My 1st Newbie dumb dumb question!

[narius]

So, I find myself as a 35 year old puzzled over a rule in the rulebook! I'd really appreciate a bit of help to what is probably a really simple question.

 

When you shoot or assault a vehicle, I get it that if it's not moved you essentially "Auto hit" but it's when you roll for armour penetration I'm a bit confused. For example I had a practice this afternoon with a 5 man termy CC squad assaulting a rhino. It has it's 10 attacks plus 5 for the assault bonus, do you roll 15 times for AP? Surely you'd get a loads of different results, do you just pick the best result? what am I doing wrong??

[Heimdall Skullcrusher]

Yes, you would roll 15 armor penetrations (though they might be different weapon types which you need to keep in mind) as they all "hit". And you figure out how many penetrating and/or glancing hits you got. Then you roll each one of those seperately taking whatever you get in order. Once a vehicle is destroyed you can stop rolling (I.E., your first hit wrecks the vehicle you dont roll anymore even if you have more glancing/penetrating hits)

 

NOTE: That was only for close combat. For shooting you don't auto-hit. That is handled normally. Some vehicles that move get a cover save versus shooting

[njm3]

If all the weapons are the same, yes, roll to pen as a group.

 

Then roll all the glance results together, and roll all the penetrate results together.

 

If the weapons are different strength values (LC/Power fists), keep them separate through the AP step, but you can roll them with the other glance/pen dice groups.

 

Remember to use the rear armor stat of the vehicle.

 

edit:

hmmm... looking at Heimdall's quicker reply, I'd say that since all the pen/glance results happen at the same time (for each different type of weapon), you'd roll for results as a group, not one by one.

 

Same effect as shooting... if a squad of 10 lascannons shot at a tank, you'd roll it all as a batch ("roll a d6 for each shot that glanced or penetrated..." p61).

 

Makes it far more likely to have a 'splodes result in a batch thank if you rolled one by one.

 

Now with a mixed group of weapons (non-powerfists and powerfists) the glance/pen results of the non-powerfists would be resolved before the powerfist results, I'mma thinkin.

 

edit edit:

right, no auto hit for shooting, was answering the CC side of things.

[greatcrusade08]

for every hit you cause on a vehicle you roll once on the table.. a glance is -2 on the table.

 

In the case of 15 power fist attacks on a stationary vehicle then yes youll get auto hits and therefore 15 attempts to damage the vehicle.

 

Before you roll on the damage table you first have to see if your hits (or auto hits cause damage) and you do this byu rolling a D6 and adding your Strength to it.. in the case of power fists thats S8+D6, you also hit against rear armour value.

 

If the number equals its a glance, if its over its a pen hit.

 

For every hit you then roll on the table, all results are used, so if you roll two weapon destroyed, an immobilised and a stunned all thins will happen.. once you roll a wrecked or destroyed then its nopt worth considering the rest as youve killed it.. if you roll boht a wrecked and destroyed you take the highest roll which would be vehicle destroyed

[Frosty the Pyro]

1. shooting does not instant hit vehicles, even stationary ones, its done by balistic skill.

 

2. Yes you roll penitration for each hit. In a way each atack can be considere in a vacume. Rhinos have rear armor of 10. Assuming your squad is all hammers (which as you are only getting 15 attacks must be so) then you will roll 15 AP dice, and add 8 (Strength of attacks with thunder hamers). So each die that rolls a 1 you can ignore (as 8+1 is less than 10 and does nothing) Each dice that rolls a 2 gives you a glancing hit. And each dice that rolls a 3 or higher gives you a penitrating hit.

[narius]

1. shooting does not instant hit vehicles, even stationary ones, its done by balistic skill.

 

2. Yes you roll penitration for each hit. In a way each atack can be considere in a vacume. Rhinos have rear armor of 10. Assuming your squad is all hammers (which as you are only getting 15 attacks must be so) then you will roll 15 AP dice, and add 8 (Strength of attacks with thunder hamers). So each die that rolls a 1 you can ignore (as 8+1 is less than 10 and does nothing) Each dice that rolls a 2 gives you a glancing hit. And each dice that rolls a 3 or higher gives you a penitrating hit.

 

Ok, So when I get to the point where i've rolled my armour penetration dice, I will make a pile of dice that scored higher than 3 and a pile which scored 2 (For terminators with TH), then I use the modifiers accordingly and roll for each hit on the Vehicle damage table. Ideally I would be wanting a "Destroyed - Explodes!" Result to destroy the vehicle? If I get more than 1 result of a 3 (Damaged - Weapon Destroyed) it would destroy more than 1 weapon?

[njm3]

yes, make two piles of dice, penetrating ones and glancing ones.

 

each weapon destroyed result destroys one weapon. If you destroy all the weapons, _and_ the vehicle is immobilized (not stationary, immobilized) the vehicle counts as destroyed, per p61

 

Ideally you want the vehicle destroyed, not 'splodin', since your termies are going to be trapped in the blast.

[BlackSpike]

Yup.

You pick up your "2"s, and roll all of them on the Vehicle Damage Table (with -2 for Glance), and then pick up all your "3+"s and roll them on the VDT.

Apply all results. (With 15 rolls at s8 vs AV10, I'm expecting at least one "6"!)

 

We tend to apply them from the top down:

Got any 6s? Roll an Explosion radius, don't bother noting those Stuns and Wpn Dstryd!

No 6s, but 5s? Wreck. Stop rolling.

Only 4s and less? Add 'em up*. Each "3" takes off a weapon, until they are all gone, and then becomes Immobilised.

No matter how many Stun and Shakes you get, it only applies once/1 turn. :lol:

 

As to wanting an explosion - depends. With your Termies, probably yes. It will catch all your guys, but they'll pass their Armour saves. His guys inside will also take hits as they leap out.

If you were using lesser-armoured troops, you might prefer to roll a "5", but we always play you have to roll all of the hits.

 

EDIT: *Add the RESULTS, not the dice!

[BlackSpike]

And if you want a quick mathhammer:

15 Attacks, S8, AV10 (Rear)

2-3 "1"s - No Damage.

2-3 "2"s - Glancing hits. If you're lucky, a Immobilise or Weapon Destroyed, Don't bank on it.

10 "3+"s - Penetrating hit! You should get at least one "6", and one "5", so Vehicle Terminated!

Fair, a 200pt squad of Close Combat Specialists should knock a stationary 40pt golf cart from here to Terra!

 

Now roll the rhino forwards at 5", and 11". See how the results change!

[Grey Mage]

1. shooting does not instant hit vehicles, even stationary ones, its done by balistic skill.

 

2. Yes you roll penitration for each hit. In a way each atack can be considere in a vacume. Rhinos have rear armor of 10. Assuming your squad is all hammers (which as you are only getting 15 attacks must be so) then you will roll 15 AP dice, and add 8 (Strength of attacks with thunder hamers). So each die that rolls a 1 you can ignore (as 8+1 is less than 10 and does nothing) Each dice that rolls a 2 gives you a glancing hit. And each dice that rolls a 3 or higher gives you a penitrating hit.

 

Ok, So when I get to the point where i've rolled my armour penetration dice, I will make a pile of dice that scored higher than 3 and a pile which scored 2 (For terminators with TH), then I use the modifiers accordingly and roll for each hit on the Vehicle damage table. Ideally I would be wanting a "Destroyed - Explodes!" Result to destroy the vehicle? If I get more than 1 result of a 3 (Damaged - Weapon Destroyed) it would destroy more than 1 weapon?

Yes, though 5-wrecked is just as good in most situations.

 

If you were assaulting say a Predator, and got three weapon destroyed results you could take both sponson weapons- each one is removed individually- and the turret weapon using those.

[narius]

Thanks everyone for the help, I think I've got it sorted now. Annoying how the rule book gets really vague in points like that!

[Ashe Darke]

each weapon destroyed result destroys one weapon. If you destroy all the weapons, _and_ the vehicle is immobilized (not stationary, immobilized) the vehicle counts as destroyed, per p61

Not quite, if it gets another weapon destroyed or immobilised result when it has no weapons and is already immobilised then it is a wreck. It can be unable to fire or move permanently and still not be a wreck.