Stormraven, too squishy?

[Daedalus Templarius]

So, I have 4 landraiders and a Valk proxying as a Stormraven.

 

In the games I've used the stormraven, it's managed to do its job and deliver my troops, but is generally destroyed quickly after. 12 armor is just paper thin vs what I usually fight against (IG with tons of tanks/arty). My LRs on the other hand, almost always manage to survive, even after dropping a payload of death into enemy lines.

 

Our battlefield has a ton of buildings, etc, that my LRs can always get full cover behind, however the SR sits so high up it is almost always vulnerable to fire from the whole field. If you don't move 13-24" flat out, you can kiss that sweet skimmer save goodbye, and you also can't drop troops and only fire 1 weapon. On the drop move, you don't get that cover save at all, because you can't drop if you move more than 12". Also, if an IG player has the anti-air vehicle, you don't even get the save. Also, an exterminator leman russ is very nasty vs a SR as well with its twin linked heavy 4 autocannon. It basically guarantees a few hits, and the SR seems very vulnerable to autocannon fire.

 

While its payload is impressive, 12 armor just doesn't seem like enough, not to mention its a fire magnet. I wish it was 50 more points, but at least be at 13 armor, or something. If I'm taking a SR, I'd almost rather take another LR for 50 more points.

 

Suggestions, impressions?

[ProteanSun]

I completely understand your point of view. I almost look at it as a more expensive Land Speeder. When I finally get around to building mine I will go for the TL Lascannon and Typhoon Missile Launcher and stay at the far extremes of range, picking off vehicles one at a time.

 

I believe that against a heavy armor army like guard you need to keep in in LOS of only 1 vehicle, the one you are shooting. Easier said than done with Vehicle LOS rules.

[Brother_Dan'l]

Sure they are sort of lightly armored, but like any other vehicle it's also a question of luck. Sometimes the Damage table is your friend and sometimes it ain't. :P

 

I've been fielding a single SR for a few months now and I've had them last anywhere from 1 to 3 turns post delivery. The one turn games are when I was still using them to Deep Strike. Since I've gone to starting on the table or Reserves they've done a much better job. I did learn to stay away from the Multi-meltas though. Got shot up too many times by trying to get inside 12" and then missing even with the re-roll to hit. The Typhoon is a much safer choice. But I am sticking with the Assault Cannons. More dice make more sense.

 

And thanks to "Skies of Blood" you can move over 12" and drop off your payload. Sure you are taking a risk, but being able to zip 24" across the table and then place 12 marines and a Dreadnought ready to shoot on the table top.

[Sanguinarian]

IMO, they shouldn't be in LOS until Turn 3-4. With 4 LRs, I'd clear the table off first and then run them flat-out 24" to capture, claim or contest objectives on the last 2 turns.

[Captain Idaho]

Speaking as an envious Codex Space Marine player, I would love to have a Storm Raven in my army! Sure AV12 could be better, but then every Lascannon that fires at it won't target the Rhinos and Dreadnoughts!

[Daedalus Templarius]

Well the ceramite plating helps mitigate meltas a bit... I am much more frightened of battle cannons, eagle rockets, twin linked autocannons, etc.

 

I guess the one really good thing about them is, after they dump that dread in the back lines, there is a huge threat there in the back row, and the Land Raiders are still coming from the front.

 

I guess I'll see how it works for me this weekend, but damn I wish it had a little more armor.

[Zeller]

Too squishy? No, give me a break. It's an aircraft not a tank. They're like any other skimmer in the game. Virtually every skimmer is AV12 except the light skimmers plus the melta protection is huge. Plus all the weapons being twin-linked and BS4 gives us a huge advantage over the other skimmers. Add in POTMS and ours is even better still.

 

Autocannons and missile launchers are their bane and that's just the way it is. If your opponents have plenty of anti-armor that chews you up then destroy them before bringing your birds onto the field. Deepstrike melta units to kill his anti-air units. Then bring your birds in on reserves. Or you can mount them on a really low base since we don't have an offical model.

[Sanguinarian]

Well the ceramite plating helps mitigate meltas a bit... I am much more frightened of battle cannons, eagle rockets, twin linked autocannons, etc.

 

I guess the one really good thing about them is, after they dump that dread in the back lines, there is a huge threat there in the back row, and the Land Raiders are still coming from the front.

 

I guess I'll see how it works for me this weekend, but damn I wish it had a little more armor.

 

I play against Dark Eldar and their Dark Lances turn my 2 LRs, 2 Baal Preds, Vindicator and DC Dread into FAV 12!?! So, I wouldn't have a problem with the SR's FAV 12. ;)

[Zid]

I've ran mine in 3 games, and heres the breakdown;

 

Game 1 - TB onto the board. Blasted by 7 missile launchers. Failed the 2 cover saves, it wrecked. My DC ate some stuff.

Game 2 - TB onto the board vs another BA player. MM wrecked a rhino. He shot it with 2 meltas. Penned once. I failed my cover (yet again), blew up.

Game 3 - TB onto the board in a team game, MM wrecked a rhino. Made my cover finally (yay!) moved 12" next turn, DC and thedread killed; 1 waveserpent, 6 longfangs, a rhino, and the remaining 3 guys in a seer council in a huge multi-assault from hell.

 

The main thing I've learned with my raven is to turboboost onto the board if you go second (army pending), or start as far up as you can if going first. Turboboost your first turn. The main thing is the cover. They will lob everything they have to take it down, and sure AV 12 is low, but just like valkyries, its all about that cover save. Extra armor is a MUST (so you can keep moving), and if they ignore your payload to keep shootng at the raven, I say; hell yeah! My DC will, on average, make back their points if they get the drop. Or, they will create a huge threat in the middle of their army they have to take down.

 

And yes, some armies have a much bigger advantage (guard) when facing the raven. But we're paying 200 pts for a skimming landraider... yes, it dies quicker. But it holds 2 units, moves over obsticles, and rarely runs the risk of getting stuck midfield due to a bad DT roll, and will normally get you close enough to a foe to charge something!

[Daedalus Templarius]

I suppose I've used it in 3 games thus far.

First game, delivered payload (Furioso Lib Dread), commenced blowing things up, game was over by turn 3. Both Landraiders made it, unloaded death on 2nd turn, 5/6 tanks were burning death.

 

2nd game, delivered payload, brought death, may have gotten shot down.

 

3rd game, got shot down(by 12" meltaguns no less) before delivering payload, but payload all survived and did serious damage.

 

So I guess I'll see how it does again tomorrow. I figure the hurricane bolters will do some damage to guard on foot.

[Mattsama]

Quite frankly, I think the problem is that you're running 4 LRs and 1 SR. Of coarse it's not surviving... It's the only thing your opponent has a SOLID chance of killing quickly. But thats just my opinion...

[Daedalus Templarius]

Actually, for my current list (2000), I am only running 2 LRs and a SR... but your point stands. He doesn't have much chance of taking out the LRs from range, heh.

[Yogi]

I think the land raider has just spoiled you.

 

Tanks normally if focused on blow up.

[Daedalus Templarius]

Bleh, Stormraven was swiftly destroyed today after being immobilized after a flat out move(which I'd better do to get that 4+ cover save) by a LRuss Exterminator (one with TLAC). I guess it lasted until it dropped off the Furioso Dread, which was also destroyed shortly after by a melta squad.

 

Landraiders came through without a scratch though, and I think my GK terms + corb shrugged off fire from his entire army. Go go storm shields and 2+ armor saves.

[Grey Mage]

I think the land raider has just spoiled you.

 

Tanks normally if focused on blow up.

Exactly.

 

Frankly, as an Eldar player Im kind of embarrassed at all of you. Seriously.

[Captain Idaho]

Frankly, as an Eldar player Im kind of embarrassed at all of you. Seriously.

 

As you are an Eldar player I am embarrassed for you you! ^_^ Didn't think I would see a Space Wolve-Eldar halfbreed! :)

 

I agree though. AV12 on a Fast heavy transport that can fly Dreads across the table in a single turn, with more guns than a Landraider is fine by me! I would gladly have one in my list!

[Mattsama]

I agree though. AV12 on a Fast heavy transport that can fly Dreads across the table in a single turn, with more guns than a Landraider is fine by me! I would gladly have one in my list!

 

You forgot for 50 points less!! Oh and it carries 5 man termies with a Priest!! ::lol::

[Priest33]

I wish they would just release a model for it so I could play test it some more! Hardest thing for me is not having a model as I dont have the spare cash to make a hybrid stand in as this plastic cocain addition that we call Warhammer 40k is so damn expensive!!!

[billga]

GK terms + Corb??

I thought GK allies got the banned couple weeks ago?

[Sanguinarian]

GW issued a statement allowing allies as per the Codex. Numerous posts pertaining to this topic. :unsure:

[Daedalus Templarius]

You forgot for 50 points less!! Oh and it carries 5 man termies with a Priest!! ::unsure::

 

If you don't add hurricane bolters and extra armor, anyway. Then it is 245.

 

Honestly, I think hurricane bolters are a terrible addition, because you need to get so close for them to be effective. I won't be taking them again, that is for sure.

 

Or I might just take another LR. I'd rather have a chappy+a few DC than a libby dread anyway.

[Brother_Dan'l]

Regular Bolter DC with a Terminator Chaplain and a Blood Talon DCF in a Stormraven is pure magic. Though you could include a jp Librarian with Shield of Sanguinius in there as well for a solid Deathstar.

 

I doubt I'll think the Stormraven is too risky in any game smaller than Apocalypse or if I run into a battery of Hydras.

[Grey Mage]

Frankly, as an Eldar player Im kind of embarrassed at all of you. Seriously.

 

As you are an Eldar player I am embarrassed for you you! :D Didn't think I would see a Space Wolve-Eldar halfbreed! :devil:

 

I agree though. AV12 on a Fast heavy transport that can fly Dreads across the table in a single turn, with more guns than a Landraider is fine by me! I would gladly have one in my list!

That would be the 'Mage' part :(.

 

And dont be, Im probly the most honorable Eldar player youll ever meet. ;)

[Captain Idaho]

Frankly, as an Eldar player Im kind of embarrassed at all of you. Seriously.

 

As you are an Eldar player I am embarrassed for you you! :P Didn't think I would see a Space Wolve-Eldar halfbreed! :)

 

I agree though. AV12 on a Fast heavy transport that can fly Dreads across the table in a single turn, with more guns than a Landraider is fine by me! I would gladly have one in my list!

That would be the 'Mage' part ;).

 

And dont be, Im probly the most honorable Eldar player youll ever meet. ;)

 

Of that I have no doubt. ^_^