Why is being the 1st legion such a big deal?

[Titan87]

So as a relatively new player (started at the beginning of 5th edition) I have been looking deeper into the fluff of all the legions, and one of the things that I see often with DA players is the claim of being the "first and greatest" legion. I was wondering what are the benefits are that come with being the first legion?

[Gillyfish]

Well, that depends if you're talking about it in game terms or background. Being the oldest legion technically means we have access to older technology in greater quantities than some of the newer chapters. In game terms that means we have had access to more plasma weaponry than other chapters (no longer the case), access to a large number of suits of terminator armour and even a jetbike. To be honest, it hasn't been explored as well as it might have been.

 

In background terms, it means the Dark Angels and their Primarch are the original Space Marines. The first to be created and (presumably) the blueprint for all that followed.

[Netfreakk]

In game terms it means our codex is the "beta" for all other space marine codice. :(

 

I had to say it... come on you giggled... a little.

 

Seriously though, our dex isn't as bad as people say (I was a whiner).

[Hellios]

I was wondering what are the benefits are that come with being the first legion?

 

Well he have a number of great benefits including health care, child care, pension and each year one lucky Battle Brother has his name drawn from a hat and he is sent on an all expenses paid holiday!

 

The real benefit is we can tell everyone that we are older and better than them and then watch the Space Wolves players face twist into a snarl and The UM player go but our primarch wrote the codex!!! and Matt Ward says we are the best!!! Unfortunatly we get no reaction from the Blood Angels player or the Black Templars player as they are busy doing their nails and purging aliens... I'll let you guess who was doing what.

[Arioch]

Well mostly it is a question about honour, which is very important for the DA. Its like being the first company in a chapter, it is a position of prestige. I dont think the other Legions cared much about this, but then again they where not the first :lol:

 

In the real world, the first part of an army was normally considered the leaders own unit and I think thats why the Dark Angels is said to have been the first bodyguard of the Emperor. Well the first spacemarine bodyguard of course.

[Octavulg]

The same benefits as being the eldest child.

 

i.e. primarily the ability to remind the other Legions you're older.

[HsojVvad]

In game terms it means our codex is the "beta" for all other space marine codice. ;)

 

I had to say it... come on you giggled... a little.

 

Seriously though, our dex isn't as bad as people say (I was a whiner).

Yes I did have a chuckle as always I see this. I say it myself as well. It's true.I use to be a whiner as well, so I just laugh at how some of us acted before.

 

As was said before, we are the First Formed Space Marine chapter. The Emperor found Lion el Jonson first and I believe the DA became the Emperors honour guard, but not shure on that. Keep reading differnet points of view on this.

 

In game terms there is no benifits and for fluff terms, it seems it dosn't matter either. Who ever writes the current codex for what ever faction makes them out to be the best. If you read the DA fluff, there is no way the UM are the best of the best, and finest. In DA fluff the DA are suppose to have the purest Geneseed, but now that honour goes to the UM. For some reason thier geneseed is the "best" and purest now.

 

There is no consitencey in GW rules or Fluff sadly. But they are working on it, the only thing that has stayed consitent about DA is that they are the 1st SM chapter founded. (for now ;))

[Legatus]

In DA fluff the DA are suppose to have the purest Geneseed, but now that honour goes to the UM. For some reason thier geneseed is the "best" and purest now.

Was that from the 2nd Edition Codex Angels of Death? Because in the 3rd Edition Index Astartes articles it had been the Ultramarines that were said to have "by far the purest" gene-seed, while the Dark Angels had "one of the purest".

[HsojVvad]

In DA fluff the DA are suppose to have the purest Geneseed, but now that honour goes to the UM. For some reason thier geneseed is the "best" and purest now.

Was that from the 2nd Edition Codex Angels of Death? Because in the 3rd Edition Index Astartes articles it had been the Ultramarines that were said to have "by far the purest" gene-seed, while the Dark Angels had "one of the purest".

No it wouldn't have been from 2nd edtiond codex since I don't have it. I am looking for it for the fluff but can't find one anywhere. I can't remember where I read it. I thoguht it was in the 4th editon codex but now I don't remember for the life of me where I read it.

 

Then again I guess the 4th edtion codex has been so regurgitated so much and things left out now from what I have been reading from what others have said.

 

But one thing I can't understand, can we really be the first SM? I thought when the Emperor met Lion el Johnson he has SM with him. So much reading I am confusing myself now.

[WolfGuardVortek]

Horus was the first recovered by the Emperor.

[TyrionTheImp]

Well, it's not so much of a big deal, but just having bragging rights saying "Haha, we're the first", other than that there's nothing much that comes with it anymore.

 

Horus was the first Primarch found (he was closest to Earth) so we can't really say that we were the first found, but the DA were the first Legion created, and still to this day have very little (if any) defects in the Gene Seed.

 

Of course we also possess an extraordinary amount of Terminator armor, but I don't feel that has much to do with being the First Legion.

[Celestin]

Horus was the first recovered by the Emperor.

 

If you think about it, Magnus also would have been found before the Lion, as he was the one who instigated the practice of training psyker marines as Librarians, and the books show that the DA already had a Librarium when Caliban was found.

 

Well, it's not so much of a big deal, but just having bragging rights saying "Haha, we're the first", other than that there's nothing much that comes with it anymore.

 

Horus was the first Primarch found (he was closest to Earth) so we can't really say that we were the first found, but the DA were the first Legion created, and still to this day have very little (if any) defects in the Gene Seed.

 

Of course we also possess an extraordinary amount of Terminator armor, but I don't feel that has much to do with being the First Legion.

 

I believe that's mostly a matter of the DA being split up the least of all Legions aside from the Blood Angels, who never had much TDA to begin with.

[Hellios]

Horus was the first recovered by the Emperor.

 

If you think about it, Magnus also would have been found before the Lion, as he was the one who instigated the practice of training psyker marines as Librarians, and the books show that the DA already had a Librarium when Caliban was found.

 

Well, it's not so much of a big deal, but just having bragging rights saying "Haha, we're the first", other than that there's nothing much that comes with it anymore.

 

Horus was the first Primarch found (he was closest to Earth) so we can't really say that we were the first found, but the DA were the first Legion created, and still to this day have very little (if any) defects in the Gene Seed.

 

Of course we also possess an extraordinary amount of Terminator armor, but I don't feel that has much to do with being the First Legion.

 

I believe that's mostly a matter of the DA being split up the least of all Legions aside from the Blood Angels, who never had much TDA to begin with.

 

Salamanders, Raven Guard and Iron Hands didn't get split up that much... because I don't think many of them survived...

 

As for the purity of the geneseed every other chapter seems to say they are the purest or that they are amongst the purest... so who cares... I'm also pretty sure somewhere it has said that there are no know defects within the Dark Angels geneseed that being the case isn't our geneseed as pure as possible as far as we know (it is possible unknown defects exist) and this is just another example of GW trying to make everyone sound UBER!

[ellis_esquire]

Because we're Dark, we're Angels and were are I.

[Gillyfish]

As for the purity of the geneseed every other chapter seems to say they are the purest or that they are amongst the purest... so who cares... I'm also pretty sure somewhere it has said that there are no know defects within the Dark Angels geneseed that being the case isn't our geneseed as pure as possible as far as we know (it is possible unknown defects exist) and this is just another example of GW trying to make everyone sound UBER!

 

Well not necessarily, the BA certainly have (tragically) flawed geneseed. The Fists have lost a number of functioning organs, the Salamanders all have glowing red eyes, and we all know what happened to the Raven Guard's geneseed. So to have one of the purest sets of geneseed is actually quite important. What's not clear is whether that means the most complete as well, in terms of still having all of the original functioning organs.

[Legatus]

As for the purity of the geneseed every other chapter seems to say they are the purest or that they are amongst the purest...

Actually the Index Astartes articles mention some kind of issue with each of the First Founding Chapters' gene-seed, with the exception of the Ultramarines and the Dark Angels. The Imperial Fists have very stable abd pure gene stock, but they have lost the information for two of the Organs. The White Scars and Salamanders gene stock appears largely stable, but there are a few issues with the Chapters that may or may not be genetically based. The White Scars are of an above average aggression, which may be based on their traditional heritage, but may also be genetically. The Salamanders are a bit slow tempered compared to other Marines (still faster than the average human), and several of their successors display mutations, like the Black Dragons. The Iron Hands gene-seed appears to be stable and pure, but it is suspected that their reclusiveness and their practice to remove body parts and replace them with binonics is intended to hide some gene based secret.

The Blood Angels, Space Wolves and especially the Raven Guard have some major issues, though the Blood Angels so far have largely managed to keep that a secret.

[The Shadow Guard]

Coming to the party late....

 

The issue of being the first legion was mostly covered in the old fludd.... 40K 1, 2 and 3 publications... It has never ever been adequately displayed in game terms. A very simple effort was the provision of Plasma cannons to tacticals quads in the revised 3rd edition codex...

 

However there are two facts to be proud of in regards to the fluff of being the first legion:

 

1. The dark Angels legion provided the Emperor's Honour Guard in the early days of the crusade

 

2. The Dark Angels Legion was the only legion to be personally led by the emperor. So a sense of belonging to the emperor should be much stronger with the Dark Angels than any other legion. This little fact is mostly forgotten in contemporary discussions.

[Alys Dwr]

But one thing I can't understand, can we really be the first SM? I thought when the Emperor met Lion el Johnson he has SM with him. So much reading I am confusing myself now.

I'll field this as i think most of the other questions have been answered. Yes we are the first marines. These pre-Caliban space marines were created using the Lion's genetic template stored on Terra (in the Himilayas IIRC). Before the Primarchs were found, each of them had a legion out crusading made in much the same way. Once discovered by the Emperor they were gifted command of their legion and recruitment etc moved from Terra to the Primarchs' respective home worlds.

 

As far as the benefits of being the first legion, it's mostly bragging rights. I like to think of it this way though - the emperor made his vision of perfection in the Lion, then proceeded to make 17 more with less passion and more tedium each time. The last two were soooo bad he threw them in the bin and deleted all records of their existence.

 

Al

[Brother-Captain Sharp]

As far as the benefits of being the first legion, it's mostly bragging rights. I like to think of it this way though - the emperor made his vision of perfection in the Lion, then proceeded to make 17 more with less passion and more tedium each time. The last two were soooo bad he threw them in the bin and deleted all records of their existence.

 

Al

Lol I like this.

 

"Whoops! Burnt a batch."

 

2. The Dark Angels Legion was the only legion to be personally led by the emperor. So a sense of belonging to the emperor should be much stronger with the Dark Angels than any other legion. This little fact is mostly forgotten in contemporary discussions.

I had forgotten this. Thanks for reminding me. That is pretty cool. :lol:

[Hellios]

As for the purity of the geneseed every other chapter seems to say they are the purest or that they are amongst the purest...

Actually the Index Astartes articles mention some kind of issue with each of the First Founding Chapters' gene-seed, with the exception of the Ultramarines and the Dark Angels. The Imperial Fists have very stable abd pure gene stock, but they have lost the information for two of the Organs. The White Scars and Salamanders gene stock appears largely stable, but there are a few issues with the Chapters that may or may not be genetically based. The White Scars are of an above average aggression, which may be based on their traditional heritage, but may also be genetically. The Salamanders are a bit slow tempered compared to other Marines (still faster than the average human), and several of their successors display mutations, like the Black Dragons. The Iron Hands gene-seed appears to be stable and pure, but it is suspected that their reclusiveness and their practice to remove body parts and replace them with binonics is intended to hide some gene based secret.

The Blood Angels, Space Wolves and especially the Raven Guard have some major issues, though the Blood Angels so far have largely managed to keep that a secret.

Not specifically @ Legatus but other people who commented on what I said... I realise what I said being on a forum and also I don't know how common this use of the language is but when I said every other chapter I didn't mean all chapters I meant like every other one as in alternating... although there may well be less than 500 chapters with pure geneseed... although over half are UM successors so a lot of them may be pure :< I may be wrong but don't the tithe samples sent to the Admech from the Black Dragons show as being pure or at least no major deviations... and they grow bone blade things on their arms... (I mean they might be using someone elses geneseed who knows...)

[Legatus]

As far as the benefits of being the first legion, it's mostly bragging rights. I like to think of it this way though - the emperor made his vision of perfection in the Lion, then proceeded to make 17 more with less passion and more tedium each time. The last two were soooo bad he threw them in the bin and deleted all records of their existence.

The last two were Corax and Alpharius, though. :)

 

Not specifically @ Legatus but other people who commented on what I said... I realise what I said being on a forum and also I don't know how common this use of the language is but when I said every other chapter I didn't mean all chapters I meant like every other one as in alternating... although there may well be less than 500 chapters with pure geneseed... although over half are UM successors so a lot of them may be pure :< I may be wrong but don't the tithe samples sent to the Admech from the Black Dragons show as being pure or at least no major deviations... and they grow bone blade things on their arms... (I mean they might be using someone elses geneseed who knows...)

But since all the Chapters use the genetic stock of one of the original 9 Chapters, the comparison is really only between those, isn't it? And of those, only two are truly said to be without issues. To claim a pure (or even the purest) gene-stock is no smaller issue than being "the first" of the Legions. :) The Dark Angels are the first and have pure and fully functional stock, which isn't bad at all. Legio XIII can claim to have by far the purest stock, though.

 

(If someone wonders how gene stock can be purer than "no aberration", well, "abberation" may not be the only possible issue. Perhaps "deterioration" is a problem as well, though not as grave as "abberation". At least it has often be suggested that Marines today are not as powerfull as Marines were at the time of the Great Crusade. In case of the Ultramarines it is stated, though, that their gene-seed is as perfect today as it was during the time of Guilliman.)

[Marshal Wilhelm]

The real benefit is we can tell everyone that we are older and better than them and then watch the Space Wolves players face twist into a snarl and The UM player go but our primarch wrote the codex!!! and Matt Ward says we are the best!!! Unfortunatly we get no reaction from the Blood Angels player or the Black Templars player as they are busy doing their nails and purging aliens... I'll let you guess who was doing what.

 

A+ brother, A+ ^_^

 

The same benefits as being the eldest child.

 

i.e. primarily the ability to remind the other Legions you're older.

;)

 

+++

 

I would like this to be reinforced when Matt Ward übers C:DA.

 

Best Terms, more Special weapons in squads, more goodies than C:UM basically. Of course this would have to be "balanced" points wise.

[Brother Rathul]

All in all, there is no benefit, each chapter has its ups and downs. The Dark Angels (based off a weird poem by a weird guy ;) ) sat on the sidelines during the heresy while their brethren died, they try to cover up the fact they had heretic marines but every chapter did so why go all crazy about it? Ultramarines, we aren't going there ^_^ Black Templars while cool, are zealots....cough...cough...awesome....cough. And, the Space Wolves are crazy but hey, all space marines are just one big happy family right? ;)

[Fidman]

In DA fluff the DA are suppose to have the purest Geneseed, but now that honour goes to the UM. For some reason thier geneseed is the "best" and purest now.

Was that from the 2nd Edition Codex Angels of Death? Because in the 3rd Edition Index Astartes articles it had been the Ultramarines that were said to have "by far the purest" gene-seed, while the Dark Angels had "one of the purest".

 

 

I believe part of the reason for the Ultramarines being labeled as having the "purest" gene-seed is because they are the favorites of the Imperial bureaucracy. While the Dark Angels may have an equally pure gene-seed, their tendency to abandon their allies to go chasing after the Fallen have probably made them somewhat suspect.

[Wayward]

Somewhere in our 4th ed codex are 3 facts:

 

*Our geneseed is one of the purest and DA marines doesnt lack any special organs.

 

*Regarding the above, Terra do not want lots of DA succesors.

 

*The only Chapter Master that "petitioned" for a succesor chapter to be created was a DA grand Master.