Bright Lords - Radical Space Marines

[Brother Daeger Helsir]

They say the third time is the charm...

The Bright lords have gone through several incarnations, each becoming less inane as time progressed and I began utilizing a handful more brain cells with each attempt. At first they were a nameless chapter marines who served the "good" aspects of the Chaos gods. Then they were an unbelievably eclectic group of renegade marines known as the "Knightwing."

Then, realizing how ludicrous and unworkable both of these concepts ended up being, I decided to retcon and reform them into a loyalist chapter teetering on the brink of discovery and excommunication, riddled with many dangerously heretical, if well concealed, practices. At first I was going to name them the Heralds of Light, but then I discovered Codex Grey's excellently written chapter which had already claimed that name. So, I struck upon Bright Lords instead. Now, I am here, hoping to turn the Bright Lords into a legitimate and fleshed-out chapter, with the expert help of the BnC's users of course. :lol:

So, without further ado:

If I'm to be honest, The Bright Lords, to date, are more of a sketchy set of concepts than a fleshed out chapter. Here is what I have on them:

The overall thrust of this chapter is that just as Radical Inquisitors have departed from Imperial orthodoxy to pursue dangerously openminded methods of advancing the Emperor's cause and fighting his foes, so too have the Bright Lords become Radical Space Marines, dangerously open to new ideas and dabbling their hands in all manner of heresy in the name the Emperor and Humanity. From consorting with Xenos to tech-heresy to harboring refugees from Imperial justice, little save Chaos itself is considered an unjustified method by these Marines.

Brief History:

-The Chapter began as a relatively orthodox, Codex-adherent Founding from (Undecided) geneseed.

-However, over time they gradually became more and more radicalized, the beginning of this change coinciding roughly with the appearance of a reclusive figure named Leon Victoriege, or "Leon the Immortal," in the Chapter's records.

-This Leon Victoriege is believed to be the insidious architect of the Chapter's fall from Imperial orthodoxy. After he arrived, the Bright Lords began finding artifacts and knowledge from before the Heresy, unearthing the original creed of the Imperial Truth- or at least, a version of it. These discoveries began to distance them from the institution of the Imperium, a crack which was further wedged open over time.

-These differences are exploited to drive a wedge of distrust between the Chapter and the Adeptus Mechanicus. Holding the Adepts of Mars in utmost suspicion, the chapter discontinues the use and tradition of Techmarines, replacing them with a corps of battle-brothers given free rein to exercise their mechanical talent and inquisitive nature.

-After fighting a bloody campaign against an Ork Waagh, at Victoriege's urging the Bright Lords usher in the end of the Orkish threat when they single out the influential Ork Warboss "Dr." Jagenduffer and his blood axes, and entice him to turn against his fellow Orks. Jagenduffer's Blood Axes have fought both against and alongside the Bright Lords several times since.

-After sustaining heavy casualties fighting the Tyranids on a world used as a haven by a large number of Renegade Marines, in light of a tightening Imperial cordon the Bright Lords are prevailed upon (presumably by Victoriege) to quickly recoup their losses and offer the renegades a means of escape masquerading as Bright Lords, in exchange for loyalty to the Chapter. With no other choice before them but death, the renegades agree. Precedent is set for the Bright Lords to begin taking in renegade marines from other chapters.

-At some point the Chapter began to liaise with Eldar from craftworld Alaitoc. It is likely that the Eldar became involved at the prospect of gaining a powerful and useful pawn in the form of an entire Space Marine chapter they could use to their own ends. The Eldar deign to fight alongside the Bright Lords from time, particularly against Chaos, to continue the masquerade, as one of the biggest strings with which the Eldar puppet the Bright Lords is the chapter's errant belief that the Eldar value them as true allies.

Facts and miscellany:

-Conflicting records indicate that the shadowy Victoriege must be hundreds, possibly even thousands, of years old, but he is currently thought dead by Imperial forces, as he was brought low in a mighty battle. In fact he is not yet truly dead, as he was secretly interred within an ancient Dreadnought sarcophagus, and his favored protege, a marine named Daeger Helsir, currently leads the chapter in his stead.

-The Chapter is now believed to contain somewhere between fifty to eighty former Renegades, some of whom have been allowed to work themselves up to positions of alarming authority and trust within the Chapter.

-Chapter symbol: A lit white candle on a black background, sometimes flanked by wings. This symbolizes the Bright lords' belief that the galaxy is full of darkness, but illuminated nonetheless by the defiant, inextinguishable flame of the Emperor and his servants.

-The chapter has two ostensible goals beyond the norm for Astartes; they track down and hoard archaeotech, knowledge, and ancient Imperial lore, and see it as their duty to be the Emperor's light in the darkness, carrying His Truth to the most benighted places of the galaxy.

-The Chapter is fleet-based, working from a massively overbuilt space station that has incorporated and consumed several additional space vessels in its construction. This space station acts as their fortress-monastery.

-The Chapter eschews the adepts of Mars for technology; instead their chapter is host to a sub-cult devoted to the study and utilization of, as well as experimentation with, the Chapter's collected archaeotech relics.

-The Chapter is willing to secretly offer amnesty to renegade space marines who wish to rejoin the Imperium, placing them through a rigorous trial by fire to atone for their lapse in loyalty and prove their renewed worth before consiering passing them off as members of the Chapter.

-The Chapter is willing to work beside aliens with an alarming lack of hesitancy, and have an extensive secret history of cooperative efforts with a group of Alaitoc eldar and even Blood Axes.

-Naturally, the chapter is on rather poor terms with the Inquisition, taking pains to avoid them and remain as much as possible beyond their scrutiny.

-I am debating whether or not to include any Radical Inquisitors in their background material, possibly as allies who help shield their unorthodoxy from the rest of the Imperium.

Chapter Color Scheme:

---

Now, I know this might seem like an unbelievably exceptional lot of heresy for one still-loyalist chapter to take, but one of the elements crucial to this chapter is that I want them to be set up literally upon the brink- they have reached the peak of their heretical decadence, it has grown to the extent where it cannot possibly remain hidden for much longer, and a fall is likely both inevitable and swiftly approaching. But for now, they remain perched precariously on that brink, having not yet been pushed over. At some point they very well probably will become renegades in truth, but that point is not quite now.

The idea of a slippery slope is also key here. The Chapter didn't suddenly arrive at all of these heresies overnight once Victoriege showed up; instead, they were gradually convinced to take small, reasonable steps from orthodoxy, which were then built upon and built upon until they snowballed into a chapter riven to the core by a dangerous open-mindedness and contempt for Imperial orthodoxy that could be influenced to make all of the heretical decisions that it has.

Given this, what are your opinions and suggestions? Feel free to dislike my concepts vehemently and tell me why; just please do so respectfully. I am looking for constructive criticism after all; if I wanted abuse I'd go and post my chapter concept on /tg./

[Brother Daeger Helsir]

This post is a placeholder.

[Shinzaren]

Definitely looks interesting, but it does raise some questions:

1. With a complete distrust of Mars, and the ending of Techmarines and their ilk, who maintains their starships, tanks, and armor? Granted inquisitive or inventive marines could probably make do repairing arms/armor, but larger more complex systems like those of a ship would need considerably higher skills. Especially considering that Astartes equipment is in need of repair more frequently than most, as they are engaged in near constant battle.

 

2. How do they shield their Xenos tech from Inquisitors? Especially the giant space-hulk type station that is their fortress monastery. That seems to be a giant red flag, if they are cobbling together their own tech, outside the edicts of Mars.

 

3. Every Chapter is required to submit Gene-seed to the AM for testing. If they have cut all ties, how come the AM didn't go to the HLoT and say, "Hey, btw... The Bright Lords told us to F*** Off, and stopped submitting gene-seed. Maybe you should check that out...?"

 

4. How did they make contact with the Eldar? Much like the Imperium hates everyone, the Eldar have learned to fear the Mon'Keigh as aggressors, learning to shoot first and talk later. It is a feasible idea, but it needs to be explained a bit more. Did a Farseer look into the future and see the possibilities of working with the Bright Lords? Did they fight together alongside a common enemy?

 

5. Orks are No Ones Allies. They are so warlike and vicious, that as soon any hint of a common enemy was gone, they would turn on the Bright Lords just to fight them. Unlike the Eldar, they have no rational thought about what's in their best interest. They only want enemies to fight, the stronger the better.

 

6.) Not even the most Radical of Radicals would offer Chaos marines, most of whom are thousands of years old and filled with a burning hatred towards every single facet of the Imperium, a second chance. Mostly because they wouldn't take it anyway. At best they would join to later turn on their Allies, but most wouldn't even do that. Most would choose to die for Gods, knowing that all war leads to Chaos eventually. This is another aspect that needs an EXTREMELY good rationalization and reasoning. Besides, even if Victoreige wanted to accept Traitors into his Legion, why would ANY of his brother marines go along with it? That is true Heresy, and I doubt that the Captains, Veterans, and ESPECIALLY the Chaplains would let that go. Again, with an extremely good explanation and rationale it's possible I guess, but it seems like a very tough sell.

 

 

I like the ideas you have, and the thought of a Chapter that is dangerously close to full Heresy is incredibly cool. It just needs some tweaks, and some more explanation about how they've gotten this far. Working alongside traitors and Xenos is definitely cool, but it has to be well written and explained for anyone to really believe that it could work. I look forward to seeing more on these guys, and hopefully you can work everything out. Again, cool concept. Goodluck

[Brother Daeger Helsir]

Definitely looks interesting, but it does raise some questions:

1. With a complete distrust of Mars, and the ending of Techmarines and their ilk, who maintains their starships, tanks, and armor? Granted inquisitive or inventive marines could probably make do repairing arms/armor, but larger more complex systems like those of a ship would need considerably higher skills. Especially considering that Astartes equipment is in need of repair more frequently than most, as they are engaged in near constant battle.

 

I'd had an idea that, working somewhat beyond the system as they do, they would make a point of trying to seize resources wherever they can rather than having to rely on Imperial (and therefore usually Mechanicus) foundries. "Requisitioning" old marks of gear that they come across. Capturing, then purging and resanctifying, STC-derived equipment from their enemies and using them as replacements or sources of spare parts. Because of this many Marines' armors would have an unusually baroque and cobbled together appearance, up to and including embellishments more normally associated with Chaos Marines. For instance, a marine whose helmet was destroyed in battle with an Aspiring Champion, might take the horned helm of the Champion as a trophy and, after the proper rituals to cleanse it of all possible taint and rebless it to the service of the Emperor, wear said helm himself. This is especially prevalent within the ranks of the chapter's Terminators, as they have precious few suits of tactical dreadnought armor and are often forced to use any and all available materials, including parts from fallen Chaos terminators, for replacement components and repairs.

 

Beyond this, the subcult of tinkerer-marines were meant to have achieved some significant proficiency with STC-derived technologies in spite of their broken ties with the Mechanicus. Perhaps the chapter's archives of normally rare, heretical or proscribed lore would account for this, granting the kind of knowledge required to keep things running?

 

Also, as they are collectors of archaeotech, might it be possible possible some of their artifacts and equipment contain truly ancient components that allow for a higher standard of gear than would ordinarily be possible for a faction without Techpriests?

 

Finally, I've been toying with the idea that the chapter is somewhat understrength, with less than a full ten Companies and relatively few vehicles to their name. This would understandably make the load on any would-be Techmarine stand ins somewhat lighter.

 

2. How do they shield their Xenos tech from Inquisitors? Especially the giant space-hulk type station that is their fortress monastery. That seems to be a giant red flag, if they are cobbling together their own tech, outside the edicts of Mars.

 

The Bright Lords don't actually use xenos technology for the most part, and when they do, they pass it off as archaeotech relics. Their fortress-monastery was intended to be a wholly Imperial construction however- basically, an Imperial star fortress that was huge to begin with and has since had superstructures and systems of various scavenged Imperial ships (Perhaps ripped mostly-intact from true space hulks) bolted on to make it even bigger and deadlier.

 

3. Every Chapter is required to submit Gene-seed to the AM for testing. If they have cut all ties, how come the AM didn't go to the HLoT and say, "Hey, btw... The Bright Lords told us to F*** Off, and stopped submitting gene-seed. Maybe you should check that out...?"

This is an extremely good point. I would suppose that the Bright Lords still send gene-seed tithes, but otherwise eschew all contact with the Mechanicus. So instead of the Mechanicus going to the High Lords, it'd be more them grumbling about those backwards damned shut-in Bright Lords, then going back to their afternoon prayers instead.

 

4. How did they make contact with the Eldar? Much like the Imperium hates everyone, the Eldar have learned to fear the Mon'Keigh as aggressors, learning to shoot first and talk later. It is a feasible idea, but it needs to be explained a bit more. Did a Farseer look into the future and see the possibilities of working with the Bright Lords? Did they fight together alongside a common enemy?

I hadn't entirely figured this one out yet, but I'm thinking that it would have something to do with a combination of Leon Victoreige's shenanigans and fighting alongside common enemies. Perhaps drop some hints that Victoriege had something to do with the Eldar before he showed up in the Chapter's history and is not in fact a true Bright Lord.

 

Also there is the simple fact that the Eldar are manipulative, more than happy to sacrifice a lesser race to spare the Eldar some effort, and have had to deal with the Astartes in war often enough to know how dangerous they are and how useful they would be as a tool.

 

 

5. Orks are No Ones Allies. They are so warlike and vicious, that as soon any hint of a common enemy was gone, they would turn on the Bright Lords just to fight them. Unlike the Eldar, they have no rational thought about what's in their best interest. They only want enemies to fight, the stronger the better.

 

The Blood Axes are odd for Orks, emulating human armies in many ways, and have been recorded to fight at the behest of Imperial commanders regularly in canon. However you're right that orks are orks, of course, they inevitably turn on their Imperial "allies" at some point or another, and the Bright Lords have fought against Jagenduffer at least twice as often as they've fought beside him. Although Warboss Jagenduffer himself, (the leader of a friend's Ork army) is an anomaly since instead of gettin' bigga den annywun, he got more kunnin,' but that's a different story for a non-power-armored forum.

 

6.) Not even the most Radical of Radicals would offer Chaos marines, most of whom are thousands of years old and filled with a burning hatred towards every single facet of the Imperium, a second chance. Mostly because they wouldn't take it anyway. At best they would join to later turn on their Allies, but most wouldn't even do that. Most would choose to die for Gods, knowing that all war leads to Chaos eventually. This is another aspect that needs an EXTREMELY good rationalization and reasoning. Besides, even if Victoreige wanted to accept Traitors into his Legion, why would ANY of his brother marines go along with it? That is true Heresy, and I doubt that the Captains, Veterans, and ESPECIALLY the Chaplains would let that go. Again, with an extremely good explanation and rationale it's possible I guess, but it seems like a very tough sell.

My apologies, I should have made this clearer to begin with. You're right, which is why the Bright Lords don't offer amnesty to chaos marines. They offer it to Renegades, which are a slightly different kettle of fish. Some, like the original Red Corsairs, have indeed fallen to chaos, and these would be executed. Others, however, have left their chapters for their own reasons, been exiled in disgrace for some terrible dishonor, or come so close to the brink (without tipping over it) that the rest of the Imperium will not accept them anymore. Examples are the Soul Drinkers, the collection of renegade Space Marines that Captain Ventris recruits in Dead Sky, Black Sun, or the disgraced marines from other chapters who have since joined the Red Corsairs due to a lack of other options. These Marines are branded by their deeds and cast out, but not irredeemable, and it is they that the Bright Lords will take in. Even then however, the former renegades have quite an arduous process to go through in order to prove themselves, and if they fail or show signs of turning again, the nearest Bright Lord puts a bolt round through the back of their head.

 

The initial reason to accept renegade marines was that, after a devastating campaign, it was a way to quickly recoup their losses by absconding with the renegades they'd found there. Later on, additional justifications were dreamt up and spread around; such as the fact that even in disgrace, renegade marines are still mighty warriors, and therefore it serves the Emperor's purpose better than simply killing them on the spot if they can be redeemed and made useful to Him once more. You can also bet that Victoriee has been playing on the Bright Lord's sympathies in these matters by situationally casting appropriate groups of renegades as no more unorthodox than the Bright Lords themselves, their only real "crime" being discovery by the Imperium, having nowhere else to turn.

 

 

I like the ideas you have, and the thought of a Chapter that is dangerously close to full Heresy is incredibly cool. It just needs some tweaks, and some more explanation about how they've gotten this far. Working alongside traitors and Xenos is definitely cool, but it has to be well written and explained for anyone to really believe that it could work. I look forward to seeing more on these guys, and hopefully you can work everything out. Again, cool concept. Goodluck

 

Thanks so much for the praise, and I greatly appreciate your input. I'm glad people like this chapter, I was afraid it'd have to be an uphill battle the whole way because of their unorthodoxy.

[Ferrata]

I like your idea in theory, but there are a few things here and there that really jilt any decent shot at a good chapter. For one, the character of Leon Victoreige. I don't like big characters that come in and change everything about a chapter, it feels cheap and sleezy. Unless this guy forms a central core of the chapter and is not the easiest way to explain the change of the chapter, i.e. it is heavily hinted that he might be an Alpha Legion marine (think the Departed), then I would remove him. It is okay to use him as a catalyst at the start, but he will die in 400 years so he wont oversee the whole change, neither would any marine who can remember him.

 

Second, I'm not sure about the level of Xenos work. I can understant the reasoning, and some alliances, but it needs to be carefully and very "We will shoot you after the battle" idea. You've got some good thoughts, just don't over crowd them with other ideas.

[Terminatorinhell]

I frankly think an alliance with Tau would be better since they seem to be less sinister and arrogant than Eldar.

[RagingGriffon]

I liked the idea, but I would suggest a few things:

 

- pick a couple of races... not all of them. I like the Ork idea the best.

- don't force it.

- I am not a fan of the "on the precipice of corruption part." Go one way the other. If you stay Loyal, then pick a couple of races like the Ork Freebooterz and Tau. If you go Traitor, pick Eldar and Chaos.

- The green soft armor doesn't sit well with me.

 

I look forward to reading more.

[Ferrata]

To add to the colour scheme discussion, they ain't really that bright are they?

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Naturally, the chapter is on rather poor terms with the Inquisition, taking pains to avoid them and remain as much as possible beyond their scrutiny.

-I am debating whether or not to include any Radical Inquisitors in their background material, possibly as allies who help shield their unorthodoxy from the rest of the Imperium.

 

The first bit doesn't work, there is no "Inquisition" for practical purposes - it's just an umbrella terms for a large group of diverse people calling themselves Inquisitors. It's for that reason that the second bit is possible.

 

I frankly think an alliance with Tau would be better since they seem to be less sinister and arrogant than Eldar.

 

Far from it. The Eldar are just honest about it.

 

The Bright Lords don't actually use xenos technology for the most part, and when they do, they pass it off as archaeotech relics.

 

That still raises the question of why they aren't made to hand those relics over. Despite the Astartes' record on handing over technology to the AdMech, it is their property via the Emperor's personal edict. Not complying is going to require them to justify it to themselves since it implies that they know better than the Emperor. They can't really use the stuff openly either - sooner or later some Imperial official is going to call them out on it, and you can only bluff by saying the AdMech granted it to you for so long. The bureacracy is slow, but it does work in the end. You'll need to conceal all this xenotech from prying eyes.

[Brother Daeger Helsir]

I like your idea in theory, but there are a few things here and there that really jilt any decent shot at a good chapter. For one, the character of Leon Victoreige. I don't like big characters that come in and change everything about a chapter, it feels cheap and sleezy. Unless this guy forms a central core of the chapter and is not the easiest way to explain the change of the chapter, i.e. it is heavily hinted that he might be an Alpha Legion marine (think the Departed), then I would remove him. It is okay to use him as a catalyst at the start, but he will die in 400 years so he wont oversee the whole change, neither would any marine who can remember him.

Victoreige's exact age and level of influence are hardly set in stone, so this can be played with. He is however supposed to be very instrumental in making the Chapter what it is today; my intent was to leave the exact nature and length of his involvement sinisterly unclear, dropping lots of hints that he isn't a true Bright Lord and not at all what the Chapter thinks he is along the way. And he is supposed to be very long lived, longer than anyone else currently alive in the chapter; how else do you think he got the moniker "The Immortal?"

This said though, I would greatly appreciate some suggestions for how much of a role Victoriege should have played in the matter, and how long he should be a public, active member of the Bright Lords.

However, he is supposed to have effectively been removed from any real hand in the Chapter's fate for a significant time as of "present day" - as a Dreadnought, he is no longer particularly lucid or coherent most of the time, and so whatever plans he still had in motion have been understandably derailed.

Second, I'm not sure about the level of Xenos work. I can understant the reasoning, and some alliances, but it needs to be carefully and very "We will shoot you after the battle" idea. You've got some good thoughts, just don't over crowd them with other ideas.

The Alaitoc eldar with which the Bright Lords occasionally interact nigh-universally regard the Chapter as little more than a recurringly useful pawn; the one or two that don't view them more like a favored but poorly-tamed pet, to be treated well but put down without hesitation if it turns on its owners. Jagenduffer just makes a habit of bumping into them now and again, 'kos hey, dem black-gold beakies always make fer a good scrap one way or annuvva. Apart from this, the Bright Lords have no recurring ties to xenos factions save as enemies. The chapter's xenos-abettance would lean more to situations like, "Tyranids/Chaos are attacking this planet, we'll let the Tau do their thing unbothered while we're here."

I liked the idea, but I would suggest a few things:

- pick a couple of races... not all of them. I like the Ork idea the best.

- don't force it.

- I am not a fan of the "on the precipice of corruption part." Go one way the other. If you stay Loyal, then pick a couple of races like the Ork Freebooterz and Tau. If you go Traitor, pick Eldar and Chaos.

- The green soft armor doesn't sit well with me.

I look forward to reading more.

First, thank you for your interest and your pointers.

The Bright Lords only dabble with Eldar, Orks, and Renegades on more than an incidental level. That's it though, they certainly don't go around buddying up with every alien they meet.

I don't see the bright lords ever joining Chaos. If you're going to fall from the Imperium, there are certainly other directions to fall than towards the Eye of Terror, and Chaos is one of the few things the Chapter doesn't have a tolerance for; it is seen as an order of magnitude greater than any xenos they might face. Even if they do become excommunicate, they will continue to see themselves as doing the Emperor's work.

The actual soft armor is Goblin Green, a much less obtrusive color than the unfortunate approximation I did with the SM painter. It barely perturbs the black-and gold in real life.

To add to the colour scheme discussion, they ain't really that bright are they?

No, they ain't. :P There are reasons for that, ranging from delicious irony to symbolism of 'light (gold trim) amongst the darkness" to the fact that I like black, gold and dark green a lot.

The first bit doesn't work, there is no "Inquisition" for practical purposes - it's just an umbrella terms for a large group of diverse people calling themselves Inquisitors. It's for that reason that the second bit is possible.

Well you are right of course; I was merely referring to the large assortment of conservative, Puritan, and other assorted "stereotypical" inquisitors who would be inclined to frown on the Bright Lord's practices, to say the least. As much as the Obfuscating Radical Inquisitor option is tempting though, I wonder if I really want to utilize it, considering that Deus Ex Radical Inquisitor is to my understanding somewhat frowned upon?

That still raises the question of why they aren't made to hand those relics over. Despite the Astartes' record on handing over technology to the AdMech, it is their property via the Emperor's personal edict. Not complying is going to require them to justify it to themselves since it implies that they know better than the Emperor. They can't really use the stuff openly either - sooner or later some Imperial official is going to call them out on it, and you can only bluff by saying the AdMech granted it to you for so long. The bureacracy is slow, but it does work in the end. You'll need to conceal all this xenotech from prying eyes.

Well, in all honesty I only said that they used Xenotech at all because I wanted an opportunity to convert Assault Marines with glorious Swooping Hawk wings instead of bulky jetpacks :D In a pinch, I suppose I could retcon that such devices genuinely are archeotech, rather than xenotech being masqueraded as; however that feels somewhat strained in my opinion, what do you think? Although, considering the Sentinel and War Walker, humanity does have a precedent for mimicking Eldar technologies.

The Bright Lords' main uses of archaeotech on the battlefield are usually either non-obvious applications such as internal systems and parts, modifications that aren't realistically differentiable from any number of mastercrafted weapons or suits of artificer armor, or stuff like fancy guns used by the Silverhand (techmarine-stand-in organization) Marines (to represent Sternguard, which I believe are supposed to be using archaeotech bolters anyways.)

Also... Although I suppose one might look at this as a cop out, why can't it be that the Bright Lords aren't called to task for not sharing their toys for the same reason no one calls the Space Wolves or Black Templars to task for having too many marines, or the Blood Angels for their whole vampire schtick, or any number of canon space marine chapters who have dubious practices or a problem with hoarding yet nonetheless evade consequences/keep consequences to a manageable level? Heck, to my knowledge the Dark Angels are actively uncooperative towards just about every Imperial institution from the High Lords on down, and they rove about as they please, occasional inevitably-resolved quarrels notwithstanding.

Another possibility; avoid and evade, and have the Bright Lords try to fly under the radar as much as possible. If the Mechanicus can never get a hold of you, they can't badger you about not sharing the wealth, and the saying "out of sight, out of mind" is a saying for a reason.

Third possibility: The Bright Lords hunt for archaeotech and forbidden lore and have found some nifty gadgets, but not something truly BIG yet. If/when they do, this could be the possible catalyst for major Mechanicus intervention and the beginning of their official fall from grace.

---

Additional new Chapter material:

Battle Cry: The Chapter has several, most in High Gothic and related to themes of light and darkness. However by far the pithiest and most common is the simple but thunderously-delivered phrase, "Fiat Lux!" - "Let there be light!"

The Silverhands: In the absence of Techmarines, the Cult of the Silverhand has taken its place. The Silverhands, numbered at about sixty marines, are vital to the chapter, as they alone have the dedication and knowhow to unravel the Chapter's hard-won lore and maintain both its wargear and its precious stocks of archaeotech gadgets. Silverhands have become very tight-knight, but also somewhat reclusive over the years, constantly tinkering with their wargear and often keeping most of the archaeotech for themselves. Though full members of the Bright Lords, these marines answer only to their leader, who himself answers to the Chapter Master and the chapter's top officials, and is afforded rank roughly equivalent to a Captain. Silverhands repaint their armor to a burnished silver with blue trim, leaving precious little of the gold-trimmed black and dark green that are standard Bright Lords heraldry. They are regarded as valued comrades by their battle-brothers but difficult to get along with and extremely eccentric, to risk angering the machine-spirits so. In truth, various of the Chapter's higher officers are worrying that the Silverhands are becoming too independent, and too much of a chapter-within-a-chapter, but the Bright Lords' need of their Silverhands is extreme, and so the delicate matter has not yet been brought to a head.

Silverhand Marine:

The Librarium: The Bright Lords maintain a Librarium, whose duties involve not only recording the Chapter's history but dealing with, archiving, and maintaining the precious knowledge and ancient data acquired on Chapter missions. Though it maintains a Librarium, the Chapter has precious few Librarians with actual psychic talent. This could quite possibly be due to the meddlesome intervention of the Eldar, who afford precious little trust to any non-eldar, much less mon'keigh with dangerously uncontrolled and potent, if crude, powers of the mind.

[Brother Daeger Helsir]

Some Thoughts About the Chapter's Geneseed:

 

Geneseed has been one of the most difficult facets of the Chapter for me to figure out so far. The Bright Lords' geneseed should not have any significant deviance, as they already have enough "spice" on their plate without the addition of geneseed flaws (which tend to be pretty central to a chapter's character). That considered, I looked to the two geneseed stocks most commonly used; Ultramarines and Imperial Fists. Now, UM geneseed is amongst the purest, with all implanted organs functional, but I personally am not much of a fan of Roboute Guilliman, and find it amiss for this chapter of freethinkers to venerate as their Primarch the guy who literally wrote the book on blind loyalty and hidebound orthodoxy.

 

Imperial Fists on the other hand, I could work with; it makes things nice and straightforward. IF's are stable and the second most common geneseed stock for creating new Chapters, and I like Rogal Dorn as a primarch. However, the Fist's geneseed lacks an operational Betcher's gland, admittedly a relatively minor detail, but I'm oddly partial to acid-spitting. :lol:

 

There is an option besides the Fists, but the problem is that it adds further complexity to an already complicated Chapter. Dark Angels geneseed is amongst the purest, and to make it more fitting, the Dark Angels are known for their reclusive unfriendliness and mistrust towards the Mechanicus and the Inquisition. The problem is however, that the fluff I've read seems to indicate that essentially all of the Dark Angel successor chapters are essentially Dark Angels clones, organized with their own Deathwings and Ravenwings, hunting the Fallen, and hobnobbing at the Rock with the rest of the Unforgiven to catch up on the latest. All of these things my chapter does not and should not do, as with all of their heresies and departures from Codex adherence, layering on the Dark Angels template just adds too much. There might possibly be a way to overcome this- say, the High Lords commission a new chapter from DA stok for its purity, but entrust the founding of the chapter to marines from a different chapter entirely to try and avoid the worst of the Dark Angel's and their successor's reclusive, uncooperative habits. However, this too adds complexity, and I feel like I am already flirting dangerously with the KISS rule when it comes to this chapter.

 

So, valued members of the BnC, what do you think?

[Grand Master Tyrak]

As much as the Obfuscating Radical Inquisitor option is tempting though, I wonder if I really want to utilize it, considering that Deus Ex Radical Inquisitor is to my understanding somewhat frowned upon?

 

You don't actually have to include an Inquisitor for the philosophy, if that's what you mean. You just copy'n'paste the philosophy onto your Chapter with very little need for change, in the same way that the Relictors are just Xanthite Space Marines.

 

Although I suppose one might look at this as a cop out, why can't it be that the Bright Lords aren't called to task for not sharing their toys for the same reason no one calls the Space Wolves or Black Templars to task for having too many marines, or the Blood Angels for their whole vampire schtick, or any number of canon space marine chapters who have dubious practices or a problem with hoarding yet nonetheless evade consequences/keep consequences to a manageable level?

 

Two reasons:

 

1. Space Marines have the right to a formal trial, so no-one calls them out (apart from their brother Chapters) without proof. Running round using xenotech openly (as opposed to just possessing it) is going to provide all the proof required, and so if you want to escape punishment you'll have to either not get found out, and run away if/when you do. The Blood Angels, for example, get away with it despite suspicions because no-one's yet found any defects in the gene-seed or any other proof of vampiric tendencies. Proof beyond reasonable doubt is also going to get your brother Chapters fighting against you for besmirching the honour of the Astartes (ie. putting them under suspicion and threatening their independence) - you really won't have many allies at all if there is full proof.
   
2. You don't have anything like the political influence that the First Founding have. When deciding whether to let a Chapter off the decision is between a random Space Marine Chapter and the risk of another Horus Heresy. A Chapter is a valuable resource to the Imperium, but when put up against that kind of danger, it's by far the safest option to just eliminate the Chapter. It's just too great a risk to do otherwise. For the Chapters of Legend it's a bit different - their excommunication would have wider repercussions, they are more valuable to the Imperium than a random Chapter, and it's harder for other Chapters to distance themselves from a First Founding so you run the risk of successor Chapters throwing their lot in with the parent Chapter because they feel threatened.
   

 

avoid and evade, and have the Bright Lords try to fly under the radar as much as possible. If the Mechanicus can never get a hold of you, they can't badger you about not sharing the wealth, and the saying "out of sight, out of mind" is a saying for a reason.

 

That would work very well for when the time comes to leave the Imperium, but for a Chapter teetering on the edge of being excommunicated that kind of balancing act should be replicated with this behaviour. You can't be totally reclusive without raising suspicion, and even the Unforgiven send in their gene-seed tithes on time, so you need some contact with the Imperium. On the other hand, you can be reclusive enough to hide the xenotech stuff whenever an Inquisitor or representatives of another Chapter show up for a "diplomatic visit".

 

 

Third possibility: The Bright Lords hunt for archaeotech and forbidden lore and have found some nifty gadgets, but not something truly BIG yet. If/when they do, this could be the possible catalyst for major Mechanicus intervention and the beginning of their official fall from grace.

 

That works, although IMO it would work better in the backstory, before the Bright Lords come to their current position. The more they find, the more they have to hide and the more dangerous their position becomes. You could work in hints that the Bright Lords have found something big without explicitly saying that they have.

[Brother Daeger Helsir]

You don't actually have to include an Inquisitor for the philosophy, if that's what you mean. You just copy'n'paste the philosophy onto your Chapter with very little need for change, in the same way that the Relictors are just Xanthite Space Marines.

 

I meant more having a sympathetic Radical Inquisitor who helps to pull strings and keep the heat off of the Bright Lords, perhaps in exchange for favors. It could work, it might be convenient, but it's not a device I'm sure I want to be using.

 

Two reasons:

*snip*

Then it seems the Bright Lords are far better off utilizing archaeotech and archaeotech alone, and being secretive about doing so, not utilizing the full extent of their collection so that it might better pass unnoticed by the galaxy at large.

 

That would work very well for when the time comes to leave the Imperium, but for a Chapter teetering on the edge of being excommunicated that kind of balancing act should be replicated with this behaviour. You can't be totally reclusive without raising suspicion, and even the Unforgiven send in their gene-seed tithes on time, so you need some contact with the Imperium. On the other hand, you can be reclusive enough to hide the xenotech stuff whenever an Inquisitor or representatives of another Chapter show up for a "diplomatic visit".

That is what I had in mind, really. Send in the tithes, but otherwise be difficult to pin down, let the rest of the Imperium catch the answering machine as often as possible, and be sure to look squeaky clean if somebody does manage to get a hold of you.

 

 

That works, although IMO it would work better in the backstory, before the Bright Lords come to their current position. The more they find, the more they have to hide and the more dangerous their position becomes. You could work in hints that the Bright Lords have found something big without explicitly saying that they have.

 

This is good stuff. I'll also say that the Bright Lords, despite their collection, do not bring artifacts to battle unless they have a fairly thorough (for 40k anyways) understanding of their function and use. Therefore, they would end up only permitting themselves to use the most minor, simple, and most unobtrusive items from their archaeotech hoard. And if they did get their hands on something momentous, it would be indefinately squirreled away somewhere so that only Silverhands and Libriarians get to work with it and nobody outside the chapter knows it exists. This would limit the amount of archaeotech actually fielded and make it easier to cover things up.

[Shinzaren]

Some Thoughts About the Chapter's Geneseed:

 

Geneseed has been one of the most difficult facets of the Chapter for me to figure out so far. The Bright Lords' geneseed should not have any significant deviance, as they already have enough "spice" on their plate without the addition of geneseed flaws (which tend to be pretty central to a chapter's character). That considered, I looked to the two geneseed stocks most commonly used; Ultramarines and Imperial Fists. Now, UM geneseed is amongst the purest, with all implanted organs functional, but I personally am not much of a fan of Roboute Guilliman, and find it amiss for this chapter of freethinkers to venerate as their Primarch the guy who literally wrote the book on blind loyalty and hidebound orthodoxy.

 

While it's true that Gulliman wrote the book on loyalty, the sheer number of successor chapters means you could easily take the simplest route, and avoid complication. Instead of being a direct UM successor, have them be the successor of a successor, who's ties to UM and Gulliman are distant at best, and non-existent at worst. You have enough things on the menu, without lost records of gene-seed, and mutations, etc. UM fits your needs, just distance yourselves from the actual Codex waving UMs.

[Ace Debonair]

Well, in all honesty I only said that they used Xenotech at all because I wanted an opportunity to convert Assault Marines with glorious Swooping Hawk wings instead of bulky jetpacks In a pinch, I suppose I could retcon that such devices genuinely are archeotech, rather than xenotech being masqueraded as; however that feels somewhat strained in my opinion, what do you think? Although, considering the Sentinel and War Walker, humanity does have a precedent for mimicking Eldar technologies.

Just give them the wings, and if anyone asks, pretend you're testing a new make of jump pack for the AdMech. ;)

 

Coming up with story reasons for modeling choices isn't such a good idea. They always tend to read like "And now I can use [iNSERT THING HERE] here with my marines," if you know what I mean. It's a bit like people coming up with Death Company parallels because they want to use the Blood Angels codex for a non-BA-line chapter - it sticks out like a sore thumb. ^_^

 

 

I'm not really sure about the name of your chapter, simply because it's very close to the Night Lords, rascally traitors that they are.

 

And I'm pretty sure not all Ultramarine successors turned out loyal, let alone 'by the book' loyal.

Your chapter doesn't seem like a good fit for Dorn-lineage, at least at up to now (I appreciate this is early days yet), so I'd advise making use of Gulliman's gene-seed. Besides, if you don't like the guy, why not make a chapter that disgraces his name? :P

[Brother Daeger Helsir]

Well, I suppose I could, but somehow it just feels "wrong" for me to put Guilliman and the Bright Lords even so close together as using Ol' Stodgy's geneseed. Even if the Bright Lords themselves aren't close to them, from their perspective that means they have no primarch to look up to, and from my perspective, that pompous ass Guiliman is still technically their primarch anyways. This is why I was considering the Imperial Fists, as their geneseed is the second most commonly used in new chapters after the Ultramaines' and Dorn is cool with me. Furthermore although it does have mutations, these mutations are minor and so well documented that I don't need to go into any detail about them.

 

Out of the options (ultras, Fists or Dark Angels) which do you all favor most?

 

 

And as for not resembling your average Dorn successor... Well, they don't, I suppose, but they did at one point. My idea was that if I chose Dorn's geneseed, the group of veteran marines who helped found the chapter would have been drawn from the Imperial Fists, but in their early years they would have worked closely with the Black Templars, placing the Chapter ideologically and organizationally somewhere on something of a comfortable middle ground in between the two.

 

With regards to the winged Assault Marines, it wasn't so much that I wanted "SWOOPING HAWK MARINES, YEAH!" as that I like the aesthetics of Marines with artificial wings instead of big bulky turbine-backpacks. It's just that the Swooping Hawk mini has the best-looking wings out of GW's range in my opinion, being of the right size and vaguely technological looking. I imagine now that I'll file off most of the spirit stones to make the bitz less blatantly Eldar and call them archaeotech jump packs in the fluff.

 

As for the Chapter name... Well, I'm kind of partial to it, even if it does sound a lot like Night Lords. If you dislike it, what would you suggest as an alternative?

[Ace Debonair]

And as for not resembling your average Dorn successor... Well, they don't, I suppose, but they did at one point. My idea was that if I chose Dorn's geneseed, the group of veteran marines who helped found the chapter would have been drawn from the Imperial Fists, but in their early years they would have worked closely with the Black Templars, placing the Chapter ideologically and organizationally somewhere on something of a comfortable middle ground in between the two.

It's harder to imagine anyone influenced bythe Black Templars fighting alongside aliens under any circumstances than it is to imagine one of Guilliman's lot, or even normal Dornish successors, so I'm not sure that'd be an easy road to travel. Like you said, there's enough risky stuff in this idea. :lol:

 

With regards to the winged Assault Marines, it wasn't so much that I wanted "SWOOPING HAWK MARINES, YEAH!" as that I like the aesthetics of Marines with artificial wings instead of big bulky turbine-backpacks. It's just that the Swooping Hawk mini has the best-looking wings out of GW's range in my opinion, being of the right size and vaguely technological looking. I imagine now that I'll file off most of the spirit stones to make the bitz less blatantly Eldar and call them archaeotech jump packs in the fluff.

Ah, I must have worded that poorly. What I meant to say was; "Why include them in the story at all?" Different-looking jump packs aren't really a key feature of the chapter, are they?

 

As for the Chapter name... Well, I'm kind of partial to it, even if it does sound a lot like Night Lords. If you dislike it, what would you suggest as an alternative?

Ah, there you've got me. :confused:

How about... Knights Radiant, or something to that effect?

Or possibly just Radiant Lords, in fact.

[Brother Daeger Helsir]

It's harder to imagine anyone influenced bythe Black Templars fighting alongside aliens under any circumstances than it is to imagine one of Guilliman's lot, or even normal Dornish successors, so I'm not sure that'd be an easy road to travel. Like you said, there's enough risky stuff in this idea. :angry:

Yeah, you're right. All of these alternate ideas are going to require far too much convolution, so I suppose I might as well use Ultramarines geneseed and simply pick a suitable UM successor chapter to form their training cadre. Any suggestions there, in light of what the Bright Lords develop into?

 

Ah, I must have worded that poorly. What I meant to say was; "Why include them in the story at all?" Different-looking jump packs aren't really a key feature of the chapter, are they?

 

Oh. No, I never planned for their jump-packs to have any relevance to the IA at all. However one of the early responses was asking me about how they concealed their "xenotech." To my understanding this was a mistake, as the Chapter does not use xenotech - except that I remembered my plans for winged assault marines, which I thought might have had to be rendered as Xenotech to have any sort of in-universe justification, but am now simply waving away as some of their Archaeotech relics. That was what brought up the subject of Swooping Hawk wings and assault marines; otherwise however they have no significance to an IA about the Bright Lords.

 

Ah, there you've got me. :unsure:

How about... Knights Radiant, or something to that effect?

Or possibly just Radiant Lords, in fact.

 

Well, either could work, but to be honest they sound a little florid to me, and the Bright Lords aren't intended to be an excessively knightly chapter. Bright Lords is quick and snappy, something pithy I can use in a conversation or text without feeling like I'm stumbling over myself. It sounds "right" to me. Much longer than that, and it becomes uncomfortable/awkward to constantly use a full chapter name, but if I try to make a useful shorthand for them... what on earth could I possibly use to abbreviate/nickname a moniker like Knights Radiant, for instance?

 

So, unless something truly mind-blowing happens along, I think I'll stick with Bright Lords as the best option on the table.

[Ace Debonair]

Well, either could work, but to be honest they sound a little florid to me, and the Bright Lords aren't intended to be an excessively knightly chapter. Bright Lords is quick and snappy, something pithy I can use in a conversation or text without feeling like I'm stumbling over myself. It sounds "right" to me. Much longer than that, and it becomes uncomfortable/awkward to constantly use a full chapter name, but if I try to make a useful shorthand for them... what on earth could I possibly use to abbreviate/nickname a moniker like Knights Radiant, for instance?

 

So, unless something truly mind-blowing happens along, I think I'll stick with Bright Lords as the best option on the table.

 

Initials, perhaps? KR for Knights Radiant, or RL for Radiant Lords.

Mind you, this is coming from a guy who has a chapter called the Red Lords, and another called the Rift Lords... Maybe I just subconsciously push for chapters with the initials RL. :cry:

If you want a formal shorthand, then either Knights or Lords would fit the bill, depending on which you went with.

 

In all seriousness, if you're happy with Bright Lords as a name, keep it. It's your chapter, after all.

[Brother Daeger Helsir]

I think I'm happy with Bright Lords. Besides that, there are so many chapters with "knight" or "lord" as part of the title that either of those words wouldn't make for a very specific nickname. :P