Wildfire Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Orks can probably dispatch them easy enough with their ork mob swamping , and their units are cheap so is a good trade. Not really. Orks really struggle against marine bikers, especially attack bikes. And Thunderwolves are obviously much better than a biker. Without the ability to get a charge, Orks have to roll a 6 for a wound, which cripples them. On average, it will take 36 attacks to do a single wound, and with proper wound allocation that means they'll have to throw 180 attacks before the first of a 4-marine squad goes down. Only the Klaw Nob can reliably hurt them, and even then a shield goes a long way (especially since the S8 Klaw doesn't insta-kill them). While I haven't used thunderwolves in a game myself, when I do get around to it I'll be taking a swiftclaw pack with rune priest to pick out the Klaws. That ought to make my Thunderwolves invulnerable in CC, for all practical purposes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/205316-are-thunderwolves-made-of-cheese/page/2/#findComment-2449538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmk17 Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Watched an Eldar player go to town on an all TWC army. The little power that denies all saves cut through them hard. Eldar have a power that ignore saves, or are you talking about doom? Doom allows an eldar player to reroll fail wounds against the doom unit. Is a great little power to take multiwound units down. Not sure how well the TWC would fair against a seer council with the always wound on 2s and higher initiative.... they can doom the squad and fortune themselves. also if on bikes their range is prety far. Any eldar player comment on this ? Dark reapers are evil against armor 3, and they will get multiple round of shooting at the wolves if teamed up with a nightspinner. Orks can probably dispatch them easy enough with their ork mob swamping , and their units are cheap so is a good trade. Marines have the option to use lysander who intant kills a thunderwolf on a wound that is not saved, also used for nob bikers..... What works on ork bikers will work on thunderwolves. Marines also have the option to back it up with null zone , forcing a reroll on succesful invulnerable saves during the marine players turn. Sternguard with wound on 2 round , or unloading 10 combi meltas (50 points), or just using ap3 bolters can take a fair chunk out of them. Blood angels have mephiston, with the STR 10 force sword, he will always hit first against them , may not take the whole unit down but will take out a good chunk. also asteroth's axe has a null field built into it. also things that give dangerous or difficult terrain are useful in delaying their aproach. shoot the chopie , chop the shootie. TWC just needs alot of work to take down , but that is what makes them a good unit. Want to say it was Mind War... can't remember the name. But he mentioned it only allowed Cover Saves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/205316-are-thunderwolves-made-of-cheese/page/2/#findComment-2449694 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MylesTheTroll Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Watched an Eldar player go to town on an all TWC army. The little power that denies all saves cut through them hard. Eldar have a power that ignore saves, or are you talking about doom? Doom allows an eldar player to reroll fail wounds against the doom unit. Is a great little power to take multiwound units down. Not sure how well the TWC would fair against a seer council with the always wound on 2s and higher initiative.... they can doom the squad and fortune themselves. also if on bikes their range is prety far. Any eldar player comment on this ? Dark reapers are evil against armor 3, and they will get multiple round of shooting at the wolves if teamed up with a nightspinner. Orks can probably dispatch them easy enough with their ork mob swamping , and their units are cheap so is a good trade. Marines have the option to use lysander who intant kills a thunderwolf on a wound that is not saved, also used for nob bikers..... What works on ork bikers will work on thunderwolves. Marines also have the option to back it up with null zone , forcing a reroll on succesful invulnerable saves during the marine players turn. Sternguard with wound on 2 round , or unloading 10 combi meltas (50 points), or just using ap3 bolters can take a fair chunk out of them. Blood angels have mephiston, with the STR 10 force sword, he will always hit first against them , may not take the whole unit down but will take out a good chunk. also asteroth's axe has a null field built into it. also things that give dangerous or difficult terrain are useful in delaying their aproach. shoot the chopie , chop the shootie. TWC just needs alot of work to take down , but that is what makes them a good unit. Want to say it was Mind War... can't remember the name. But he mentioned it only allowed Cover Saves. Mind War only affects one specific enemy model of Eldar players choosing. No more. No less. And even then, a roll off based off the Farseer and target's Leadership values must happen. Doom allows for all failed "to wound" rolls to be re-rolled against one enemy unit. Fortune grants a friendly unit the ability to re-roll failed saves. Guide twin-links a friendly unit. And Eldritch Storm does S3 AP- large blast damage. As an Eldar player as well, I'm intrigued as to what he did. All I can think of is that he doomed your TWC and shoot at them with Fire Dragons, or rushed them with Howling Banshees. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/205316-are-thunderwolves-made-of-cheese/page/2/#findComment-2450176 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 That could have been it though, mindwar would probly do a number on one of them, two farseers, or eldrad, could cripple a 3-4 man TWC unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/205316-are-thunderwolves-made-of-cheese/page/2/#findComment-2450203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MylesTheTroll Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 That could have been it though, mindwar would probly do a number on one of them, two farseers, or eldrad, could cripple a 3-4 man TWC unit. Very true. Though, I'd picture those TWC being in assault after the first time it hits them thus making it significantly harder to kill them with that power. Also, for future reference OP, if the Eldar player is using Mind War, then just stay outside the powers range (can't remember if the reach is 18" or 24") with your TWC, and pounce (would work the best if it the range is 18") on him when the opportunity presents itself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/205316-are-thunderwolves-made-of-cheese/page/2/#findComment-2450213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmk17 Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Watched an Eldar player go to town on an all TWC army. The little power that denies all saves cut through them hard. Eldar have a power that ignore saves, or are you talking about doom? Doom allows an eldar player to reroll fail wounds against the doom unit. Is a great little power to take multiwound units down. Not sure how well the TWC would fair against a seer council with the always wound on 2s and higher initiative.... they can doom the squad and fortune themselves. also if on bikes their range is prety far. Any eldar player comment on this ? Dark reapers are evil against armor 3, and they will get multiple round of shooting at the wolves if teamed up with a nightspinner. Orks can probably dispatch them easy enough with their ork mob swamping , and their units are cheap so is a good trade. Marines have the option to use lysander who intant kills a thunderwolf on a wound that is not saved, also used for nob bikers..... What works on ork bikers will work on thunderwolves. Marines also have the option to back it up with null zone , forcing a reroll on succesful invulnerable saves during the marine players turn. Sternguard with wound on 2 round , or unloading 10 combi meltas (50 points), or just using ap3 bolters can take a fair chunk out of them. Blood angels have mephiston, with the STR 10 force sword, he will always hit first against them , may not take the whole unit down but will take out a good chunk. also asteroth's axe has a null field built into it. also things that give dangerous or difficult terrain are useful in delaying their aproach. shoot the chopie , chop the shootie. TWC just needs alot of work to take down , but that is what makes them a good unit. Want to say it was Mind War... can't remember the name. But he mentioned it only allowed Cover Saves. Mind War only affects one specific enemy model of Eldar players choosing. No more. No less. And even then, a roll off based off the Farseer and target's Leadership values must happen. Doom allows for all failed "to wound" rolls to be re-rolled against one enemy unit. Fortune grants a friendly unit the ability to re-roll failed saves. Guide twin-links a friendly unit. And Eldritch Storm does S3 AP- large blast damage. As an Eldar player as well, I'm intrigued as to what he did. All I can think of is that he doomed your TWC and shoot at them with Fire Dragons, or rushed them with Howling Banshees. Wasn't mine. Was our local cheese-monger, who can't unload his thunderwolf army for his new dream of Sanguinary Guard and Dante. I laugh about that a little every day. Guy buys/builds a cheesy army list or one using cheesy mechanics (ie. wound allocation) and plays it until he finds something he sees as MORE cheesy. Then he tries to unload his current army to build the new one. I'll ask the eldar player next time I see him and get back to you, it was an interesting game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/205316-are-thunderwolves-made-of-cheese/page/2/#findComment-2450325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Bloodglaive Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 He's dreaming. Sanguinary Guard are good, but they're small expensive squads with no invulnerable save. Thunderwolves are small expensive squads but (by making them more expensive) they can all have invulnerable saves. Throw equal numbers of Thunderwolves and Sanguinary Guard at each other, and I'm fairly certain that the Wolves will come out on top. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/205316-are-thunderwolves-made-of-cheese/page/2/#findComment-2450490 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nougat Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 Honestly, yeah they're cheesy, if you buy the concept of "cheese" in tabletop games in the first place. That's the real question here. They take advantage of the wound allocation rules, just like Nob Bikers, to become much much better than they would be otherwise. They just generally dominate the battle plans of both players, making for a fairly one dimensional game. If they're not "cheesy" then I don't know what is. However, different people play different ways, and I wouldn't mind playing against them. I would advise taking them based on the level of powergaming mentality in your gaming group. Some people are more interested in a casual, fluffy kind of battle, in which case they might not find much enjoyment in getting creamed by your Deathstar. However, if your local metagame consists of lots of cookie-cutter army lists full of Lash, Vendettas, or whatever, then tell 'em to man up! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/205316-are-thunderwolves-made-of-cheese/page/2/#findComment-2450618 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodf Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 Watched an Eldar player go to town on an all TWC army. The little power that denies all saves cut through them hard. Eldar have a power that ignore saves, or are you talking about doom? Doom allows an eldar player to reroll fail wounds against the doom unit. Is a great little power to take multiwound units down. Not sure how well the TWC would fair against a seer council with the always wound on 2s and higher initiative.... they can doom the squad and fortune themselves. also if on bikes their range is prety far. Any eldar player comment on this ? Dark reapers are evil against armor 3, and they will get multiple round of shooting at the wolves if teamed up with a nightspinner. Orks can probably dispatch them easy enough with their ork mob swamping , and their units are cheap so is a good trade. Marines have the option to use lysander who intant kills a thunderwolf on a wound that is not saved, also used for nob bikers..... What works on ork bikers will work on thunderwolves. Marines also have the option to back it up with null zone , forcing a reroll on succesful invulnerable saves during the marine players turn. Sternguard with wound on 2 round , or unloading 10 combi meltas (50 points), or just using ap3 bolters can take a fair chunk out of them. Blood angels have mephiston, with the STR 10 force sword, he will always hit first against them , may not take the whole unit down but will take out a good chunk. also asteroth's axe has a null field built into it. also things that give dangerous or difficult terrain are useful in delaying their aproach. shoot the chopie , chop the shootie. TWC just needs alot of work to take down , but that is what makes them a good unit. Want to say it was Mind War... can't remember the name. But he mentioned it only allowed Cover Saves. Mind War only affects one specific enemy model of Eldar players choosing. No more. No less. And even then, a roll off based off the Farseer and target's Leadership values must happen. Doom allows for all failed "to wound" rolls to be re-rolled against one enemy unit. Fortune grants a friendly unit the ability to re-roll failed saves. Guide twin-links a friendly unit. And Eldritch Storm does S3 AP- large blast damage. As an Eldar player as well, I'm intrigued as to what he did. All I can think of is that he doomed your TWC and shoot at them with Fire Dragons, or rushed them with Howling Banshees. Wasn't mine. Was our local cheese-monger, who can't unload his thunderwolf army for his new dream of Sanguinary Guard and Dante. I laugh about that a little every day. Guy buys/builds a cheesy army list or one using cheesy mechanics (ie. wound allocation) and plays it until he finds something he sees as MORE cheesy. Then he tries to unload his current army to build the new one. I'll ask the eldar player next time I see him and get back to you, it was an interesting game. I like those people , is a good way to pick up cheap armies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/205316-are-thunderwolves-made-of-cheese/page/2/#findComment-2451319 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wysten Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 I would never know, I never quite could muster the courage to bite a thunder wolf! But yeah, they are hard hitting and move really quickly, and incredable resistance due to wound arranging is cheesy. As it's typically bypassing their weakpoint by dumping the wound on one wolf. Though in hindsight it makes sense, with one wolve sheilding overs. I would imagine it would be really annoying if I was not familar with the space wolves codex though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/205316-are-thunderwolves-made-of-cheese/page/2/#findComment-2451441 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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