information on jonsons character?

[chaplain belisarius]

hi,

 

i know he is a brilliant strategist, stubborn, taciturn and not much of a people person but can anyone give me some more information on the character of lion el jonson.

 

Thanks!

[sar mikael]

as far as i know thats pretty much it. he's not so much "not a people person" but just doesnt know how to rightly read and deal with them(and who he can/cant trust). or maybe thats part of his character - his tactical mind weighing up the options before knowing an outcome! but thats for you to decide. if you read the DA black library books aswell as the dex they give you a better picture. but if you read dark angels you might be slightly perturbed by his "good nature", one thing is for certain we dont know what truly happened to lion'el in those woods for so long for him to survive so well! whose help he had or pure luck. or even if he was following what the emperor wanted to the "t"- captain astelan wasnt too happy about that, or was he turned by the powers?!?!?! who knows.

if im wrong or if people can qoute the books tell me im wrong, but thats how i see it of late.

[Octavulg]

He's evil.

 

How do I know this? Take a look at Caliban.

 

Oh right. You can't. Because Jonson annihilated it in his efforts to kill some traitors. His home planet, that he grew up on and dedicated his life to defending.

 

Two-Heads Talking et al are better Space Marines and better men than Jonson ever was.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Where you cal him evil, I would call him determined and wrathful.. :)

[Ronin_eX]

He's evil.

 

How do I know this? Take a look at Caliban.

 

Oh right. You can't. Because Jonson annihilated it in his efforts to kill some traitors. His home planet, that he grew up on and dedicated his life to defending.

 

Two-Heads Talking et al are better Space Marines and better men than Jonson ever was.

 

Actually, while the bombardment did devastate the world it was Chaos that struck the final blow and blew it to pieces when they opened up the big warp rift in time and space and flung the Fallen through it. As for the Tale of Two-Heads Talking, keep in mind that the Deathwing didn't have to deal with planetary defenses, nor did they need to secure air superiority. Hell there was only one bloody city whereas Caliban was more populated and likely had more defenses and population centers.

 

Attacking a primitive pseudo-industrial world and a marine fortress world are two very different tasks. They cannot be easily compared to each other and one can not easily say that Johnson is evil for acting in the way he did. Were he to attempt an orbital drop without counter-battery fire using orbital assets then nothing would reach the ground. Suppression fire is just as useful and necessary in space-to-ground combat as it is in ground-ops. Johnson had to suppress ground battery fire to allow his troops to make planetfall with a minimum of casualties so that he could take on the crack troops he trained and cultivated. This wasn't just another bug hunt. :P

[DAG42]

He is loyal. From 2 conversations in "Fallen Angels" . The first with Nemiel, "Such is the fate of all traitors" after kicking some Sons of Horus tail, the other with Perturabo at the end when he still wants help securing the Emperors warmaster status. Remember Luther almost let an assanination attempt go on. Those sent back to the rock, I think in the Lion's eye's were already traitors to some degree.

[Octavulg]

Actually, while the bombardment did devastate the world it was Chaos that struck the final blow and blew it to pieces when they opened up the big warp rift in time and space and flung the Fallen through it. As for the Tale of Two-Heads Talking, keep in mind that the Deathwing didn't have to deal with planetary defenses, nor did they need to secure air superiority. Hell there was only one bloody city whereas Caliban was more populated and likely had more defenses and population centers.

 

As I recall, the surface of Caliban ended up molten after the DA bombardment. He cracked the planetary crust. Now, I admit that it is possible that some of the people of Caliban survived. It is, after all, an infinite universe. But I don't think it's very likely.

 

And you're right - the job of the Deathwing was easier. OTOH, they also lacked a lot of the assets available to the Dark Angels with Jonson. They could have annihilated everyone in order to secure victory with no losses to themselves - hell, they had a Thunderhawk - they probably could have just flattened the city from the air with no danger. They didn't.

 

Attacking a primitive pseudo-industrial world and a marine fortress world are two very different tasks. They cannot be easily compared to each other and one can not easily say that Johnson is evil for acting in the way he did. Were he to attempt an orbital drop without counter-battery fire using orbital assets then nothing would reach the ground. Suppression fire is just as useful and necessary in space-to-ground combat as it is in ground-ops. Johnson had to suppress ground battery fire to allow his troops to make planetfall with a minimum of casualties so that he could take on the crack troops he trained and cultivated. This wasn't just another bug hunt.

 

No, it wasn't. But considering the extent of the damage of the bombardment, I don't really think that he did the minimum necessary to secure his landing.

 

Furthermore, I'm not clear on how him annihilating the civilian population to enable him to engage the traitors is particularly impressive. It would seem more politic to say...wait for reinforcements. Rather than wiping out the population of your home world for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Lord_Hail]

All thee above in my opion, he was not a people person and could not read deeper motives in them. But he was a brillinat tatical mind, he could have sent half of the company back to "gaurd" the home front and keep everything under control. don't forget that lord cypher, was loyal only to jonson. and it only happened after he saw the true horror of what the warp could do, so he sent half back to gaurd and in stead they where "corrpted" by what they where sent to gaurd the world from... my opinion take it as a grain of sand

[Brother-Librarian Hesperos]

Jonson was rash, vindictive and wrathful. He was very challenged when it came to people. He was cold and calculating. However, he was a loyalist and loved his father greatly. He was most assuredly a loyal son, as was stated above. "Such is the fate of traitors." In my honest opinion he was almost too loyal. He grew to hate traitors so much, after what Horus had done to his galaxy imagine his horror and rage when he discovered his best (or at least former best) friend and supporter wanted to secede from the imperium. Or possibly turned to chaos, we still do not know the entire story. That is how i see him, slow to lose his cool, but once it is gone even Russ might have taken caution. That is probably an exaggeration but you get my point. He was rash and headstrong hence destroyin his home planet, or at least taking it close but who could blame him, his own legion betrayed him. My 2 cents.

[Brother-Librarian Hesperos]

What was the name of the book with the tale of Two Heads Talking? i forget and would like to read it again.

[Mystic Lemur]

I thought it was just called Deathwing. It was originally printed in one of the Space Hulk expansions. You can find that OOP version of it on games-workshop, I'm sure.

[brennus]

The Lion? Evil? Well, yes... but so were all of the loyal Primarchs, if you scrutinize their actions under 21st century ethics. Consider the actions of all of the Primarchs during the Great Crusade. If a world was rebellious or non-compliant, it was bombed back into the stone age with massive loss of life. Sentient alien species which may or may not have been hostile to humanity were enslaved or exterminated. From our point of view today, these acts are abhorrent to us.

 

All we have as a moral compass in Warhammer 40K is loyalty to the Emperor. The actions of the Lion at Caliban are no worse than any Inquisitor who orders an Exterminatus on a planet which is infested and/or corrupted beyond redemption.

[BoonKin]

All thee above in my opion, he was not a people person and could not read deeper motives in them. But he was a brillinat tatical mind, he could have sent half of the company back to "gaurd" the home front and keep everything under control. don't forget that lord cypher, was loyal only to jonson. and it only happened after he saw the true horror of what the warp could do, so he sent half back to gaurd and in stead they where "corrpted" by what they where sent to gaurd the world from... my opinion take it as a grain of sand

 

Sorry to hijack, but I agree with this statement.

 

In relation to the Lion witnessing the powers of the warp in DoA, I reckon that one of the reason why Jonson sent the Librarians (Israfael and Zaharael) is to counter the inherent darkness within Caliban itself. After all, wasn't it stated that the Lion read the lore of the defeated Wolf of Lupus (that Luther read to discover the daemon). As such, I don't really think its a banishment, since the warriors sent back took part in the same expedition with him, thus would be 'experienced' in dealing with warp-based threats.

 

And I believe Jonson loves Caliban as it is his home, and thus is doing all he can to protect it :unsure:

[Augustus]

Like some others have mentioned, we do not know all of the story. Perhaps the mythos behind the attack has grown? *spoiler* Perhaps that the reason the planet was so heavily bombarded was, among many other things, to destroy what was lurking in the Northlands?