool to draw recruits from. A Chapter may be spread across the galaxy, but it's a place they can always return to (you can refer to the Galaxy Map I have linked in my signature).

[Gryphonclaw]

Alright that makes more sense guess my chapter isn't a fleet based chapter. Thanks again for the input and you said something about 1000 chapters thread or something how would one find that?

[Gryphonclaw]

Alright then adjusted once again. Thank you very much for the input, it is very needed from the looks of things but this is something I have always wanted to do.

[Espada Azul]

Oh, my comments are minor. Just you wait until the other senior or active Liberites like Octavulg, Ferrata, and Ace Debonair drop by... Only then will the serious critiques begin. Don't take anything they say the wrong way -- they seriously want to help you conceptualize a Chapter that is both characterful and cool, yet fits within the background of the Warhammer 40000 universe.

 

Phil Sibbering's 1000 Space Marine Chapter Project is compiled here. Details on it can be found here in the Amicus section too. The visual index is useful in checking whether or not some other player already chose your Chapter's colors or name.

[Gryphonclaw]

haha I am sure they will rip my attempt to pieces! Thanks for the info I'll have to check that out.

[Espada Azul]

Also regarding Fleet strength. I have to say that it's unusual, given how you've made a point that each Company is almost an independent entity. For example you only have a single Battle Barge, and only two Strike Cruisers, whereas a normal Chapter would have at least two Barges (three-Company capacity) and three times the amount of Strike Cruisers (one-Company capacity).

 

Why you might ask? Because of deployment capability, or rather the lack of it; your fleet composition seems to be more suited to ship actions with its trio of Nova-class frigates, instead of being designed around getting Marines to a war-torn planet. One would have expected, at least, a single Strike Cruiser permanently attached to each of the active Battle Companies.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

other senior Liberites to focus on the detailed critiquing

 

*Puffs chest and steps up to the plate*

 

:P

 

Chapter Battle Cry: "Difficulties be damned! Clear the Way!"

 

This is a bit overlong and unwieldy. While charging towards an Ork mob you're really going to start with 'difficulties be damned'?

 

Chapter Homeworld: Aerie Prime (uncatalogued) Fuedal World located in the Segmentum Tempestus . The Chapter only returns when time permits for it's annual games but they have held them on different planets and once in the middle of a warzone.

 

The time permitting in an era of unceasing warfare for a chapter of genetically engineered killing machines with no other purpose in life than to fight the never ending wars of the Imperium should be virtually nil, to be quite honest. Games? If it's chapter tradition why not simply host them wherever they are as you infer in your last sentence rather than going home.

 

 

Formed as a Defender Chapter to patrol and protect the areas around the Segmentum Tempestus from Ork Waaaghs that stumble out of the heavy infested plants of the Segmentum Tempestus.

 

The entire segmentum? That's a hell of a lot of worlds for one chapter to defend, against how many Ork Waagh!'s at any one time? What about the other chapters and Imperial defences in the Segmentum? Chapters are usually created to take care of a far smaller region of space than one of the largest chunks of space known to man.

 

The chapter was placed on patrol orders near the Veiled Region and Segmentum Tempestus to place pressure on the Beil Tan Swordwind army from entering and threatening Imperium colonies and citizens.

 

Hold on, how many patrols are you running here for a 1000 marine chapter? Patrols across an entire segmentum and then more concentrated patrols along a certain corridor as well? Also it's the Beil Tan Craftworld, the Swordwind is just their name for their own forces. They aren't known as 'armies' either so far as I know.

 

How did the Imperium know there was a Biel Tan Swordwind in that area that was threatening the Imperial assets there? The Eldar are extremely low in number and pick their targets well. The Biel Tan might be the most aggressive of the remaining Eldar Craftworlds but I doubt they would simply rampage around like ordinary raiders and pirates when there are far more vulnerable and valuable targets to persue.

 

The Chapter dives into its duties as a one of the chapters that defends the out reaches of the imperium with a zeal only short of the venerable Black Templars.

 

While I understand what you're trying to say, most loyalist chapters are very zealous in their duties. The Black Templars stand out because they are the raging zealots of the Imperial Creed. They are stand out because of their utter fanatacism even when compared to other chapters, which makes your chapter, what, more zealous than other chapters... why? So far as I can tell it adds nothing.

 

Though they are a young chapter they are always on watch to find and destroy any incoming threats to the Imperium and it's rim worlds.

 

Age has nothing to do with it. If these are their assigned duties and mission, why wouldn't they always be on watch? Just as every single chapter in the Imperium is always on watch for their enemies.

 

They have excelled at breaking the backs of many invasions and sieges on Imperium planets and have currently found and stopped 3 Swordwinds of the Beil-Tan craftworld.

 

Just how did they break the backs of three Swordwinds as a young, untested chapter when the Biel (beil, biel, whatever) Tan swordwinds are some of the best Eldar fighting forces to grace the galaxy? The Eldar are typically one of the only forces who can, in fluff terms, consistently outperform the Space Marines.

 

The Biel Tan have been fighting against the Imperium and everyone else for far long than your chapter has been around and as a new chapter they would be mincemeat to my mind.

 

Some have come to say that even the unwavering Beil-Tan have come to see the Knights Gryphon as a respected foe and ally against the Ork in the area and have come to "help" the Knights Gryphon utterly destroy many Ork forces before they can become a Waagh before they vanish back into the vastness of space.

 

Rubbish. The Biel Tan, as far as I'm aware, are most aggressive towards humanity because they see them as primitive userpers of the Eldar's once great empire. They hate humanity and actively work towards the Imperium's destruction. Why would they count your chapter as an ally? Also who would dare to insinuate a foul Xenos race was an ally of an Astartes Chapter like the Gryphons? They would be shot out of hand for the mere thought of such an alliance.

 

Xenos must be destroyed, that is all there is. They might set apart their differences for long enough to kill a more barbaric or destructive enemy such as the Orks or Chaos, but straight afterwards they would go back to butchering each other, that's if they don't betray one another during the initial battle anyway.

 

The name dropping in that section is a bit strong, and it comes across more like 'I like the Biel Tan and my marines are going to be buddies with them' rather than an actual occurrence likely to happen. Also, this section reveals nothing about who the chapter is, what their character is and just what makes them unique apart from treating with foul xenos, which doesn't really work for me.

 

 

Now with the next section you have again started with a quote that is a little bit nonsensical. I think I know what you're trying to say but it doesn't come across well, just as the last one didn't either. I think you need to reword them.

 

They make fine additions to the companies not only for their advanced warrior ways but also in their loyalty to their clans and to their planet

 

Advanced warrior ways? Like what?

 

Just about all Chapters with a homeworld are loyal to their people to a greater or lesser extent. What makes your marines different?

 

The Knights Gryphon pride themselves on recruiting not only the strongest warriors from the many clans but also the most honorable as well. Unlike some chapters the Knight Captains of the Battle Companies are the ones that observe the Clansmen during battle and every day life.

 

You do realize that the prime recruitment age for people to become Astartes is between, what, twelve and fourteen don't you? Just how many of these pre-teen warriors are there in the Highlands?

 

They are in firm belief that not all recruits fit all Battle Companies this is why the recruitment is done by the Captains not Chaplains or Apothercaries.

 

So the battle companies captains frequently abandon their men to return to the homeworld to select new recruits? The reason there is a 10th company and that the Apothacaries pick them is because it's part of their purpose. The Apothacaries are needed to determine whether a potential recruit is physically and (after more testing I'd wager) genetically compatible with the chapters geneseed.

 

If a recruit is not accepted into the Battle Companies he is either placed in the Chapter in a support manner or they are placed back with their clan to further along the advancement of the planet and to pass on their knowledge to their fellow clansmen and their children to create stronger recruits in the future for the Chapter.

 

If a recruit isn't suitable or fails, he typically either dies, (in some cases goes insane) or get's lobotomized and turned into a servitor. Some enter into service as a chapter serf. The physical and mental alterations are too extreme for any less extreme results really.

 

 

They hold clan games every two years for not only their own but a few other chapters. The Ultramarines, Black Templars and Imperial Fists are known to send teams to join in on the games to try and prove their worth to the Knights Gryphon and to gain honor for their Chapters. The Space Wolves will be sending a team on the next playing of the games so says the rumor train.

 

Name dropping, name dropping, name dropping. This is ridiculous.

 

 

 

Unfortunately my time here is very limited as I have to leave for work shortly so I'll summarize a couple of things.

 

You recruit from the highlands, have clan games and go to battle with pipes and drums, all good Scottish influence. Then you say you have a knight-based society? They don't really gel too well. The Scots were barbaric, fearsome and extremely independent warriors, fighting mostly in a guerrilla campaign against the English for many years. Knights are reserved, religious zealots in heavy armour who fight for the church or religious organization.

 

 

You keep consistently name dropping other chapters of legend, all first founding, and other famous enemies into your IA for reasons that I can only surmise as to make your chapter more interesting and more prestigious in the 40k universe. It does neither as it is both grating and totally unbelievable.

 

There is nothing unique or interesting here. What is their character? Who or what makes them who they are? What has their history taught them? What values and character traits does their homeworld impart on them?

 

 

 

If this hasn't had any other responses before I get back I'll continue, though I think someone else will be picking up where I leave off before long.

[Gryphonclaw]

Hmm well then. Thanks for the destruction, time to start over. I love your brutal attack though. Always good to show someone new to the community that they lowest of the low and there are clear "rulers" of this forum though but ya I'll start over with your info given hopefully I can make a chapter worthy of the all mighty.

 

<insert witty comment here>

[RagingGriffon]

Sarcasm? This isn't a dominance thing, it is "tough love." We actually want people to succeed. Would you rather everyone be all flowers then you submit and it gets rejected? Trust me, that feels worse than going through these critiques. I'm not even in the "accepted" club yet, but I am still willing to give adivce. Speaking of, I will hit this up in a couple of hours. You are at least showing respect for the forum by following the formats. Now it is time to get to work.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

My reference to what Espada said about forum seniority at the start was a joke, by the way. There is no real seniority, only people who have been here for long enough to have seen a lot of common mistakes crop up.

 

If you thought I seriously carried myself as anything even relating to 'senior' when there are those around like Ferrus Manus, Octavulg, Ace Debonair, Ferrata and Nine-Breaker about, you'd be seriously mistaken.

 

Hmm well then. Thanks for the destruction, time to start over. I love your brutal attack though. Always good to show someone new to the community that they lowest of the low and there are clear "rulers" of this forum though but ya I'll start over with your info given hopefully I can make a chapter worthy of the all mighty.

 

Well all I can say is tough break if that's how you feel. Plenty of people post here and get their work torn to shreds regularly, myself included. Yes RG is right, it is tough love, I would rather see you succeed through hard work than end up with something totally ridiculous.

 

Also he was referring to the B&C Librarium, which is where all accepted work goes. I still haven't gotten an article in yet, though that's more down to lack of writing discipline on my part, but that's neither here nor there.

 

The problem is, really, that a lot of your issues could have been solved by a close inspection of the various DIY guides in the Liber, the Guide to DIYing stickied at the top of the forum and the others, such as the Octaguide.

 

Why did my post come off a lot more brutal than usual? No time to pad it out with suggestions or anything else. Sure it was blunt and to the point but at least I was honest. If you post on the Liber you are not posting to get public acclaim (nor should you). Liber is quality control and quality control always tests your limits.

 

Your sarcasm is not appreciated. I and anyone else attempting to help by giving some constructive criticism for your work take time out of their day and their own projects to tell you what they think of yours. If I post something here you are more than welcome to give me your honest to goodness opinion of what I have written and I don't expect anything less.

 

All that said the Liber is a lot softer than it used to be, so far as I can remember. I blame Ace Debonair. :P

[Ferrus Manus]

If you thought I seriously carried myself as anything even relating to 'senior' when there are those around like Ferrus Manus, Octavulg, Ace Debonair, Ferrata and Nine-Breaker about, you'd be seriously mistaken.

Yay me! ;)

 

All that said the Liber is a lot softer than it used to be, so far as I can remember. I blame Ace Debonair.

Personally I blame health and safety for the decline of tough love - but hey.

 

But anyway, back on topic - Gryphonclaw, whilst GHY's comments may seem harsh they are intended in the right way. Every person who wanders these halls - commonly known as 'Liberites' by the way - are generally helpful, and give their comments to help you improve your Chapter. That and about 99.9% of them (me included) have all posted an idea which has been critiqued and debated, and 99.9% of the time they turn out good because of this.

 

Trust me, stick around for a while - suffer a few harsh but well intended comments and you'll end up with something good :D

[Espada Azul]

Oh yes, this criticism is nothing compared to what some of us had to go through, even just a year or so ago.

 

If you're, as we say here in the Philippines, onion-skinned (easily effected), you'll only end up angry because Criticism in Liber can and WILL be harsh, because a lot of us have seen frankly stupid ideas in our time here (some of them our own!), and we wouldn't want them repeated in other people's work.

 

So I suggest taking a deep breath, read the critiques, do research on the Liber resources, and see what can be done to make your Chapter better.

[Gryphonclaw]

O the tough love and hard approach is a good thing, 9 years of military behind me so I have had plenty of time to do that and experience. But at the same time not going to take it lying down, I'll get my points. Keep it coming, I'm currently scrapping this idea and going back to basics have much to work on. This simply told me that I wrote up a pile of #@*( that needs much love to be right and it's going to be judged openly and often.

 

Should I just mass edit this pile out and leave it as this point or should I write up a new one?

[RagingGriffon]

Awesome, military experience (currently in myself)!

 

Anyways, I say edit. No need to start a new thread.

 

Things I like:

 

- Created to check the Beil-Tan (this is a concrete reason they were created)

- The first paragraph of Combat Doctrine

 

What I don't like:

- Name dropping

- The games they play

- The psuedo friendship you got going on with the Beil-Tan

 

Maximize your strengths, minimize your weaknesses.

[Espada Azul]

I think one of the major problems in a first DIY outing is that one wants to make their Chapter 'cool', and stand out from the other 1000-odd Loyalist Chapters out there. The thing is, this often results in lumping in a lot of ideas that don't really segue well with the setting of Warhammer 40000, or at least what we know so far about it. This is why many of us cannot stress enough how important the DIY Guide is as a writing resource, as it points out many of the observations (and common mistakes!) Liber has had in its history.

 

Many of the ideas you've presented have promise. The independent Company/Specialist Dichotomy idea isn't unique on its own -- the Iron Hands have their Clan Companies, while the Space Wolves have their Great Companies -- so maybe you can explore how such a Divergence occurred.

 

There is the question of Character of course. In our experience Cool Stuff =/= Character. I mean, for example my Azure Blades started in concept as a Codex Chapter with a Swordsman theme. Pretty bland if I say so myself. Then it turned into a Codex Chapter with a Sword theme that had for some reason specialized in Guerrilla tactics. I blame 4th Edition Traits for that one (I used Flesh Over Steel and See But Not Be Seen).

 

See the disjoint there? I wanted something 'cool', but the 'theme' or 'character' was very much lacking.