Tactical Squads?

[rocketrollrebel]

Hey there all, haven't posted on here in a long time and my BA have been out of commission for about a year but I'm looking to bring them back to the table!

 

So my first few games I have noticed right away that I need to do some serious adjusting to my army since it is currently built to the PDF codex and I have a mess of tactical squads. From what I've been reading Tac's are not a favorite choice for a lot of people out there but I'm in a position of working with what I have as was wondering how people are using them these days with the new dex? Whats a good way to run them or whats a good roll for them in this brave new world dominated by (our admittedly superior) assault marines?

 

Thanks for the help!

[angel of justice]

My tournament list has 2 with plasma gun and cannon and a sergent with powerfist and stormbolter, They hold objectives well and are hard to shift when paired with a priest and if i find myself with spare points i will give them a rhino or razorback they are not the nail drivers that the death company are but they work well for me so i keep em.

[Isryion]

I take one unit with PC, PG, PF exactly for reasons angel says. I needed some long range firepower against MEQ and they help provide that, though I also combine a priest and small dev squad (2 more PC) to provide a very solid firebase.

[Kapitalist-Pig]

I would say that to dismiss Tacticals squads all together is a very bad idea. While assault marines are the bulk of most BA armies, I think that tactical squads give you the flexibility to deal with horde armies.

 

Lets for instance look at Orks. They tend to have a bunch of models, around here at least. The fire base that tactical squads provide increases the total ability of your Assault troops by picking off those extra boys that tend to get you squad killed.

 

I try to always run 2 assaults squad and 2 Tactical squads, giving me my forward push (assault marines) with my defensive base (tactical marines).

Not to mention if I have the points I try to give my tactical squads rhinos, giving me a better chance at driving up in the last turn and contesting an objective I cannot control.

 

BA I think now more then ever is about balance and synergy. Units building on each other supporting what the others do.

[Leonaides]

Put simply, over 25 games since the codex came out, I've only regretted taking tacticals over assault marines once (and I still won that game - just had to take the charge and deal with the casualties). I've regretted taking assualt marines over tacticals 5 or 6 times... Notable high points being 15 assault marines being shot to pieces by a 6 strong Nob warbiker squad 19" away and being laughed at by an IG player becuase he toasted both of my LR's and then I had to cross open ground in front of his Demolisher and Vanquisher without any appreciable cover.

 

I wouldnt say that there is anything wrong with a BA army with a strong Tactical contingent - as a flexible unit like that is the glue between our fast tanks (baals etc) and our dedicated assault units (DC, SG, RAS, VV, etc).

[rocketrollrebel]

Thanks for the replys so far. So should I be taking a heavy and maybe combat squading? Sending forward serg and the special and maybe a priest? I am working on building assault squads but I just gotta get the funds built up to get the army up to date!

[Alexos]

I think that taking two tac squads would be a good choice, they can capture objectives and hold ground while the flyboys take care of the rest. We need to know what you usually deal with when playing. It doesn't have to be specific. Do you deal with horder armies or more elite, long range ones?

[Anarchyman99]

I'm having the same problems...it "feels" odd to not be using Tactical Squads. I'm running 3 ten strong Assault Squads, and 1 ten strong Scouts with BP/CCW. I don't run assault weapons in my Assault Squads but the Sgt has Melta Bombs (I know...I'm nuts), I like the idea of the Plasma Gun/Cannon tooled unit. I'm just unsure.

[mysteriousmaskedmystery]

plasma is always good, but then again so is an ML, and it's cheap/free.

[Kapitalist-Pig]

You can use tactical squad to sure up wholes in your army that have been taken out. Need an objective, tactical, need some long range bite? Tactical with HW upgrade. Need some additional assualt models to make sure the enemy goes down plug them in.

[Angelus Mortifer]

Hey Rodders.

 

I use a Tac Squad for the main part of a firebase (supported by a LC/ML Dread, and LS Typhoon if needed), and let the likes of the Asst Sqds/DC/CC Dreads etc advance forward and get to grips with the enemy and objectives. If needed (and as happens quite often), I leave a 5-man combat squad with LC or PC (depending on the enemy) to sit back whilst a RB sends the other half of the squad forward to supplement the assaults (PW, MG and Priest usually).

 

It's generally worked quite well, and I certainly think Tac Squads have a place in the new Codex but perhaps less so than the PDF days, for understandable reasons.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

To me tactical squads are a throwback to how we played using the PDF. That said I realize you have to work with what you've got on hand. Ideally I don't see more than one tactical squad as necessary. There are just better units to work with now as a whole since the new codex was released.

 

0b :P

[Firedrake28]

To me tactical squads are a throwback to how we played using the PDF. That said I realize you have to work with what you've got on hand. Ideally I don't see more than one tactical squad as necessary. There are just better units to work with now as a whole since the new codex was released.

 

0b

 

This pretty much reflects my thoughts exactly. In less than 2,000 points there's no room for a Tactical squad in my army.

[lunchb0x]

To me tactical squads are a throwback to how we played using the PDF. That said I realize you have to work with what you've got on hand. Ideally I don't see more than one tactical squad as necessary. There are just better units to work with now as a whole since the new codex was released.

 

0b

 

This pretty much reflects my thoughts exactly. In less than 2,000 points there's no room for a Tactical squad in my army.

 

 

What they said, minus the not taking in less then 2k. I always try to take one squad. My fav tactic is combat squad with flamer and power weapon/melta bombs in a rhino/razorback moving up with a combat or 5 man assault squad then having the rhino go ahead of the assault squad, bail out shoot everything in sight to soften it up as the assault squad charges in. So far...it works beautifully!!!

[Brother Kovash]

I'm bringing along a Tactical Squad just for objective holding. Might put them in a razorback for an added fire base.

[Firedrake28]

I'm bringing along a Tactical Squad just for objective holding. Might put them in a razorback for an added fire base.

 

You can get a better firebase for less points, though.

 

Consider the following: A 5 man Tactical Squad in a Razorback is actually more expensive than a 5 man Assault squad with a meltagun in a Razorback by 15 points. That means you could afford to give the Sergeant of the Assault squad an infernus pistol if you wanted and you'd be breaking even.

 

About the only time I can see taking a Tactical squad being a good idea is if you're going to take the full ten men and load them up in a Rhino where they can at least shoot out of the transport's fire points.

[SamaNagol]

Even then, you could take 10 Assault Marines with 2 Plasmaguns and fire them out the roof and still have points left over for a PW on the Sergeant

[Chairman_woo]

Even then, you could take 10 Assault Marines with 2 Plasmaguns and fire them out the roof and still have points left over for a PW on the Sergeant

 

Exept that you cant take Plasmaguns on RAS....... :rolleyes:

 

 

 

 

 

....Really wish I could tho :eek

[Morollan]

Even then, you could take 10 Assault Marines with 2 Plasmaguns and fire them out the roof and still have points left over for a PW on the Sergeant

 

Exept that you cant take Plasmaguns on RAS....... :rolleyes:

 

 

 

 

 

....Really wish I could tho :mellow:

 

Actually, you can. It's in the same entry as plasma/infernus pistols @ 15 points, one per 5 models in squad.

[vahouth]

Even then, you could take 10 Assault Marines with 2 Plasmaguns and fire them out the roof and still have points left over for a PW on the Sergeant

 

Exept that you cant take Plasmaguns on RAS....... :rolleyes:

 

 

 

 

 

....Really wish I could tho :mellow:

 

Actually, you can. It's in the same entry as plasma/infernus pistols @ 15 points, one per 5 models in squad.

 

Plasma pistols actually...

[Morollan]

Even then, you could take 10 Assault Marines with 2 Plasmaguns and fire them out the roof and still have points left over for a PW on the Sergeant

 

Exept that you cant take Plasmaguns on RAS....... :rolleyes:

 

 

 

 

 

....Really wish I could tho :mellow:

 

Actually, you can. It's in the same entry as plasma/infernus pistols @ 15 points, one per 5 models in squad.

 

Plasma pistols actually...

 

I'm looking at it right now. It says:

 

For every five models in the squad, one Space Marine can replace his Bolt Pistol with one of the following:

- a flamer.......+5 points per model

- a meltagun or hand flamer......+10 points per model

- a plasma gun/pistol or infernus pistol......+15 points per model

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

I'm bringing along a Tactical Squad just for objective holding. Might put them in a razorback for an added fire base.

 

You can get a better firebase for less points, though.

 

Consider the following: A 5 man Tactical Squad in a Razorback is actually more expensive than a 5 man Assault squad with a meltagun in a Razorback by 15 points. That means you could afford to give the Sergeant of the Assault squad an infernus pistol if you wanted and you'd be breaking even.

 

About the only time I can see taking a Tactical squad being a good idea is if you're going to take the full ten men and load them up in a Rhino where they can at least shoot out of the transport's fire points.

 

You are comparing apples to oranges there.. A 10 man Tactical Squad with Launcher and Melta/Plasma Gun with a PF/PS Sergeant in a Razorback is only slightly more expensive than the 10 man RAS option with 2 melta/plasma guns.

But the Tactical Squad has the advantage of being more tactically diverse and a longer range on all models except the Melta/plasma.

 

No.. a RAS cannot do everything a Tactical Squad can do.. and they can only do the assault marginally better when you put them in a Razorback.

 

So yes, a Tactical Squad is a good basis of any army at any point level.

[vahouth]

Even then, you could take 10 Assault Marines with 2 Plasmaguns and fire them out the roof and still have points left over for a PW on the Sergeant

 

Exept that you cant take Plasmaguns on RAS.......

 

 

 

 

 

....Really wish I could tho

 

Actually, you can. It's in the same entry as plasma/infernus pistols @ 15 points, one per 5 models in squad.

 

Plasma pistols actually...

 

I'm looking at it right now. It says:

 

For every five models in the squad, one Space Marine can replace his Bolt Pistol with one of the following:

- a flamer.......+5 points per model

- a meltagun or hand flamer......+10 points per model

- a plasma gun/pistol or infernus pistol......+15 points per model

 

What the...

How could I miss THAT!

That gives space for some really interesting builds. Hmmm...

[Anarchyman99]

Even then, you could take 10 Assault Marines with 2 Plasmaguns and fire them out the roof and still have points left over for a PW on the Sergeant

 

Exept that you cant take Plasmaguns on RAS.......

 

 

 

 

 

....Really wish I could tho

 

Actually, you can. It's in the same entry as plasma/infernus pistols @ 15 points, one per 5 models in squad.

 

Plasma pistols actually...

 

I'm looking at it right now. It says:

 

For every five models in the squad, one Space Marine can replace his Bolt Pistol with one of the following:

- a flamer.......+5 points per model

- a meltagun or hand flamer......+10 points per model

- a plasma gun/pistol or infernus pistol......+15 points per model

 

What the...

How could I miss THAT!

That gives space for some really interesting builds. Hmmm...

 

With the Plasma Guns being rapid fire you can't charge if you fire, just something to think about.

[Isryion]

I realize there are some people that think that Assault Squads are better in all cases, but they're not.

 

A razorback with 5 or 6 RAS is not a firebase. It's a gun. A gun for almost 185 points (assuming you go with AssC or LC) that can be neutralized in one shot. Is it a bad unit? It's actually a good one, but it is not a firebase.

 

Without a doubt, a 5 man tactical squad is a joke, so not sure why that even got brought up except to make RAS look a lot more appealing. The strength of the TAC squad is at 10, where you get cheap special weapons and a lot of rapid fire bolters.

 

I toyed around with the idea of paying for 10 RAS and giving them two plasma guns. They can't actually assault if they fire the guns, so you're really wasting points here to keep a unit from doing what is actually good at. A 10 man RAS with 2 plasma guns in a Rhino is the ultimate in lack of point efficiency. 235 without a fist.

 

When I use my single TAC squad above (PG/PC), they're basic after that. No PW, no ride (yes, I realize it's not fashionable, but there are other ways to play this game and with a TAC squad you don't need the ride -- this mythical RAS firebase people are discussing does). Basically, nothing to increase the cost. They can command a quarter-half of the board on their own and usually take far more to root out than they cost. I find that when I don't take any long range firepower, I actually lose initiative in the battle.

 

I'd agree, in general, though, that while TAC squads aren't overpriced, there are a lot of options that are more appealing. Still, I think they have a role to play. Dev squads can play the role more cheaply, though they lack the resilience and the scoring power. It's one of the reasons I really like the new codex. There are a variety of builds that can work.