Destroyed transport and it's occupants

[EPK]

I understand per page 67 of the rulebook that the attacker that destroyed a transport now has the permission to assault the occupants that disembarked.

 

However, the argument has arisen that they are the ONLY unit that can assault those occupants however anyone can still shoot them.

 

I tend to see the rule as an exception to the normal rules that gives the attacker the right to attack two units in a sense (first the transport it destroyed and then second the unit that was inside). However, all other attackers follow shooting rules as normal and therefore follow normal assault rules as well. The word "only" is absent from the rule on page 67.

 

Consensus?

[stinkenheim]

There's a big topic about it here.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...mp;hl=destroyed

 

probably better to have a read through and either post any relevent points in that one or simply come to your own conclusion based on the arguments presented within.

 

Good luck.

[EPK]

Hah, yea I just found that in mean time. Looks like there is arguments in both directions, that does not bode well for coming to a conclusion.

 

In addition, that thread hasn't been posted on for over two months and appears to be convoluted with two different yet related arguments. I have no desire to argue over the semantics of the phrase "the unit..." and whether any other unit that shot at the transport (even if they didn't destroy it) can assault it's occupants. I was simply asking that once that squad is out in the open, can they be shot AND assaulted by another unit.

 

But I get your point.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

In shooting, unit A pops unit 1's transport. Unit B may now hose the passengers with shooting.

 

In each Phase, things are done sequentially. Unit Q moves and this allows unit R to occupy the ground held by Q.

 

+++

 

On reading BBB pg 67, I cannot see any reason for unit Y, that did not pop the transport to not be able to assault the now exposed passengers.

 

It doesn't say that only X may assault the now exposed passengers. It says they may assault the passengers. X needs to be given that permission because it is an exception to the rules that Transport and Passengers are not actually a single unit, nor are they necessarily from one FOC slot.

 

Does it say that only X may assault the passengers? No.

It provides an exception to the General rule (of not being able to shoot and assault different units)

 

Units Y, Z, etc. may still assault (or shoot, for that matter) the now exposed passengers as long as they have not already shot something else.

 

Tactically, this puts an emphasis on target priority and shooting sequence.

[Seahawk]

It's all about context, which many seem to not grasp. The paragraph saying the unit can assault it is in regards to the unit the shot the transport and what it can do during it's shooting and assault phase. In any case, following the standard assault rules:

 

- Pick a unit (I pick a unit that didn't fire this turn)

- Declare which enemy unit it is going to assault (I declare that now disembarked unit)

- Move the assaulting unit (yes)

etc

 

Clear cut, no problems.

[stinkenheim]

Sorry, I must have skimmed through your opening post.

 

Lets assume the transport is a Devilfish with Firewarriors inside. The DF is destroyed by a lascannon shot from a tactical squad. The remaining members of that squad are unable to shoot at the now visible FWs as all shooting for a unit is declared at the same time. When the lascannon shot was decalred the FWs weren't a viable target.

However, other units that have LOS to the FWs and that haven't yet peformed an action in the shooting phase are now allowed to target them.

So assume we have a land speeder that has popped round a building hopin for just this to happen. There would be nothing preventing that LS from opening up on the FWs so long as they were in range and LOS.

Any unit that has shot at the disembarked FWs is now free to assault them as per the normal rules. Certainly the unit that destroyed the transport would be able to assault as per the normal restrictions. Depending on your group ay unit that shot the transport may now be able to charge the FWs.

Basically once out of the vehicle they are a normal unit so can be assaulted by anyone as per the normal restricitons.

[nurglez]

However. Unit A is in assault range of the vehicle, shoots it, and fails to destroy. Unit B shoots and destroys the vehicle, can Unit A now assault the disembarked unit? The rules just aren't clear about this.

 

Of course as soon as a unit disembarks they are a normal unit and can be shot/assaulted etc by anything that could normally do it.

[dswanick]

BRB, pg 33, The Assault Phase - "In addition to the above, a unit that fired in the Shooting phase can only assault the unit that it shot at - it cannot assault a different unit to the one it previously shot at. However, see the exception over the page for multiple targets."

BRB, pg 67, Effects of damage results on passengers - "Note: remember that all models in a single unit fire simultaneously, so a squad cannot take out a transport with its lascannon and then mow down the occupants with their bolters. However, if a transport is destroyed (either result) by a ranged attack, the unit that shot it may assault the now disembarked passengers, if it is allowed to assault according to the assault rules."

 

So unit A shoots a transport but fails to destroy it. Unit B shoots and destroys a transport. The passengers pile out, and obviously unit B can assault them in the assault phase, per normal rules. The question you are asking is can unit A assault them also, because they shot the transport and the rule does not say "if a transport is destroyed (either result) by a ranged attack, only the unit that shot it may assault the now disembarked passengers,"? Obviously that would be clearest, but equally the rule does say "if a transport is destroyed (either result) by a ranged attack, the unit that shot it may assault the now disembarked passengers,", and unit is singular. If they wanted all units to have this ability they could have typed "if a transport is destroyed (either result) by a ranged attack, the units that shot it may assault the now disembarked passengers,". So either they meant for it to work this way, or they typoed and wrote unit instead of units - given GWs record with rules and editing oversight, who knows. Until a FAQ is released the argument will rage on, although I will continue to allow opponents to assault a disembarked units with all units that shot the transport.

[EPK]

Thanks for the answers guys. Seems people tend to think the same way as me.

 

To reiterate my question, I simply asked if Unit A pops a transport can Unit B charge the now exposed occupants (along with Unit A).

 

@ nurglez and dswanick: I was not asking if Unit A shoots and fails to destroy the transport, can they charge and that is one of the arguments you can find in the other link that stinkenheim posted above I believe. No need to spiral down that path as per that other thread it is obviously a very debatable rule.

 

My question however, does not seem to be as debatable. There is really no reason that Unit B can not shoot and charge the now exposed occupants of a transport after Unit A has popped it.