Are Thunderwolves made of cheese?

[Darksaber]

After reading a few posts on here about how to use Thunderwolves, I decided to use them in a friendly game.

 

I had 4 Thunderwolves, 1x SS & TH, 1X SS, 1x Melta Bomb and 1x "naked". They were accompanied by a Thunderwolf Lord with all the trimmings (Wolf Claw, SS, WTN, WTT and Saga of Warrior Born).

 

Since using my Deathstar unit word has spread and I'm struggling to get a game with my wolves. I'm also getting a lot of people dispute the would allocation thing does anyone have any way I can clarify it for an opponent? I've tried using the analogy of how it can be done with 'nid warriors and the like but people look at me like I'm cheating..or at the very least abusing the rules.

 

So does anyone else have these issues? Or is my gaming group a bunch of whingers? :tu:

[captain fabian]

Or is my gaming group a bunch of whingers? :P

 

 

It is.

[nurglez]

Its similar to nob biker squad of doom, or using lash or what ever, at least I'm sure some people see it that way.

[Tograth]

your gaming group is a bunch of whiners. Wound allocation is most definitely allowed, and TWC are pretty much built for it. You dont see folks moaning about nob bikers or such, and if you do, tell them to shut up and read the rulebook.

 

 

The problem is, they most likely dont know how to deal with the TWC. Easiest way to kill them off is massed shooting. Generate enough hits and you get enough 1's to kill them.

[asmodai650]

My usual weekly opponent runs thunderwolves every now and then. the easiest way that I have found to beat them so far is to make them fail moral checks and run. Since they usually come up the flanks, falling back 3d6 and escorted by a tank or two help get them off of the board. Until he changes his tactics that is!

 

as far as wound allocation goes, it is completely valid. Maybe you could try to explain this to your group by showing them units in their own codex or army list that can benefit from it as well. That way everybody learns, and now everyone has one of these special units :P

[rodgambit]

It sounds like your group doesn't know the rules very well and rather than find a way to deal with your unit they'd rather not play you. I agree with some of the above comments in that the best way to deal with them is mass fire power since they only have a 3 up save.

 

I've played various online and table top games and it is sad to see so many people that would rather give up and/or whine about something rather than try and overcome it.

[Natanael]

It sounds like your group doesn't know the rules very well and rather than find a way to deal with your unit they'd rather not play you. I agree with some of the above comments in that the best way to deal with them is mass fire power since they only have a 3 up save.

 

I've played various online and table top games and it is sad to see so many people that would rather give up and/or whine about something rather than try and overcome it.

 

Agreed. I don't get why ppl play at all of the just quit whan they lose. No fun in that. I have a friend who I have something like 1-1-9 against in our games. He "always" wins, but I learn a lot, and are games are always very close nowadays, and against other ppl I tend to win more now, since I have leared to play better. So just tell them to adapt and try something new to beat you instead of quiting. Or change gaiming group if you can.

 

- Natanael

[Vampyrer0me0]

It is totally allowed by the rules. I think its a bit against the fun of the game, but its nice to know the wolves have a unit that can do it also. The worst ones for this are the nob bikers which I have faced a few times now.

 

Most people feel cheated even though it follows the letter of the rules. The rules say remove full models when possible. I think the wound allocation thing is nasty loophole. It exists so I just fire more meltas at the nob biker unit and took Arjac to handle them in close combat. Dont care what he does instant kill still needs to remove full models.

[the jeske]

Maybe you could try to explain this to your group by showing them units in their own codex or army list that can benefit from it as well.

unless they play orks or SW too it is impossible to get a unit that works like TWC . everything else can be either instant deathed , is 1wound or has crapier saves or all 3 at the same time.

[Grey Mage]

After reading a few posts on here about how to use Thunderwolves, I decided to use them in a friendly game.

 

I had 4 Thunderwolves, 1x SS & TH, 1X SS, 1x Melta Bomb and 1x "naked". They were accompanied by a Thunderwolf Lord with all the trimmings (Wolf Claw, SS, WTN, WTT and Saga of Warrior Born).

 

Since using my Deathstar unit word has spread and I'm struggling to get a game with my wolves. I'm also getting a lot of people dispute the would allocation thing does anyone have any way I can clarify it for an opponent? I've tried using the analogy of how it can be done with 'nid warriors and the like but people look at me like I'm cheating..or at the very least abusing the rules.

 

So does anyone else have these issues? Or is my gaming group a bunch of whingers? :P

1) Tell them to read the wound allocation rules- if theyre all unique, then they must all be kept track of seperately.

1a) If theyre still confused, ask them what their problem is? Sometimes being blunt is what you need to do.

2) Get a game, then once youve trounced him flip sides and play with his army and kill yours.

[Valerian]

After reading a few posts on here about how to use Thunderwolves, I decided to use them in a friendly game.

 

I had 4 Thunderwolves, 1x SS & TH, 1X SS, 1x Melta Bomb and 1x "naked". They were accompanied by a Thunderwolf Lord with all the trimmings (Wolf Claw, SS, WTN, WTT and Saga of Warrior Born).

 

How much did that unit cost you? Point that out to your opponent(s); they are tough, but they are also very expensive.

 

Since using my Deathstar unit word has spread and I'm struggling to get a game with my wolves.

 

If the unit is causing a problem, then play without them, simple enough.

 

I'm also getting a lot of people dispute the would allocation thing does anyone have any way I can clarify it for an opponent? I've tried using the analogy of how it can be done with 'nid warriors and the like but people look at me like I'm cheating..or at the very least abusing the rules.

 

Just have to show them how it works in the rulebook, and you could certainly use the Ork Nob Mob to demonstrate how it can be/is used. It sucks to have to overcome, but that is just part of the game.

 

V

[PKAwolf]

How much did that unit cost you? Point that out to your opponent(s); they are tough, but they are also very expensive.

 

V

 

that is easily a ~500pt unit

 

edit: and no, it is not made of cheese. it is in fact; made of Win!

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

They can be pretty nasty, but if you gone to the bother of scratch-building/sourcing the figures and paying the points then you can argue that you've earned the right to use them as intended

[Vorion]

You shouldnt have to not use a unit in order to play. I had a hell of a time over comming my friends mawloc but I didnt rage quit and stop playing him. If they are really interested in the game then they will figure out a way to beat you. And as for the comment about the massed shooting, that works for everything and anything. We play a game based around dice, they are fickle fiends. Ive seen some one play a game and never roll a 1 and Ive seen that same player struggle to kill a Tau drone squad with his assault squad. Force any one to continuously make rolls and you will see them fall eventually

[MylesTheTroll]

Pg 26 of the BRB "units of multiple-wound models" It even gives a 3 paragraph example.

 

I've been telling my group about this unit, and they keep saying that is not gonna be fun to go against. I ask why. The general consensus is that they don't know how they would handle it in-game. I tell them just shoot the hell out of it like you would Nobz. They retort "You're the type of player who would keep them in reserve to protect them, and would wait til I get halfway across the table, then you'd pounce on me with those things the second they make their reserve roll." All I can say is true.

[CainTheHunter]

Pg 26 of the BRB "units of multiple-wound models" It even gives a 3 paragraph example.

 

I've been telling my group about this unit, and they keep saying that is not gonna be fun to go against. I ask why. The general consensus is that they don't know how they would handle it in-game. I tell them just shoot the hell out of it like you would Nobz. They retort "You're the type of player who would keep them in reserve to protect them, and would wait til I get halfway across the table, then you'd pounce on me with those things the second they make their reserve roll." All I can say is true.

 

Whiners. Just bring a flamer and burn those heretics. Then crush their minis with Your boots!

Err..

 

Nevermind.

Sorry.

[MylesTheTroll]

Pg 26 of the BRB "units of multiple-wound models" It even gives a 3 paragraph example.

 

I've been telling my group about this unit, and they keep saying that is not gonna be fun to go against. I ask why. The general consensus is that they don't know how they would handle it in-game. I tell them just shoot the hell out of it like you would Nobz. They retort "You're the type of player who would keep them in reserve to protect them, and would wait til I get halfway across the table, then you'd pounce on me with those things the second they make their reserve roll." All I can say is true.

 

Whiners. Just bring a flamer and burn those heretics. Then crush their minis with Your boots!

Err..

 

Nevermind.

Sorry.

 

Though worth noting, they didn't say that they wouldn't fight them. Which is good.

[Ash Tekka]

Pg 26 of the BRB "units of multiple-wound models" It even gives a 3 paragraph example.

 

I think the problem is that they may not have played many games where this would matter that much. It seems theres a small number of units that can truely benefit from it.

 

With it being 3 paragraphs long makes it a little harder to understand, I'm still struggling to understand it myself so its hard for me to explain it to my friends I play with. It doesn't help that we're all new but it is still confusing:)

[hmk17]

Thunderwolf Cav are BETTER Nob Bikers in most respects. Most Ork players HATE seeing their tactics turned on them.

 

It's not that the units are cheesy, its the current Wound Allocation rules. They are easy to manipulate and difficult to deal with. I'm working on something with Logan Wing, that does just this with 20+ Terminators.

 

The frustration they are feeling is natural and

 

Armies have answers, they just have to find them.

 

Watched an Eldar player go to town on an all TWC army. The little power that denies all saves cut through them hard.

[Darksaber]

I think the problem is that they may not have played many games where this would matter that much. It seems theres a small number of units that can truely benefit from it.

 

I think you might have hit the nail on the head somewhat there. Theres only one Ork player at my club, and he prefers to footslog.

Otherwise, thanks for the replies guys, it's nice to know I was right with regards the wound allocation thing. I think I'll persevere with tyring to persuede people to play my wolves, and as Grey Mage sugested, maybe I'll offer to swap armies with them for the following game. Failing all that I'll just tell them to get over it and shoot my wolves lots before I reach within 19" of them :D

[Requiem of the Wolf]

The problems your opponent's are faced with his they are not bringing equal points to the fight more then likely. Meaning they aren't devoting 600 or so points to fighting that unit. Also they are not sending the S10 shots at the Cav. Each time around the Lord will only be able to safely take one of those,meaning with multiple hits then you stand a decent chance of losing models flat out.

 

a Vindicator with a line of troops in front of it to prevent you assaulting it first time around will do wonders for dealing with thunderwolves. Masses of fire will also do nicely,simply because 1's and 2's will happen. The one time I faced another Space Wolf player with Thunderwolves, I trapped him between 3 grey hunter squads with plasma guns,and then just rapid fired him. 12 plasma shots will wreck anyone's day. With the plasma,I got 9 shots through that wounded. he had 4 cav and a lord. So he had to give two wounds to 4 of them,meaning one died right off,and an auto wound to the others before he could try saving any of them.

And they saved half of them,leaving a wound on each. After that,2 lascannons and 3 missile launcher long fangs opened up and by the time that was done,the SS cav had one wound,and the Lord had one wound,the other was dead. After that the lord split from the cav,and they assaulted two of the rhinos that the squads were in. After that the Grey hunters that got out of the wrecked rhino destroyed them both.

 

Long story shorter...Bring enough points to match what you are facing. Bring enough wounds that have an ap of 3 that they have to put wounds on ones that can't save.

[Grey Mage]

The problems your opponent's are faced with his they are not bringing equal points to the fight more then likely. Meaning they aren't devoting 600 or so points to fighting that unit. Also they are not sending the S10 shots at the Cav. Each time around the Lord will only be able to safely take one of those,meaning with multiple hits then you stand a decent chance of losing models flat out.

.....

 

Long story shorter...Bring enough points to match what you are facing. Bring enough wounds that have an ap of 3 that they have to put wounds on ones that can't save.

If all the bloodclaws learned as fast as this one my games would be far more interesting.

[rodf]

Watched an Eldar player go to town on an all TWC army. The little power that denies all saves cut through them hard.

Eldar have a power that ignore saves, or are you talking about doom? Doom allows an eldar player to reroll fail wounds against the doom unit. Is a great little power to take multiwound units down.

 

Not sure how well the TWC would fair against a seer council with the always wound on 2s and higher initiative.... they can doom the squad and fortune themselves. also if on bikes their range is prety far. Any eldar player comment on this ?

Dark reapers are evil against armor 3, and they will get multiple round of shooting at the wolves if teamed up with a nightspinner.

 

Orks can probably dispatch them easy enough with their ork mob swamping , and their units are cheap so is a good trade.

 

Marines have the option to use lysander who intant kills a thunderwolf on a wound that is not saved, also used for nob bikers..... What works on ork bikers will work on thunderwolves. Marines also have the option to back it up with null zone , forcing a reroll on succesful invulnerable saves during the marine players turn. Sternguard with wound on 2 round , or unloading 10 combi meltas (50 points), or just using ap3 bolters can take a fair chunk out of them.

 

Blood angels have mephiston, with the STR 10 force sword, he will always hit first against them , may not take the whole unit down but will take out a good chunk. also asteroth's axe has a null field built into it.

 

also things that give dangerous or difficult terrain are useful in delaying their aproach.

shoot the chopie , chop the shootie. TWC just needs alot of work to take down , but that is what makes them a good unit.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

your group sucks.

 

mine die enough time to prove they are killable.

 

WLK

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Pg 26 of the BRB "units of multiple-wound models" It even gives a 3 paragraph example.

 

I think the problem is that they may not have played many games where this would matter that much. It seems theres a small number of units that can truely benefit from it.

 

With it being 3 paragraphs long makes it a little harder to understand, I'm still struggling to understand it myself so its hard for me to explain it to my friends I play with. It doesn't help that we're all new but it is still confusing:)

 

Some times it helps to run through the example with models and dice. You don't even have to do it during the game. Line up your models and have a selection of different coloured dice which represent different attacks.

 

Then allocate them through, exploiting it as best as you can. :D

 

When I got into 5th ed. I thought "WA is soo beardy and stupid too" That was mostly because I was conditioned by previous editions. I was used to previous editions and thought that way was "right" (correct, morally superior, the way the game should be played, blah blah blah, yadda yadda ya, etc.)

Once I had gotten over myself and my ugly little prejudices (some of them, anyway :blush: ) I accepted it and embraced it.

I think your friends will too.

 

As a BT player, when I play against fresh foes and those who haven't played BT, I feel guilty for re-rolling misses and using 4th ed Smoke. Both of these things are explicitly written in the rules as being the rules! Why do I feel guilty? I don't know, but maybe because I am already doing well that I feel mean for smashing them in the guts or maybe because they are surprised by it and thus don't like it, then I don't like it.... I don't know, but it is ridiculous as they are the rules! ;)

 

The problems your opponent's are faced with his they are not bringing equal points to the fight more then likely. Meaning they aren't devoting 600 or so points to fighting that unit. Also they are not sending the S10 shots at the Cav.

Long story shorter...Bring enough points to match what you are facing. Bring enough wounds that have an ap of 3 that they have to put wounds on ones that can't save.

 

That is exactly my parallel experience. My brother had a 500+ unit of Orks. They happened to DS just within range of half my 1750pts army. With so many units shooting and assaulting them, they went down like wheat before the reaper. Deathstars must be targeted by at least the same value, or more, to get rid of them safely.

 

Fight fire with an even bigger Fire :) :lol: