Creating water style Raven Guard lists

[Lithanial]

Having thought long and hard about what type of army I wish to collect; I have decided to try something a little different. What I am trying to create is a highly tactical Marine force that can out think it's opponent rather than winning with brute force - After all, they are meant to be the masters of warfare. The two tactical doctrines that are in line with this concept are the Raven Guards historical fighting style and the premise of a water list. For those of you unfamiliar with water style lists the aim is to have a large amount of flexibility in each unit to allow you to react or "flow" around your opponents plans.

 

Since I tend to over think things though I thought it would be best if I run through this stage by stage and gather the communities opinions on unit selections.

 

Every army begins with a leader, and the best leaders are able to shape their army into one cohesive fighting force so what better place to start?

 

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HQ Choices for consideration

 

Epistolary

 

The basic Librarian is an effective army support HQ but for what I am aiming to achieve nothing short of an Epistolary will do the job. The thoughts behind this is that to provide the best army support you will want to be using Gate; and if you are using Gate that means two things - you will be teleporting into the open with no cover making Force Barrier highly desirable, and you will likely be in rapid fire range making an offensive power desirable too.

 

With a range of 24" on your teleport attacks you can give your force an element of ambush capability, allowing you to set traps and isolate enemy units. The downside to all this is that Gate is a risky power to use but the benefits outweigh the risk.

 

Bike Captain

 

While the Epistolary can open up tactical options and psychic defense, the bike captain instead alters your force considerably by making space marine bike squads troops. And space marine bike units are probably one of the best water units going, being able to bring specialised weaponry in large volumes precisely where it is needed. The big downside is that without a bike command squad the commander is cross purposes with the army that he will field - he wants to assault, everyone else wants to shoot - and those bike command squads are extremely points inefficient.

 

Further, outside of the restructuring he provides little else.

 

Sicarius

 

Yes he is a special character, and yes he would be a "counts as" but for what this army style is all about he can be ideal. With army wide LD10 your troops become solidly reliable; a useful characteristic when you remember that Raven Guard doctrine is infantry heavy. Further the ability to infiltrate or outflank a tactical squad gives you tactical options you otherwise would not have access to; alternatively if taking the defence against an assault army the combination of counter attack and combat tactics can prove lethal. Add on the re-roll to seize the initiative and Sicarius is a bag of tricks that is hard to ignore.

 

The big downside is he is on foot and cannot teleport like the librarian can - finding a suitable unit for him to accompany is a nightmare.

 

Shrike

 

Shrike needs to be mentioned being the Raven Guards actual special character but goes straight to the bottom of my list simply due to the loss of combat tactics. The addition of fleet is interesting for swamping an opponent with scouts on the first turn but I feel that the water style really needs combat tactics and the ability to pull out from losing battles instead of getting bogged down.

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So, taking into account the above and the feel of the list I am going for, what would you recommend as the HQ choice(s)? The list is going to be aimed at 1500-1850 points.

[minigun762]

I'll give you my 2 cents as a Chaos player.

 

1) Its hard to imagine a competitive Codex list without a Librarian, simply for the Hood.

2) Walking HQs seem alot less scary then fast moving ones because they are exposed to enemy fire and won't get into HtH quickly. This can be mitigated by taking transports but them you are spending more points and killpoints on something that people are gearing up to kill in the current meta-game.

 

For my money, this means that a Biker Captain is probably the best option, supported by a cheap Librarian if possible.

[greatcrusade08]

I play mainly scouts armies, and ive always considered it a water list due to movement and tactics..

although you do lose combat tactics with shrike, taking down some elements of your enemy turn one can have its uses.

 

i also use typhoons and thunderfires, my aim is always to slow the enemy down so that my mobility is always greater.. this is where fleet comes in..

infact ive always believed (thanks to brother Tuals tactica) that the better water lists control the battles to a greater extent.

 

when i pop a transport, the survivors bunch up when they disembark, the t-fires get alot of hits against these guys and cause casualties, the survivors are footsloggers who are outmanevuered by scout bikes and fleeting scouts.. this works better with shrikes JP squad if your using raven guard.

Its then a case of singling out squads that can be beaten in a single turn or two without giving your opponent the time to countercharge