Jumping on the Loyalist train

[RagingGriffon]

Hey, you all are jumping on the Chaos train, I figured I would try something new (maybe thinking Loyalist can help my Crimson Warlords )

 

OK, I am brainstorming here, and I need to see if this is feasible. So, here we go:

 

- Veteran Force

-- Approx. 4 Co. strong, and about 5 Scout Co.

--- The 1 Co is used for CCP (Command Control Plans) and TDA use. They are mixed in with the 5 Co.

--- The 5 Cos. are what you would expect a "regular" Chapter's vet sergeants to be

-- Specialize in HVA (High Value Asset) recovery/targetting

-- Mobile Chapter

--- Surgical strikes, not long drawn out warfare

 

- Work closely with XXXXX

-- tasked by XXXXX

-- No other missions matter other than tasking (would ignore planetary distress calls, requests from other Chapters, etc.)

--- strained relations with other Astartes

 

So, as you can see. I probably need help specifically in who would task these people. I know Inquistion is first thing that jumps to mind, but is there any other Administratium that would fit this bill. I want to say the Ordo Sicarius. I know that would be daunting to say the least... but I feel like my Chapter fits the bill.

 

Also, is the organization out of control? I picture a large amount of scouts are needed to prep the battle space, then call in the strikes, etc. I see them spending lots of time as scouts, then moving into the power armor. Obviously, more scouts possibly means higher casualties, so there are more Companies.

 

So, initial reactions.... GO! (flame shield... ON!)

[Shinzaren]

How would they be able to replace losses to the veteran/line companies? Are scouts promoted right away? With only 500ish marines, how would you recoup losses incurred during a heavy campaign?

 

I do like the premise though. You're basically taking the special forces (Space Marines) and building a special forces chapter from there. However, if you tie them to the Ordo Sicarius, you are instead making a Chamber Militant, similar to the Deathwatch or the Grey Knights. If that is your route, then yeah, I think it's got definite potential.

 

Also, where do these marines come from? And where do they gain the experience that makes them the equal to Veteran Sergeants of a normal Chapter? Are they drawn from other Chapters, Deathwatch style? Or, once they transition from Scouts, are they seconded to other Chapters, only returning once their experience and veterancy is proven?

 

And if they have only 5 line companies, do your Scouts immediately join as Devastators/Assault/Tactical marines right off the bat? If so, this would seem to negate the "Veteran" status you seem to be going for.

 

All in all, I find the premise attractive and interesting, I would just like to know more about it. Obviously this is just your roughest draft/outline, but there are a few things that you might want to consider. I hope it works though, especially given the unique opportunities for conflict with other Chapters, who see them as arrogant jerks that refuse to help others. All in all, I look forward to seeing more on the topic.

[Sigismund Himself]

- Veteran Force

-- Approx. 4 Co. strong, and about 5 Scout Co.

--- The 1 Co is used for CCP (Command Control Plans) and TDA use. They are mixed in with the 5 Co.

--- The 5 Cos. are what you would expect a "regular" Chapter's vet sergeants to be

How are they able to maintain more elite marines than other chapters? This seems rather MISS. And why scout companies?

 

-- Specialize in HVA (High Value Asset) recovery/targetting

-- Mobile Chapter

--- Surgical strikes, not long drawn out warfare

That's all Astartes' tasks.

 

 

So, as you can see. I probably need help specifically in who would task these people. I know Inquistion is first thing that jumps to mind, but is there any other Administratium that would fit this bill. I want to say the Ordo Sicarius. I know that would be daunting to say the least... but I feel like my Chapter fits the bill.

I don't think making them associated with the Ordo Sicarius adds anything to them. From what I remember, the Ordo Sicarius monitors the Assassin temples. I don't see how that really fits your marines.

[RagingGriffon]

So, the theme I am getting from you to guys is: How do they replace battle brothers with so few Cos., and what's the deal with the Ordo Sicarius?

 

I just imagined my scouts more on the lines of the initiates, and then regualr Astartes in scout armor (kind of like Space Wolf Scouts) mixed together. Scouting is very important to shape the battle field, so I wanted a solid mix of line troopers and initiates in the Scout Cos. Then, yes they upgrade to Power Armor. In the terms of American military rank, 2nd Lieutenant through mid-level Captain in the Scout Co., and then senior Captains-Lieutenant Colonels in Power Armor, and then Colonels and above in the First Company. I want to keep my numbers low because I think of these guys like Delta Force (no Chuck Norris jokes, please), and I don't want a thousand Delta Force dudes running. I am trying to make it the opposite of MISS.

 

Also, Sigismund, I disagree with you with the "That is all Astartes' tasks." Yes, all Marines are elite fighting machines of destruction. However, some have specialites or are just generalists (in the art of killing lots of things). The Power Armor marines are meant to get in and get out in like 48 hours, where as the scouts might spend a month or more prepping the battle space. Does that makes sense?

 

As far as the Ordo Sicarius, I doubt the only thing they do is look over the Assassin Guilds. I am not saying my Chapter works directly for them (Like the Grey Knights or Death Watch), because then that would be me taking the only slot available and that would not work well in the shared universe thing we got going here in B&C (much like the it is taboo to take the two missing Primarchs). I think of my guys more like the Red Hunters. They are not tied directly to the Inquisition, but they work with them very closely.

 

Yes or no?

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Yes or no?

 

More like yes and no.

 

The problem that people run into with adapting modern military procedures to 40k is that they don't translate very well. The entirety of the Imperium's military structure is broken up with separate organizations for different battlefield roles.

 

The closest force to the militaries we have today would be the Imperial Guard. They have their raw recruits (whiteshields) their standard line infantry (Guardsmen), their veterans and their special forces (Storm Troopers). Along with these (over generalized) sections are Artillery, armoured divisions and yes even dedicated scouts.

 

While the Storm Troopers of 40k would probably translate most closely into something like the British Parachute Regiment (real, high quality, dedicated professional soldiers), Astartes are more like the SAS/Delta Force on steroids.

 

While your definition of what they do differs to what you know from your own current military experience, you're also not fighting on a planetary level or even a continent-wide level. With the fundamental increase in scope you have to broaden the abilities of those forces involved. The Astartes do already perform the tasks you have described but just as any special forces regiment they are also adept at any battlefield situation you care to hand to them.

 

Look at the SAS during WW2. They particiapted in not only HVA targeting, assassinations, raiding and recon operations, they also took part in more general battlefield operations when they were called upon to do so, and with great efficiency.

 

Lets say for the sake of this chapter that on a real world scale that the Special Forces role is to take on small scale, high value operations. In 40k the scope is widened from say a small region in eastern europe here, to the destruction of the command structure for an entire subsector.

 

You widen the scope and the scale of your operation must by necessity increase. They must strike hard and fast with larger numbers than you see in modern warfare because they have to. In any case, marines are always outnumbered.

 

What I want to know is what exactly you are looking for with a chapter of marines who are even more specialized than regular marines, who are the elite of the elite?

 

Oh and by the way I am so very tired, so don't mind me if I'm rambling.

[RagingGriffon]

I appreciate the response, GHY. You never fail to help even when sleepy.

 

I pretty much want a small (relatively speaking) Chapter of Marines, that are very heavy in Scouts (not just initiates, but a mix of line Astartes and initiates), and they reserve the power armor Astartes to give the killing blow. I would like them to get taskings from some Imperial body, I think the Ordo Sicarius would do well with my research of the Imperial structure, and my Chapter is very aloof... even to other Astartes Chapters. They take their taskings as the most important job. They are not overly concerned with humanity, because they feel their taskings help out the Imperium/humanity in the long run.

[Alfhedil]

Why not AdMech, as their explorator fleets would be in need of scouts that would be able to hold their own in case things go south? The AdMech is always looking for new tech somewhere, and would likely be in need of such a specialized force.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

I actually like the idea of them working with the Adeptus Mechanicus. I honestly can't imagine the Mechanicus having the ability to be terribly subtle about their buisness. If they have a chapter of marines on retainer who are in fact their stop gap when they need something between Titan-driven destruction and the Skitarri legions, they can look before they leap.

 

I also think scout forces would be more able to move quickly across worlds that are rumoured to house tech that the Ad Mech want without having to commit to an invasion of sorts in order to retrieve it.

 

I think frankly that you should leave the Ordo Sicarius alone. Assassins, true assassins are a far cry from Astartes and really I think they should be kept apart.

 

Perhaps you can involve them to the extent of supporting Assassin temple operatives, perhaps extracting high-value agents when something goes wrong, or when a situation is underestimated in it's gravity, giving them the role of keeping things contained until heavier forces can respond.

 

I don't though think you should tamper with how the marines are in terms of experience and veterancy in comparison to other chapters, whether they are or arent I think actually stating one way or the other would be a bad idea.

[RagingGriffon]

Perhaps you can involve them to the extent of supporting Assassin temple operatives, perhaps extracting high-value agents when something goes wrong, or when a situation is underestimated in it's gravity, giving them the role of keeping things contained until heavier forces can respond.

 

I <3 GHY. Also, thank you, Alf. So, I am not feeling the AdMech thing, I think it has been done quite often (what was that Games Day Chapter done a couple years back?). I suppose they have handshake agreement with the Ordo Sicarius. I feel what you are saying about being directly tied, though. My Chapter shows up, they know an Assassin is around. I can see my guys doing regualr Astarte stuff, then they just up and leave because they get a tasking from the OS.

 

Does that sound legit?