What's the best Heavy Support Choice!

[Bergelmir]

Hail Brothers,

 

Im in a quest to build an all-comers list and I'm wondering what would be the best heavy support choice for the army I'm intending to build with the miniatures I currently own. I'm currently strapped for cash and I can only buy maybe up to 40GBP of products and I don't really feel like buying any more infantry aka Long Fangs. What should I get? Help a new Pup out!

 

HQ:

1. Logan Grimnar (275)

2. Njal Stormcaller (245)

3. Canis Wolfborn (205; 2 Fenrisian wolves)

 

Elite:

1. Wolf Guard Pack Leaders

a. 43; Combi-melta, Power Fist att to GH1

b. 43; Combi-melta, Power Fist att to GH2

c. 36; Combi-melta, Wolf Claw att to GH3

 

2. 5 x Wolf Scouts (130; MotW, 2 power weapon, meltagun)

3. 5 x Wolf Guard Terminators (215; 4 power fists, 1 frost blade)

4. Dreadnaught (105; assault cannon, heavy flamer)

5. Lone Wolf (110; Thunder hammer, Storm shield, 2 Fenrisian wolves)

 

Troops:

1. 10x Grey Hunters (220; 2 meltaguns, plasma pistol, power fist, wolf standard, MotW)

2. 10 x Grey Hunters (220; 2 meltaguns, plasma pistol, power fist, wolf standard, MotW)

3. 10 x Grey Hunters (220; 2 meltaguns, plasma pistol, power fist, wolf standard, MotW)

 

Transports:

1. Rhino (35)

2. Rhino (35)

3. Drop Pod (35)

[the jeske]

I don't really feel like buying any more infantry aka Long Fangs.

tough luck then as long fangs are the best hvy support SW have.

[Frostwulf]

Long fangs with 5 missle launchers really are better and more efficient then any vehicle

[mitchell93]

Long fangs with 5 missle launchers really are better and more efficient then any vehicle

 

however a vindicator will draw far more fire power due to the sheer "omg s 10 ap 1 pie plate" factor

[CainTheHunter]

Predator Destructor is quite good, being my second choice after the Long Fangs.

[Blarmb]

Well, Long Fangs are by the most flexible choice. Since you're not considering those an options it's best to plug whatever the biggest weakness in your list is. I see lots of melta, power weapons, some plasma. This means you've got pretty good coverage against the beefy stuff. I'd suggest either AC/HB predators, or Whirlwinds. They're both the same price (85 points) and both fill a similar role. The whirlwind is slightly more focused but less flexible. Something to consider is you've got a low vehicle count, so predators not might have much place to hide. You can stick a WW behind terrain, and give them a lot of protection if you can get them out of LOS. That said, the Predator does pack an Autocannon, which is one of my favorite weapons. It's higher power and larger number of shots mean you'll also be able to take out light vehicles with it. Even HBs can reliably produce glances on AV10 which is more than can be said about the WWs single S5 shot.

[Wolfsrage]

Wanted to point out that you can't actually fit 11 models into Rhinos or Drop Pods. You're going to have to drop the 2nd Melta on all those Grey Hunter squads.

[Hotspur]

I have to agree; LFs are probably our best heavy support choice, other than the obvious Land Raiders.

 

If you're not wanting LFs or LRs, I would go with a predator. If you take a pred, though, make sure you make it a tri-las or a dakka-pred. I don't recommend hybrid setups on the preds b/c it diminishes their overall effectiveness. If you can find the points to field one of both, you'll be in a good position.

 

Whirlwinds also come in handy, especially against horde armies like the tyranids. Vindicators are great b/c of their big guns; however, at 24", their reach is somewhat short.

 

If you're not taking LFs or LRs, I would recommend the preds b/c they seem to be the most versatile.

[NovaScotius]

If you're not wanting LFs or LRs, I would go with a predator. If you take a pred, though, make sure you make it a tri-las or a dakka-pred. I don't recommend hybrid setups on the preds b/c it diminishes their overall effectiveness. If you can find the points to field one of both, you'll be in a good position.

 

Sorry Hotspur, but I couldn't disagree more on this point.

 

I firmly believe that the AutoLas Predator (Autocannon and sponson Las-Cannons) is the most effective 'all round' set up for a Predator in my opinion. It allows you to threaten anything from heavy infantry (such as Space Marines) all the way up to medium level armour (Armour 12) - It will not reliably kill Armour 13/14, but then neither will a Tri-Las Predator, for that, you're looking at Melta Guns and Chain Fists. This tank should be combating enemy medium tanks and transports - With the vehicle damage charts the way they are in this edition, long range anti-tank is far less effective than it has been previously.

 

The so-called 'Dakka Pred' (Autocannon and sponson Heavy Bolters) appears to be a very good variant on paper, and I can't comment too much on it as I've not run one for quite some time, and have never run one as part of a Space Wolf list. Though on that point, it's role seems somewhat mitigated in an army that excels at taking on hordes, and the Heavy Support slot could probably be better spent elsewhere.

 

The 'Predator Annihilator' or 'Tri-Las' variant (Twin-Linked Las-Cannon and sponson Las-Cannons) looks shockingly overpriced to me. You are paying an extortionate amount of points to get a Twin-Linked Las-Cannon which means the tank can only effectively engage one type of target. Space Wolves have good Ballistic Skill anyway, meaning you are paying a considerable premium for Twin-Linking that shot. Yes, the tank will be more focussed in its role, but this lessens the versatility to which you allude at the end of your post.

 

Again, this is only my opinion, but given the choice, I'd go AutoLas every time.

[Logan230]

Again, this is only my opinion, but given the choice, I'd go AutoLas every time.

 

I have found that the AutoLas only has a place in games around 1k where the amount and type of armor is small, and AV will probably less than 13, unless theres a tau player there. but higher than that, I find that the Auto cannon does not have a home because the AP is too high to go through marines well and my 2k list goes through armor pretty well considering i use 2 Trilas. my anti-heavy infantry is in the form of 5 missile LF's and 2 LSTs firing a total of 7 AP3 missiles if i so choose.

[Godhead]

I find myself disappointed in my longfangs every time I field them. It seems to never fail that after deployment, my lanes of fire go to poop. I end up spending a turn or two moving losing precious turns of fire. They also seem to stick out like a sore thumb. When everything else is mech'd and has the ability to move much quicker, or just able to move and fire, the long fangs end up being the odd man out.

 

I'm going to try 3 preds as Heavy support. If anyone else has experience running 3 dakka preds I'd love to hear about it.

[Xeenos]

Not a heavy support option here.. but why get Canis if your not going to get a nice 15 man pack of wolves for him to flank with? I think 15 wolves only costs you like 90 points, and its a very nice horde killing group with their bonus ini from Canis's special.\

 

As for the heavy support, perhaps if you told people what you had to work with, it would be easier?

 

I like the list, though! Way i picture it in my head is 2 (or three of you can get another Rhino!) rushing up the mid, Canis, LW and Dred pushing a flank, Terminators + Scouts keeping the lines busy so the rhino's dont eat it turn one.

 

With that tactic in mind, Vindicators might work nicly to rush up alongside your Rhinos. If you had 2 or 3 of them, it really forces your oppenent to pick his targets.. does he shoot the Terminators in the middle of his army? Does he shoot Canis/dred/LW flanking force, does he shoot the rhinos so your troops dont overrun him.. or does he shoot the Vindicators so they dont pie plate him off the map? Then your scouts sneak up behind him! Anything besides a Vindicator likly wont make him worry as much. If its a HB/AC pred? Eh.. that wont kill many figures.. Whirlwind? Again, dont think it would kill many.. 3 s10 ap1 pie's Ya.. now thats really something he has to worry about, giving your troops a free ride all the way to the enemy!

[MaleOpener]

Hail Brothers,

 

Im in a quest to build an all-comers list and I'm wondering what would be the best heavy support choice for the army I'm intending to build with the miniatures I currently own. I'm currently strapped for cash and I can only buy maybe up to 40GBP of products and I don't really feel like buying any more infantry aka Long Fangs. What should I get? Help a new Pup out!

 

HQ:

1. Logan Grimnar (275)

2. Njal Stormcaller (245)

3. Canis Wolfborn (205; 2 Fenrisian wolves)

 

Elite:

1. Wolf Guard Pack Leaders

a. 43; Combi-melta, Power Fist att to GH1

b. 43; Combi-melta, Power Fist att to GH2

c. 36; Combi-melta, Wolf Claw att to GH3

 

2. 5 x Wolf Scouts (130; MotW, 2 power weapon, meltagun)

3. 5 x Wolf Guard Terminators (215; 4 power fists, 1 frost blade)

4. Dreadnaught (105; assault cannon, heavy flamer)

5. Lone Wolf (110; Thunder hammer, Storm shield, 2 Fenrisian wolves)

 

Troops:

1. 10x Grey Hunters (220; 2 meltaguns, plasma pistol, power fist, wolf standard, MotW)

2. 10 x Grey Hunters (220; 2 meltaguns, plasma pistol, power fist, wolf standard, MotW)

3. 10 x Grey Hunters (220; 2 meltaguns, plasma pistol, power fist, wolf standard, MotW)

 

Transports:

1. Rhino (35)

2. Rhino (35)

3. Drop Pod (35)

 

 

Three characters? Its a point sink if you're not playing at least 2500. Njal should always be in his runic TDA, and Canis should be placed in a pack of fenrisian wolves since he's not immune to "instant death".

 

Your WG, which will be attached to your GH packs, won't be able to fit into the transports. If you want the WG there, you'll have to drop a model which means you lose your second meltagun. Keep all your WG having a power fist, and each GH pack with a power weapon. Drop the plasma pistol and the MotW.

 

I'd give your lone wolf termie armor.

 

As heavy support choices go, its LF packs/predators/vindicators. Each is viable, but I must agree that LFs are the best in the game. Shame to hear you had a problem with them, but I never go to war with just a single squad. One pack on each end of your deployment zone is perfect for making a crossfire zone.

I wouldn't go for three "dakka" preds, as they would only be useful to AV11.

 

I'm interested to know what your plan is with this force. As I said before, unless you're at least playing 2500, three "chracters" are too much of a point sink. I see a mobile force, so drop two of the "characters" and add more mobile packs. Non-character HQ choices are just as good, IMO.

[Wispy]

Long fangs with 5 missle launchers really are better and more efficient then any vehicle

 

however a vindicator will draw far more fire power due to the sheer "omg s 10 ap 1 pie plate" factor

AP2, silly goose.

[Bergelmir]

Hi everyone,

 

Thank you for all your fast replies; I appreciate them all! I apologise for the confusion regarding the list I provided. It's not really a points list for a game, but rather, a list of the models I currently own. I've only played 2 games so far and have left Canis out of them, to me he's only good for a fluffy-list with lots and lots of Wolves. Have been going with 2 9-men GH, one full 10-GH, Njal, Logan, 2 Rhinos, Lone Wolf, Dread and Scouts so far. Shall take into account non-character HQ units like Rune Priests and buy them shortly.

 

The local club/group that I play with tends to play with SM, Chaos, Tau and Eldar. Not many horde armies as far as I can see... I'll be taking into consideration the 5ML LF pack due to the number of supporters, but I'm not really interested in painting 5 infantry models that look the same. I'll also consider two Predators/Vindicators or 1 LR (for Terminators+Logan) but not the Whirlwind.

 

So the question is Vindicator/Predator/LR?

 

Thanks once again for helping me out.

[Godhead]

out of the 3 vindi/pred/LR I like em so far in the order of LR/pred/Vindi. I coughed my vindi over to my stepson for his BA army since fast vindis are way better than the slow and bumpy vindis ;).

 

@Maleopener, you say take two packs and put them at opposite ends of the deployment zone, and I was actually did one better and took 3 packs, 4ml 1lc each and I was still underwhelmed.

[mitchell93]

AP2, silly goose.

oops <_< still the same effect though

[Karack Blackstone]

Just to say it, if you meant to say infantry as in, "can hold an objective" Long Fangs are Troops, yes, but not infantry.

 

LR's are good, the variant you intend to use can be a huge difference.

[MaleOpener]

Predator, vindicator, or Land raider? ...

 

Since you use Logan, I'd take a LR type. Your WG pack can buy one as a transport, leaving your HS choices open. I'd take either the Crusader or Redeemer, depending how many WG ( plus Logan ) will be in the pack.

 

If you really don't want to take LFs, I'd go with a pred/vindi combo. You could just go with one of each, and buy lascannon sponsons for your pred. I tend to love vindies, myself, but suggest you should listen to other opinions ... :P

Also remember that dreads are great at anti-vehicle support. Armed with MM/HF and stuffed into a drop pod ( works well slogging too ), though I suggest some sort of support or your DSing dreads with die before they do damage.

 

 

@ Godhead, I tend to take only 2 LF packs as every pack/dread/model in my force has some type of anti-vehicle ability. My LFs soften up vehicles/squads from afar, for a turn or two, until the rest of my force gets there ( slogging ) ... A bit confused when you said "underwhelmed". Don't you mean "overwhelmed", or am I missing something? :)

 

 

My opinions only.

[Godhead]

I am "Underwhelmed". I think it's just because I prefer to mech up to have that extra mobility, and long fangs are counter intuitive to that play style. I guess I just prefer speeders. They get to not only move, but move 12 inches and still shoot. This lets me position to have more shots on side and rear armor making them seem/be more effective. My other complaint about my long fangs is that everyone i play tends to target them early and just bomb then with lots of firepower. Even with a 3+ armor/ 4+ cover they still seem a bit fragile. So all those things combined leaves me feeling underwhelmed by my long fangs. It's disappointing too, as I'm lucky enough to have so many ML to field 3 packs of them. :)

[Olgerth Istaarn]

Long Fangs are invariably the stars of the show whenever I field them.

 

Splittable fire is hard to beat. My opponents start foaming at the mouth when two lascannons do something nasty to a tank, then three frag missiles ruin the infantry's day. Of course, you have to find a good spot to deploy, but once you do, the fun starts.

 

LFs are also relatively cheap and highly annoying. Nobody likes ignoring that many heavy weapons, so they start blasting at the LFs, who are usually in cover (and can go to ground, if necessary). If nothing else, this buys me valuable breathing room for the rest of the army to mosey wherever it is moseying. Since LFs are usually far away from the enemy, they don't suffer from "bucket of dice" mid- and short-range weapons, and distract single-shot heavy hitters.