Traitor INSPIRED loyal chapter

[Arnil]

I like that idea! If you do that I would recommend a black Templar succession as those guys have crusades against chaos and stuff...kind of like...a, whatever the black Templar are run by, decideds that a dedicated force should be assigned to hunt down the chaos legions. After getting approval from the Hugh lords of Terra, and the high lords of terra...... :lol:......and the admech of course...the Astatres Dohickies are made...or whatever you called them hahahahaha!

 

Maybe even one chapter with a dedicated company for each legion with the 10th being the scout company....

[Brother Daeger Helsir]

As cool as the concept and name of the Venases is, the problem is that there's already a chapter that does this. Hunting down and destroying Chaos and Chaotic Marines is the express mission of the Grey Knights, who are made out by the fluff to be more or less dozens of times better at said job than anyone else, even other Space Marines, would be.

 

Astartes Venases are a tangent from your original concept, and unfortunately, cross over the boundaries of one of the DIY do's and don'ts - namely, that one should avoid creating chapters which fill the same role as preexisting Imperial organizations.

 

Now then, onto your original idea about pre-heresy-traitor-legion inspired Space Marine chapters.

 

Substitute Night Lords- As has been mentioned, this is fairly easy. A successor chapter of the Raven Guard, who take things a little further than their forebearers and are more willing to employ brutal and underhanded tactics to see the job done. The suspicion of their peers, rigorous self-discipline, and the warning legends of the Night Lords' eventual fate serve as a check so that the Chapter takes measures to ensure it does not turn into such a monster, and unlike Night Haunter the Chapter Master has the good sense NOT to recruit psychopathic criminals as astartes!

 

Substitute World Eaters: Recruit from a homeworld where institutionalized gladiatorial combat is common; On this planet, there are numerous Gladiator "families" or bloodlines that are granted significant prestige, and it is commmon knowledge that the best gladiators, upon proving themselves, may be offered freedom in the form of a chance to join the ranks of the Space Marine chapters. The chapter emphasizes the fury of close combat over ranged warfare, and see rage as one of the deadliest weapons a warrior can posess. However they recognize that anger, like all powerful weapons, can be extraordinarily dangerous to their wielder unless used properly. The chapter has developed psyco-indoctrination methods and mnemonic rituals that allow the battle-brothers to work themselves into a battle-trance, endowed with an instinctual and furious but controlled frenzy before a battle, a blast furnace to the Word bearer's bonfire. This state fuels them with such focused rage that they enter a flow state where time slows down and they are nigh-unstoppable in close combat, ignoring wounds for as long as it takes them to destroy their enemies; but as it is a mind-state that must be worked towards and achieved, they retain greater lucidity and self-control in this fury-trance, and are no more agressive than any other Astartes outside of it.

 

Although the Fury Trance grants the Chapter truly awesome combat prowess, the nature of this battle meditation is such that battle-brothers of this chapter tend to leave themselves more open to attack, and as such most members of the chapter pick up horrendous injuries and become heavily scarred. In addition, the all-out fury with which they hurl themselves into battle, although both commendable and undeniably effective, lends itself to a reluctance to retreat even when withdrawal would be wise, and the Chapter sustains a somewhat higher combat mortality rate than others.

 

Substitute Thousand Sons: These already exist, to a tee. They're called the Blood Ravens. No further efforts required here.

 

Substitute Iron Warriors: The Imperial Fists themselves are already pretty much this, which was a major cause for the rivalry between Peturabo and Dorn, but if you want you could create an Imperial Fists successor which even more strongly resembles the Iron Warriors, with a mostly unadorned metallic colorscheme and a passion for the arts of seige, fortification, and defense. Alternately, you could use some Iron Hand influences, as both the Hands and the Warriors employ cybernetics to a significantly high degree.

 

Substitute Death Guard: These would probably be done best as another IF successor, considering the stolid nature of both Legions, or else an Ultramarines succesor. These Marines take to their duties with little fanfare but unquestionable loyalty and unbreakable determination. This Chapter has a working but cool relationship with the AdMech, and cares vastly more about pure functionality than matters of appearance or having the latest technology. This leads them to have a battered, worn-down, even tarnished appearance, as their wargear is often given little more than the barest minimum of maintenance to appease the machine-spirit and keep the equipment working. This is ironic, as their outwardly tarnished appearance belies their inner incorruptability. They have relatively few vehicles as a result of this as well, which suits them just fine as their approach favors the use of infantry to grind their foes into the dirt. Due to a subtle shift in their geneseed, their poison-neutralizing implants are hyperactive, granting them extraordinarily powerful immune systems and hazardous material resistance greater even than regular space marines, but also causing their bodies to react violently towards various substances that are actually completely innocuous. This means that their aspirants have a lower success rate than other Chapters.

 

The marines of this chapter are percieved as being very grim and dour and lacking a sense of humor, but extremely valiant, never flagging or quitting in the execution of their duties no matter the odds and unable to be dissuaded from achieving their goal once they have decided on a course of action.

[Heru]

As cool as the concept and name of the Venases is, the problem is that there's already a chapter that does this. Hunting down and destroying Chaos and Chaotic Marines is the express mission of the Grey Knights, who are made out by the fluff to be more or less dozens of times better at said job than anyone else, even other Space Marines, would be.

No the express mission of the Grey Knights is dealing with the Daemonic. The mortal minions of Chaos are for everyone else to deal with. For example the Chaos Renegade faction known as The Punishers has seven Space Marine Chapters charged with their elimination. Then there is the Astartes Praeses who are tasked with guarding the frontiers of the Eye of Terror.

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

I like that idea! If you do that I would recommend a black Templar succession as those guys have crusades against chaos and stuff...kind of like...a, whatever the black Templar are run by, decideds that a dedicated force should be assigned to hunt down the chaos legions. After getting approval from the Hugh lords of Terra, and the high lords of terra...... ......and the admech of course...the Astatres Dohickies are made...or whatever you called them hahahahaha!

 

Maybe even one chapter with a dedicated company for each legion with the 10th being the scout company....

 

They are called Marshals, and the BT successor is a good idea as they are used to it but for some reason I've always had a hard time thinking of the BT having successors, its the same as the Space Wolves to me who have only ever had one.

 

As cool as the concept and name of the Venases is, the problem is that there's already a chapter that does this. Hunting down and destroying Chaos and Chaotic Marines is the express mission of the Grey Knights, who are made out by the fluff to be more or less dozens of times better at said job than anyone else, even other Space Marines, would be.

 

Astartes Venases are a tangent from your original concept, and unfortunately, cross over the boundaries of one of the DIY do's and don'ts - namely, that one should avoid creating chapters which fill the same role as preexisting Imperial organizations.

 

Now then, onto your original idea about pre-heresy-traitor-legion inspired Space Marine chapters.

 

Substitute Night Lords- As has been mentioned, this is fairly easy. A successor chapter of the Raven Guard, who take things a little further than their forebearers and are more willing to employ brutal and underhanded tactics to see the job done. The suspicion of their peers, rigorous self-discipline, and the warning legends of the Night Lords' eventual fate serve as a check so that the Chapter takes measures to ensure it does not turn into such a monster, and unlike Night Haunter the Chapter Master has the good sense NOT to recruit psychopathic criminals as astartes!

 

Substitute World Eaters: Recruit from a homeworld where institutionalized gladiatorial combat is common; On this planet, there are numerous Gladiator "families" or bloodlines that are granted significant prestige, and it is commmon knowledge that the best gladiators, upon proving themselves, may be offered freedom in the form of a chance to join the ranks of the Space Marine chapters. The chapter emphasizes the fury of close combat over ranged warfare, and see rage as one of the deadliest weapons a warrior can posess. However they recognize that anger, like all powerful weapons, can be extraordinarily dangerous to their wielder unless used properly. The chapter has developed psyco-indoctrination methods and mnemonic rituals that allow the battle-brothers to work themselves into a battle-trance, endowed with an instinctual and furious but controlled frenzy before a battle, a blast furnace to the Word bearer's bonfire. This state fuels them with such focused rage that they enter a flow state where time slows down and they are nigh-unstoppable in close combat, ignoring wounds for as long as it takes them to destroy their enemies; but as it is a mind-state that must be worked towards and achieved, they retain greater lucidity and self-control in this fury-trance, and are no more agressive than any other Astartes outside of it.

 

Although the Fury Trance grants the Chapter truly awesome combat prowess, the nature of this battle meditation is such that battle-brothers of this chapter tend to leave themselves more open to attack, and as such most members of the chapter pick up horrendous injuries and become heavily scarred. In addition, the all-out fury with which they hurl themselves into battle, although both commendable and undeniably effective, lends itself to a reluctance to retreat even when withdrawal would be wise, and the Chapter sustains a somewhat higher combat mortality rate than others.

 

Substitute Thousand Sons: These already exist, to a tee. They're called the Blood Ravens. No further efforts required here.

 

Substitute Iron Warriors: The Imperial Fists themselves are already pretty much this, which was a major cause for the rivalry between Peturabo and Dorn, but if you want you could create an Imperial Fists successor which even more strongly resembles the Iron Warriors, with a mostly unadorned metallic colorscheme and a passion for the arts of seige, fortification, and defense. Alternately, you could use some Iron Hand influences, as both the Hands and the Warriors employ cybernetics to a significantly high degree.

 

Substitute Death Guard: These would probably be done best as another IF successor, considering the stolid nature of both Legions, or else an Ultramarines succesor. These Marines take to their duties with little fanfare but unquestionable loyalty and unbreakable determination. This Chapter has a working but cool relationship with the AdMech, and cares vastly more about pure functionality than matters of appearance or having the latest technology. This leads them to have a battered, worn-down, even tarnished appearance, as their wargear is often given little more than the barest minimum of maintenance to appease the machine-spirit and keep the equipment working. This is ironic, as their outwardly tarnished appearance belies their inner incorruptability. They have relatively few vehicles as a result of this as well, which suits them just fine as their approach favors the use of infantry to grind their foes into the dirt. Due to a subtle shift in their geneseed, their poison-neutralizing implants are hyperactive, granting them extraordinarily powerful immune systems and hazardous material resistance greater even than regular space marines, but also causing their bodies to react violently towards various substances that are actually completely innocuous. This means that their aspirants have a lower success rate than other Chapters.

 

The marines of this chapter are percieved as being very grim and dour and lacking a sense of humor, but extremely valiant, never flagging or quitting in the execution of their duties no matter the odds and unable to be dissuaded from achieving their goal once they have decided on a course of action.

 

As Heru Talon says below the Grey Knights combat the daemonic not the legions. Sometimes the legions just get in the way :D

 

As for the replacement chapters I do like a few of your ideas particullarly a ludas BUT I don't want the "replacment" chapters to be exact copies so the gladiator bit is probably out for the chapter as thats to close to World Eaters for my taste, here are a few details for 2 of what I've already created. I'm still working on some others

 

Knights Aquilla: Emperor's Children

Gene Seed: Ultramarines

Combat Doctrine: Tactically flexible for all situations, every marine must train in all forms of warfare so as to master war

Organization: All 10 companies are battle companies, every company responsible for its own recruitment, veterans spread throughout companies

Beliefs: Martial Perfection (kind of like samurai)

 

Ghosts of War: Night Lords

Gene Seed: Raven Guard

Combat Doctrine: Use stealth and terror tactics to demoralize, intimidate and divide enemy forces followed by swift rapid strikes against the disorganised foe.

Organization: As per codex, veteran units organised into stealth squads who specialise in covert ops

 

As cool as the concept and name of the Venases is, the problem is that there's already a chapter that does this. Hunting down and destroying Chaos and Chaotic Marines is the express mission of the Grey Knights, who are made out by the fluff to be more or less dozens of times better at said job than anyone else, even other Space Marines, would be.

No the express mission of the Grey Knights is dealing with the Daemonic. The mortal minions of Chaos are for everyone else to deal with. For example the Chaos Renegade faction known as The Punishers has seven Space Marine Chapters charged with their elimination. Then there is the Astartes Praeses who are tasked with guarding the frontiers of the Eye of Terror.

 

Maybe the Dark hunters (one of those chapters) are apart of the Astartes Venases :D

 

I think that even if the "replacment legion" chapters dosen't really go anywhere I think I will go forward with the Venases, even if just for myself.

[Brother Daeger Helsir]

Oh? My mistake then, I suppose. Not that I'm particularly upset at being shown to be wrong, since I do think the Astartes Venases are a pretty cool idea.

[Arnil]

Space marines with allergies FTW! But yeah the life and flavor of the trator legions are what drive several CSM players to chaos in the first place! By the emperor we need to show them we can party like it is hot hey hey. Lolz!

 

The venases are awesome in my opinion haha if you don't do it I might hahaha! I think I'll personally explore the odd chapters after my necrons have come to fruition...

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

Well what I think I might do is make a seperate post concerning the idea and invite people to make their own successor chapter of the Venases

[Leonaides]

Just to throw a spanner in the works but:

Knights Aquilla: Emperor's Children

Gene Seed: Ultramarines

Combat Doctrine: Tactically flexible for all situations, every marine must train in all forms of warfare so as to master war

Organization: All 10 companies are battle companies, every company responsible for its own recruitment, veterans spread throughout companies

Beliefs: Martial Perfection (kind of like samurai)

All marines are expected to train in all forms of warfare, and are expected to be tactially flexible. But there will naturally be some who's marksmanship is over and above their peers, and those who's ability in close combat is similarly above the norm. These guys will be assigned to specialist squads (devs and assault marine squads for example) as using them elsewhere would be the height of stupidity for their leaders (who are apparently 'masters of war'), unless it is absolutely necessary for them to be deployed in other squads. No ifs, buts or maybes. If your captains are good enough to be captains, then they will have the brains to use their marines where they are each best used. And how do the individual companies maange theri own recruitment/training needs if they have been deployed? Or do they only deploy in half companies? Who divies up the recruits who survived whatever tests they had to do, and decides that company 3 gets 3 guys who show promise as assault troops, while company 6 only gets 1 guy. There must be a central recruitment system of some kind, and havin geach company responsible for its own recruitment on a long-term basis is inefficent. Which lead to less marines avaialble to do their job. Which means the masters of war arent actually as capable of waging war as they should be.

 

Ghosts of War: Night Lords

Gene Seed: Raven Guard

Combat Doctrine: Use stealth and terror tactics to demoralize, intimidate and divide enemy forces followed by swift rapid strikes against the disorganised foe.

Organization: As per codex, veteran units organised into stealth squads who specialise in covert ops

Combat doctrine is the same as other marine chapters except for the terror part, which most chapters probably have as an occasional thing. And if the vet squads are organised in to stealth squads, then they're not organised as codex. Who's in the Termie armour? Who's in the Vanguard/Sternguard squads and why isnt the stealth part done by scouts like elsewhere? Even the RG use their scouts for stealty missions, not generally full marines, so the masters of stealth in the Imperium would disagree with your chapters idea of using veterans as stealth troops. If they've dismissed it as an idea, why should it work any better for your guys?

 

Sorry, but people not thinking through the logical consequences of proposed DIY's tends to get my goat. Not trying to be nasty, but those ideas would need significant re-writing in my opinion, especially as I can see flaws like that without even trying to critique them fully.

[Arnil]

I would recommend the Knights Aqullia has a recruitment and conversion site and then the new scouts are sent out to where ever the chapter is...a as needed basis but mostly evenly distributed...

 

 

The Ghosts Of War's veteran stealth squads aren't the hiding and sneaking kind of squad...these are razor sharp killers...they string the enemy Hq units up in trees hanging by their entrails they set rumors of the ghosts In the night...not a scout job. This isn't stealth this is sabotage and terror attacks....

[Leonaides]

But sabotage IS a scout tactic. As is terror, when neccessary (though more often that not fear will do the job before Terror is required).

[Arnil]

Well okay sure that is true but I mean rambo style infiltration. Rulewise ot would be scouts...or vanguards and we say they infiltrated but fluff wise they are uber cool rambo guys

[Leonaides]

The Uber cool Rambo guys are the ones wearing Tactical Dreadnought Armour... You do know that dont you? :)

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

The Uber cool Rambo guys are the ones wearing Tactical Dreadnought Armour... You do know that dont you? ;)

 

:) what? Rambo terminators?

[Arnil]

I love the idea of Rambo Termies but they are too bulky...you have to be able to sweeping advance if your rambo lolz.