BA Mutations

[Chaplain Hiltraud]

Ok, so I posted this topic over in Amicus Aedes but never got a reply. Probably because it's not a good idea... :teehee:

But I'd still like to know your thoughts. Anyways:

 

If a marine were to have a mutation ((sinister fangs, a strange mouth and black eyes to be specific)) would it go unnoticed long enough for the chapter (I'm talking about a successor chapter here) to get up to a good size and strength before anyone pulled the plug?

 

The reason I'm asking is would it be viable that a successor chapter of Blood Angels(ie my Blood Wraiths) was deemed renegade by the big =][= after it was revealed they have a mutation? The mutation isn't noticable by eye unless the mouth fully opens and they "feed" so it went unnoticed for a while? :sweat:

 

I'm thinking the mutation will have something to do with the people from their homeworld...

 

After the =][= noticed the chapters extreme blood lust and ferocity on and off the battle feild and the fact that something about them was a miss, they began to investigate and found more than they bargined for. Once the mutation was found out, the =][= deemed it has to be a mark of chaos and now most of the Imperium considers them renegade? (they aren't though, the chapter is quite the opposite. They are just cursed) I don't know, i'm just rambling....

 

Or would a mutation as described be frowned upon from the very start? Or is it just a bad idea? :wacko:

 

Yours in Honour and Faith,

Chaplain Hiltraud

[toaae]

It's completely possible. It can take centuries for an Inquisitor to investigate such a thing, and maybe it was just one, over the top event in plain sight that caused their secret to be revealed. Go for it.

[daboarder]

not just possible but more likely to be the norm, all geneseed has degenerated since the heresy and most chapters have munations of some sort. such as the BA fangs.

[Wysten]

Aye, Space Marines in general effectively stand apart from the rest of the imperiaum in function, for most people, Space Marines are just a myth. Hence that aside from submitting gene seed for testing, it's pretty hard for =][= to keep track of Space Marines without a really good reason or a report from someone who knows what they are talking about. (Basically, anyone who's not your average person, since they would be stunned to see a space marine, never mind a mutent one. Since they are all into the religon of the empire, they would probably describe them all as Halos on wings crushing the foe before them, if they did indeed live long enough to say much about it.)

 

 

So yeah, it's fully possible that they started off healthy and degraded since then. Just as long as the gene seed remained relatively stable. In this case, they would probably notice it was not, =][= will investigate and behold, a renegade chapter. So yeah, it's fully possible. ^^

[Rider-75]

subtle mutations like those you describe could easily be overlooked by external observers.

 

remember marines will essentially be fully armoured in combat theatres and with the helmet on, no-one is going to see them.

 

whether the chapter itself deals with the mutation, or there's a reason for not dealing with it, would be all part of your fluffy backstory.

[Sanguinarian]

I wouldn't worry about the Big "I" ruining your day for simple mutations. After all, Space Marines are ALL mutations. More of a concern would be your army's loyalties: for or against the Emperor. Actions for or against weigh more heavily than fangs or feeding frenzies. We are BLOOD Angels. Unlike our cousins thrice removed and twice by pact in baby blue that rip off legs and arms and throw them on the BBQ grill!?! If you could match the actions of my Knights of Blood whereas we believe that if a few can fall to the wily machinations of Chaos, so can they all and we exterminate the whole lot of them when our aid is needed, THEN you can truly call yourself "Renegade".

[Leonaides]

If a marine were to have a mutation ((sinister fangs, a strange mouth and black eyes to be specific)) would it go unnoticed long enough for the chapter (I'm talking about a successor chapter here) to get up to a good size and strength before anyone pulled the plug?

 

Or would a mutation as described be frowned upon from the very start? Or is it just a bad idea? :(

 

Bearing in mind that at the start there will be a lot of testing and checking to make sure that the geneseed is stable, during the creation of the chapter, and a lot of 'outsiders' will be involved (either Magos Biologis techpriests, or apothecaries from another chapter) who will notice due to all the very thorough checks and tests that they will be doing on every marine, and then exterminate mutated subjects before they can infect the rest of the geneseed pool, your chapter would have to start without the mutation.

 

Then you'd have to explain why, given that they dont have the mutation, the Chapters Apothecaries themselves (once they are all set up and trained) dont exterminate any mutant initiates... Why would a bunch of marines who have sworn a sacred oath to protect and defend the purity of their chapters geneseed allow it to become debased? It would have to involve a conspiracy involving every single apothecary, every single trainees apothecary and anyone else who might wonder why Brother Y just yawned and an extra set of jaws came out... Which is basically the entire chapter. So why would the entire chapter want to encourage this mutation is what I'm really wondering?

[Red Fury]

Perhaps the mutation could happen to the marines after time? Then those afflicted be this mutation would be purged from the chapter by forming suicide squads on the battlefield to fight one last time, becoming your 'counts as' Death Co.

 

-Fury

[Leonaides]

True, but the OP seems to want to have the whole chapter infected/mutated...

[daboarder]

thats perfectly reasonable, as stated previously almost ALL marine chapters have slight mutations and what not that are common throughout the chapter due to degredation of the geneseed.

[Chaplain Hiltraud]

Indeed, I do wish for the whole chapter to be accursed with the mutation. I'm thinking that the entire chapter started out as per the norm but fairly quickly the intitiates began to mutate. This mutation is due to the people recruited from the world, I'm making up fluff but I'm thinking that the 'warrior' people on this particular world have certain traits and rituals that will tie in with the mutation, they weren't really a good base to start with so to speak. Good warriors but didn't take the geneseed well?? IDK

 

Also, like I mentioned before, the mutation will be subtle. My thoughts are Black eyes, ugly pale skin, no hair, yellow face markings, fanged mouth. So not really that bad to start with right? ((I went off the idea of a strange mouth, to much influence from Blade 2)) It's the Blood Wraiths attitude and what they do to the enemy that will make them renegades in the eyes of the =][= and as such most of the Imperium has also deemed them renegades. Surely a loyalist doesn't act like this??

 

Is it Angels Encarmine or Sanguine that don't take off their helmuts around their battle brothers? I'm putting that in my fluff also.

 

The BA in them makes them perfectionists and as such the Blood Wraiths hide their mutated heads around any of their brothers. Only in battle do they show their true face, not just to intimidate and feed on the enemy but also in hope that they will be redemed and blessed with death...

 

And yes all DC will be helm-less and they will be ugly. I'm making some uglies this arvo. I will post a pic here.

 

 

Yours in Honour and Faith,

Chaplain Hiltraud

[Leonaides]

If you're going off the idea of a strange mouth, then there really is little that would cause the Inq to declare you renegade mutants. Eye colour - all cadians have Purple eyes for example, Skin colour - Raven Guard and/or Salamanders have skin colour problems. No hair? Thats jsut purely cosmetic, and most marines probably crop/shave their hair anyway. There are certainly instances where marines are shaved and skin treated with hair growth retardant stuff prior to suiting up for long deployments, let alone the practicalities of short hair making head wounds more easily treatable, and less liely to fall in front of their eyes inside a helmet. Yellow face amrkings? Is that any different to gang tatoos, or tribal markings that other chapters have? Not really.

 

So we are left with your chapter is declared excomunicate by the Inq because they are too ferocious when fighting the enemy? When the BA's (who were on a par with teh World Eaters for bloody and ferocoius assaults) arent declared renegade, where the Marines Malevolent shelled an Imperial Refugee camp to kill a few orks, and didnt even get a slap on the wrist from the Inquisition, where the Lameters, Mantis Warriors and Executioners actually DID rebel against the Imperium, and were forgiven... Heck - even the Flesh Tearers who slaughtered their way through a bunch of orks, then an imperial garrison, are just disliked... I dont actually think that there is any concept of too much ferocity against the enemy when it comes to marines, even the occasional slip-up that involves blue-on-blue can be tolerated.

[Chaplain Hiltraud]

Leonaides: Thanks for the thoughts.. The info you gave in your first paragraph, I had no idea about (ie cadians and raven guard etc) and I'd given little thought to any of it. This mutation thing that I'm going for here is just an idea that rolled out of my mind. I don't have very much knowledge about the 40K universe, I only have knowledge of what I want my models to look like aesthetically and wanted some sort of background for why they do. Hence why I asked if any of this stuff is feasible...

As for the issue of the chapter being renegade, has a successor chapter ever been declared renegade before for something similar...I refer to The Knights of Blood:

"Following several centuries of the most terrible rage-fuelled carnage against enemies and allies alike, The Knights of Blood were finally decreed renegade by the High Lords of Terra"

So why couldn't my chapter be declared renegades by the =][= ? I mean apart from the very subtle mutations, we're basically 'eating' enemies over here! What if some allies got caught up in that when the Blood Wraiths were in a 'feeding frenzy' so to speak? What if the DC went berserk and ripped some allies limb from limb and then consumed some of their blood like wild deamons?

BTW when I say allies I'm refering to guardsmen of course! :P

 

[EDIT] In regards to me dropping the strange mouth idea, it was only because I didn't want to go too Reapers-from-Blade-2-esque. Maybe the DC will get them. Maybe they won't. I'll see how the test model turns out.

[Jakobus]

I see no real reason why a gene-seed mutation would not occur.

 

Just remember that (and I am trying to find a direct quote) that a percentage of every loyalist chapters’ gene-seed is submitted to the Adeptus Mechanicus to monitor the health of that strain of the geneseed.

 

Fluff wise it could be that a mutation of the geneseed was noted but judged to be within safe parameters for variation, since pretty much every chapter (apparently except Ultramarines but just another reason for their boringness) have some level of genetic mutation it would be noted and stored within some gargantuan vault.

Then, something along the lines that some Inquisitor was on a planet that the chapter deployed to and witnessed aberrant behaviour, requested that their geneseed be retested and then was able to open a full inquisitorial investigation into the Chapter resulting in either the chapter being "cleared" of corruption or have some Blackships turn up to escort them off somewhere, to which they flip the bird and bugger off.

 

I would recommend (depending on how in-depth you feel like going with the details of the mutation) that you look at stage 8 of the creation of a Space marine, the Omophagea.

 

==edited for clarity and extra detail and spelling==

[Leonaides]

So, like I said - wahy should your guys get in trouble for messily slaughtering the enemies of mankind. Using marines is only 1 step down from exterminatus (or something like that in the 3rd ed codex). The Knights of Blood got into trouble for slaughtering allies for centuries, just the same as they slaughtered enemies. If thats what you want to do to get your chapter disowned, then do it, but nothing you've said so far has suggested this. You've focussed on what you've been doing to the enemies of the imperium...

[spu00sed]

It all depends who the allies are that you are eating.

 

Some guardmen, no problem, saves the imperium the problem of redeploying.

 

A high [rriest of the church, his battle sister escort and a witch hunter, then you have some problems.

 

Maybe your boys just ate the wrong person at the wrong time and someone applied sp,e pressure to get them excommunicated (they are obviously chaotic if they are eating the emperors priests).

[Chaplain Hiltraud]

Thanks Jakobus, I will look into the Omophagea and expand my knowledge a bit more on the creation of space marines. Anyone know where a decent read of this can be found??

 

Leonaides. This is my first DIY chapter. I'm still exploring the possibilities with them and am trying real hard to create some decent fluff about them. I enjoy playing BA but just wanted to do something different. I have an over active imagination which is always ticking coming up with new ideas etc.

Most articles I have read about the =][= has said that there are some extreme 'left wing conservatists' who view psychers and mutants as herectics. What's to say that the investigation of my chapter wasn't lead by one of these guys? And he was an extremist who saw some things he wasn't meant to and then flipped out and went on a "what these SM's are doing is HERESY!" campaign and convinced the Imperium that they are..What I'm trying to tell you is that in a fictional world, anything is possible..just keep your mind open to it.

 

Yours in Honour and Faith,

Chaplain Hiltraud

[Leonaides]

No worries, I'm not trying ot say these things in a bad way, but only want to highlight things that seem to 'stick out' as being somewhat odd, so you can reconsider/alter what you intend to write to fit (if you want - you can always completely ignore me).

 

Its possible that an extremist Inquisitor was doing the assessment on your chapter, but dont rely too much on this, as if he was known to be an extremist then other inquistors may take rather a lot of convincing to believe him, especially as certain sectors of the imperium may already believe that all marines are mutants/heretics (Ecclesiarchy I'm looking at you!). You may find it useful to have a look at the stickied topics in the Liber Astartes forum, as there are some useful background notes in there, and you can also have a nice snoop through waht other people have done and said - you might pick up some ideas that way as well.