Couple more questions

[fallynnknivez]

Okay yesterday we had a couple things come up, now that we are scrutinizing rules. Just wanted to see what the pros had to say about them.

 

So the rule is that you declare an entire unit in cover when 50% or more of the unit is within/between/whateva, for the sake of firing AT a unit. On the flipside a unit in cover can fire out of up to 2" of cover before confering a cover save on the target. Does this work just like recieving cover saves? So if 50% is firing out of 2" of terrain does that mean the whole unit is firing out of terrain, or would you a cover not apply to those that are not firing out of 2" and apply to those that are? We can not find a rule that specifies firing out of cover in this context, but it would only make sense that if you would declare an entire unit in cover for saving throws, you would declare the entire unit in cover (provided 50% or more is firing through 2" of cover) for the sake of its targets cover saves.

 

I really suck at typing out these questions sorry bout that.

 

The other question that we had is it states on the first turn you MUST make your drop pod assault. My friend moved like two of his units then remembered the drop pod assault with his dreadnaught. I let him have it, but we were discussing since it says HAVE too, would he normally in that instance (like if it was a tournament or not-so-friendly game) just lose the chance to drop pod? I am thinking the drop pod option would be gone, and he would have the ability to bring it in from reserve (if dreadnaughts even get a reserve option) if not, then it would be lost, much like the necron reserve option through their monolith if the monolith is destroyed. He believes that since it says HAVE too then he would never lose the ability even though it is supposed to be the beginning of HIS turn 1. Typical rule lawyering i was thinking its like deepstrike. If ya forget it, and start to move other models, then you lost it that turn, and since it is only a turn 1 thing it would be lost.

 

We always have tons of questions each game, and i have just started to write them down so we are not discussing the same thing each game we play and never coming to a conclusion (i usually just give it to him, or we roll a die if it majorly affects the outcome/course of a game). I am starting my own little FAQ on all this stuff for our reference

[Hellios]

The other question that we had is it states on the first turn you MUST make your drop pod assault. My friend moved like two of his units then remembered the drop pod assault with his dreadnaught. I let him have it, but we were discussing since it says HAVE too, would he normally in that instance (like if it was a tournament or not-so-friendly game) just lose the chance to drop pod? I am thinking the drop pod option would be gone, and he would have the ability to bring it in from reserve (if dreadnaughts even get a reserve option) if not, then it would be lost, much like the necron reserve option through their monolith if the monolith is destroyed. He believes that since it says HAVE too then he would never lose the ability even though it is supposed to be the beginning of HIS turn 1. Typical rule lawyering i was thinking its like deepstrike. If ya forget it, and start to move other models, then you lost it that turn, and since it is only a turn 1 thing it would be lost.

 

We always have tons of questions each game, and i have just started to write them down so we are not discussing the same thing each game we play and never coming to a conclusion (i usually just give it to him, or we roll a die if it majorly affects the outcome/course of a game). I am starting my own little FAQ on all this stuff for our reference

 

Ok I'm feeling a little soft today... but in a tournament it could depend on how the judges feel... You might get DQed for 'cheating', you might just lose the use of the drop pod assault rule or if what you have done will not make any difference then they might just let you drop in like you did... which IMHO is the best thing if possible... obviously if you moved say an icon or teleport homer you wouldn't get the benefit of that unless you would have recived it if the squad hadn't moved anyway...

 

In friendly games the way you resolved it is good... if you want to go to a tournies I suggest you get a solid understanding of the core rules and the rules used by your army... knowledge of other forces is beneficial... if you want to get involved in really big events it is worth practising with your army to try and minimise the number of mistakes you make when it is time for the real deal.

[Frosty the Pyro]

Drop pod assault is required, you may not opt to not drop things.

 

So the rule is that you declare an entire unit in cover when 50% or more of the unit is within/between/whateva, for the sake of firing AT a unit. On the flipside a unit in cover can fire out of up to 2" of cover before confering a cover save on the target. Does this work just like recieving cover saves? So if 50% is firing out of 2" of terrain does that mean the whole unit is firing out of terrain, or would you a cover not apply to those that are not firing out of 2" and apply to those that are? We can not find a rule that specifies firing out of cover in this context, but it would only make sense that if you would declare an entire unit in cover for saving throws, you would declare the entire unit in cover (provided 50% or more is firing through 2" of cover) for the sake of its targets cover saves.

 

Units fire as a whole, and are targeted as a whole. In the most thourogh case each attacking model would trace it LOS to the target model, if half or more of the attacking models have their LOS obstructed (even a little bit) that targeted model counts as having cover. Aditionaly in targeted model standing in area terain counts as having cover regardless of LOS. You do this for every targeted model. If half or more of the models in the targeted unit count as having cover then the entire targed unit gets the save. If not then none of the targeted unit gets the save. When determining if LOS is obstructed there are some things you can ignore as if they were not there, 2" of area terrain you are standing in is one of those (though if the target is also standing in the terain they still get cover, as standing in area terrain takes precidence), as is your own unit, as is any wall you can see over and are BtB with.

[fallynnknivez]

Yeah, the drop pods was my friends. He forgot it, had moved and then remembered, of course i gave it to him. EVERY time he uses it, he goes first, and thats just KP's walking over to me most of the time. Then he turns around to Immobilise my Land Raider and wipe my two defilers off the board in that first turn. It was horrible. But i still won 9 KP's to 4, using nothing but 2 oblits, footslogging Berzerkers, CSM's in a Rhino and a warptime DP.

 

As for the 2" of terrain, he is very big on ruins and little rubble piles, buildings that are not tall enough to cover anything larger then a DP, and barely large enough to cover said DP, and has a house rule that elevation confers a 4+ cover, and standing base to base, and one model row behind that to a window is a 3+ save. Makes the game a little harder, so yesterday after he built a new piece of terrain he was discussing how being base to base with the wall was a 3+ and for about two inches in front of that wall, to the edge of the terrain piece was all cover. I tend to think about terrain as both playing with, and against as you never know what you are up against once the terrain is re-arranged. So i was telling him about the rule i had read a few weeks back about firing out of 2" of cover confers a cover for your target, just to make it a little more entertaining all around (the terrain has cover on opposite corners, but none in the center... here http://www.miniwargaming.com/forum/viewtop...ilit=hendrics84 now you can see it) Thats when he asked me that question.

 

I tried to explain that if for the purpose of taking cover saves you determine, using the 50% and above technique, wether the unit is deemed to be in cover. I told him for firing out of cover i would see no reason why the same rule would not apply? Measure from the firer in cover to its target for each model firing. If it exceeds 2" into the terrain, and 50%+ of the units that can fire are determined to give cover, then the entire unit is giving cover. He believes that if he had 3 guys up front that where say an inch away from the edge of cover, and the other 7 of his marines where behind the 2" mark then he would roll the 3 in front without cover, and the 7 in back with cover. Either way works, but i just feel his way is a little more difficult then the rules intend it to be. 40k is fairly simplistic rules and i don't see it breaking the unit in half like that for this purpose, thats why i posted?

[Arnil]

I usually drop stern guard in my drop pod but i used my multimelta red this last game and it essentially took out my friend's defiler! First Turn! And yeah the dred always has reserves abilities lolz and you must drop half the pods first turn. The rest are reserves.....i would say.....let him drop them but he doesn't get any good benefits that moved there...and if you started shooting....tough luck.

[Tanhausen]

Either all the unit gets/gives cover or none... if your unit is say 60% in cover, ALL of your unit gets cover saves.

[Guest Helen K]

Okay yesterday we had a couple things come up, now that we are scrutinizing rules. Just wanted to see what the pros had to say about them.

 

So the rule is that you declare an entire unit in cover when 50% or more of the unit is within/between/whateva, for the sake of firing AT a unit. On the flipside a unit in cover can fire out of up to 2" of cover before confering a cover save on the target. Does this work just like recieving cover saves? So if 50% is firing out of 2" of terrain does that mean the whole unit is firing out of terrain, or would you a cover not apply to those that are not firing out of 2" and apply to those that are? We can not find a rule that specifies firing out of cover in this context, but it would only make sense that if you would declare an entire unit in cover for saving throws, you would declare the entire unit in cover (provided 50% or more is firing through 2" of cover) for the sake of its targets cover saves.

 

I really suck at typing out these questions sorry bout that.

 

The other question that we had is it states on the first turn you MUST make your drop pod assault. My friend moved like two of his units then remembered the drop pod assault with his dreadnaught. I let him have it, but we were discussing since it says HAVE too, would he normally in that instance (like if it was a tournament or not-so-friendly game) just lose the chance to drop pod? I am thinking the drop pod option would be gone, and he would have the ability to bring it in from reserve (if dreadnaughts even get a reserve option) if not, then it would be lost, much like the necron reserve option through their monolith if the monolith is destroyed. He believes that since it says HAVE too then he would never lose the ability even though it is supposed to be the beginning of HIS turn 1. Typical rule lawyering i was thinking its like deepstrike. If ya forget it, and start to move other models, then you lost it that turn, and since it is only a turn 1 thing it would be lost.

 

We always have tons of questions each game, and i have just started to write them down so we are not discussing the same thing each game we play and never coming to a conclusion (i usually just give it to him, or we roll a die if it majorly affects the outcome/course of a game). I am starting my own little FAQ on all this stuff for our reference

Thanks you for the post.