Furious Charge and SP who can tell?

[Kapitalist-Pig]

So to continue on with the discussion here, and if someone more tech savvy than I could post a link here so everyone can catch up on it I woud great;y appriciate it. Cheers!

[ShinyRhino]

Yuo want a link to the GW FAQ?

 

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Custom...Angels_2010.pdf

 

There you go.

[Kapitalist-Pig]

actually it was from the other forum posts but thanks makes it easier for people to see the FAQ.

[Isiah]

Excuse my BA ignorance here, but what's the rules question we're supposed to be discussing please?

 

Cheers

I

[JamesI]

With the change in the BA FAQ, we now measure to see if we get furious charge when it is time to attack.

 

This leads some to say, we don't measure until Initiative 4, meaning that the +1 initiative is meaningless.

 

the other issue is if the priest dies before the squad fights, do they get furious charge bonus.

 

here's a link to the old discussion.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=205376

 

Its a rather long thread, the relevant section will start near the end (page 9 or so)

[Grey Mage]

With the change in the BA FAQ, we now measure to see if we get furious charge when it is time to attack.

 

This leads some to say, we don't measure until Initiative 4, meaning that the +1 initiative is meaningless.

 

the other issue is if the priest dies before the squad fights, do they get furious charge bonus.

 

here's a link to the old discussion.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=205376

 

Its a rather long thread, the relevant section will start near the end (page 9 or so)

Actually, the thing is you have to be able to get the initiative bonus, because the rule says you do. Pretty simple eh?

 

In fact, the FAQ says that you do check to see if the squad is in range at the time they use the bonus- a unit uses its initiative bonus when determining the order in wich the combat will take place, and thus will get its I5 just after the "defenders react" step.

 

Then, when you go at your I5 attacks you check again- and if theyre still in range *wich they should be* you get S5.

 

And then, if you win and want to try and catch your opponent, you check to see if you still have the I bonus to add to your roll by measuring again.

 

Thus, each time you will have checked the distance immediately before using the bonus.

 

Of course, in most cases it will be readily apparent after the first measuring if the priest is still in range or not as he will either A) not have moved or :D Be dead.

[Frosty the Pyro]

And then, if you win and want to try and catch your opponent, you check to see if you still have the I bonus to add to your roll by measuring again.

 

You always use base intive when doing a sweeping advance, no intive bonuses are ever included.

[Grey Mage]

And then, if you win and want to try and catch your opponent, you check to see if you still have the I bonus to add to your roll by measuring again.

 

You always use base intive when doing a sweeping advance, no intive bonuses are ever included.

*shakes head* sorry, just continuing the point, you are correct.

[Valerian]

With the change in the BA FAQ, we now measure to see if we get furious charge when it is time to attack.

 

This leads some to say, we don't measure until Initiative 4, meaning that the +1 initiative is meaningless.

 

the other issue is if the priest dies before the squad fights, do they get furious charge bonus.

 

here's a link to the old discussion.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=205376

 

Its a rather long thread, the relevant section will start near the end (page 9 or so)

 

This is just my perspective, but here is what I see as the deal on this issue. Before the FAQ, it was not uncommon for Blood Angels players to keep a centrally-located Sanguinary Priest behind the front-lines, but within 6" of multiple units. This would allow them to claim the benefit of Furious Charge for several units which would each then make Assault Moves in multiple directions toward several enemy units all at the same time, and often leaving the Sanguinary Priest behind (or even worse, hiding in a transport).

 

To help resolve this use/abuse of the Sanguinary Priests' special rule for the Blood Chalice, GW clarified the issue within the recently released FAQ. In the FAQ they answered that the Priests do not grant Furious Charge prior to the Assault Move, but rather "When you put the bonuses to use, i.e. when the model makes its close combat attacks."

 

In providing such a simple answer to the question of when to determine the effects of the Chalice, GW allowed a new can of worms to be opened. However, that new can of worms only gets opened when players start getting extremely specific about what "when the model makes its close combat attacks" means. The most accurate description of "when" attacks happen is that they occur when we get to the individual model's Initiative value when counting down from 10 to 1 as we cycle through the Initiative Steps and resolve close combat attacks in simultaneous "bands" of equal Initiative values. It is this specific (and valid) interpretation that has caused the conundrum in which a Blood Angels Marine would never get the increased Initiative boost from I4 to I5, because he wouldn't "put the bonus to use" until he made his close combat attacks at I4 - and at that point I5 attacks would have already been resolved. This interpretation is obviously quite extreme, runs counter to how the game is played, and flies in the face of any and all common sense.

 

A better way to think about what GW meant when they said "when a model makes its close combat attacks" is simply to think about this more generally, and understand that you figure out if the Sanguinary Priest is in range once you have made your Assault Move and are Engaged with an enemy unit. It is at that point that your models and the enemy models in those units are going to start "attacking each other in close combat". Certainly the process for resolving those attacks involves the downwards progression through the Initiative bands, but we don't need to worry about that for the purposes of determining which units do, or do not, get the benefits of Furious Charge for having a model within 6" of the Sanguinary Priest.

 

Regards,

 

Valerian