Dealing with mechanized Eldar

[Frustrashun]

Ok, so, in the meta-game in my local 40K scene, there are several players that employ largely mechanized eldar armies. There is, in fact, one player that uses 2 or 3 Fire Prisms when we play 2000+ point games. Not to mention his Wave Serpents running around with squads of Howling Banshees, Dire Avengers (with Exarch for super-shooty ability), and those infernal Fire Dragons (bane of my existence, an entire squad of guys who do nothing but pop my Land Raiders). The other Eldar player relies on less straight-up artillery, but still has a few Falcons and Wave Serpents with Dire Avengers and Wraithguard.

 

I've had some luck fighting these lists with my Chaos Marines army, in large part because I can get the drop on vehicles with deep striking Obliterators, and my troops (mostly Plague Marines) can better withstand the shooting. But what would people suggest when using BA against Eldar mech? I'm putting together a mostly jump equipped army, so I've got a few assault squads with meltas and power fists, but I'm not convinced that they're the most effective means of dealing with Eldar vehicles (spirit stone and holo-fields drive me nuts). Dreadnoughts? Thunder Hammers? What's the best way to keep pace with Eldar vehicles considering they're all fast skimmers?

 

Any input on this would be helpful. Those Fire Prisms especially are a thorn in my side. What seems to be the best way to keep troops safe while getting them into position?

[Jakobus]

I've been looking at the idea of the BaaL Pred & Vidicator combo for Mechdar. Your Baals should have the spped to move to its side armor for the assault cannons and the Vindi to drop a pie plate on them. If the Fireprisms are a big issue, consider outflanking the Baals to bring them into rear armour shots.

 

I haven't thought to much about Banshees but I assume a Furioso would do very bad things to them, I don't know if they come with whatever Eldar Krak grenades are (Haywire?).

[Tame]

I'm in the same boat. I use jump pack based lists, without tanks, and face mostly mech-eldar. I'm not the most experienced player ever, but here's what I do:

 

First, I don't leave without at least one Librarian with blood lance/shield of sanguinius, one honor guard with 3 meltaguns, and 2 assault squads with 2 meltaguns. Usually I add kamikaze land speeders with either multi-melta or missile launchers if I have the points. Can you spot the recurring theme ? :-) Eventually with enough persistence their tanks die, though Holo-fields are indeed very, very annoying ^_^ My job would probably be easier with some Twin-linked autocannons Dreadnoughts, Autocannon/Lascannon Predators or even a Devastator Squad, but I find it doesn't go well with my army theme.

 

As for the squads hidden in the transports, I found the Dire Avengers with Bladestorm isn't a real threat with a priest nearby. The number of hits is impressive for sure, but you get saves and feel no pain. Their defense power is annoying for assault-oriented armies like mine though! Banshees I try to get a couple flamers on them and generally avoid being in their assault range (*). Fire Dragons are annoying because they work very well against small squads, not just tanks. Shield of Sanguinius help, as well as just assaulting them :-)

 

(*) Fun fact though: they aren't equipped to deal with an AV13 Dreadnought in close combat! I found out by trial and error that it's usually hard to manage to bring a Furioso in close combat with them, but if you can pull it off, it's pretty funny, they will be completely stuck.

[dekyr]

You definitely want to go with a couple of Baal preds with AC/HB. Keep them moving to get the +4.

 

What you may want to consider is a Dev squad with 4 PC and a SP. The PC's give you a powerful enough shot to take on the grav tanks and the blast templates to take on squads you may not be able to deal with if things are going bad on the assault front. As an added bonus they are 10pts cheaper than a LC.

 

I run a JP army and these guys do very well. The SP gives them FNP for survivability for those pesky Get Hot scenarios.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Mechdar is always a pain but it can be beat. I think outfanking Baals is a good counter. It's going to be very hard for eldar to prevent rear shots into their skimmer tanks & this negates stuff like holofields. I have often said that the new BA are in many ways like T4 eldar. Capitilise on our speed to beat down mechdar.

 

0b :P

[SamaNagol]

Fast Razorbacks with TLAC shooting them in the side and rear armour.

[lunchb0x]

Dakka.

Dakka.

Dread.

[Redo]

I do not mean to be so cheeky but what does side armour mean to Eldar...they are all Front/Side AV12 and Rear AV10.

 

You need to get to the rear and therefore you definately need fast vehicles to expose the rear. I also think you need to concentrate on Melta Weaponry. Sure against Wave Serpents they do not get the extra D6 penetration but they do not get bumped down to S8 (they are alreay there). I also find that the AP1 awesome for Holofields on Prisms and Falcons. It means that you have a better chance (+1) on the vehicle damage table.

 

Some Bikes or Speeder make good kamikaze hitters, melta equipped Jump Infantry and aviod super expensive tanks like raiders. Unless you can give them a cover save...their toast. Even with a cover save it does not look good when 6 FIre Dragons pop out of a Serpent or Falcon.

[SamaNagol]

Wave Serpents have that annoying thing which stops you getting any bonuses when shooting to the front armour. So no rending on those Assault Cannon.

[angel of justice]

One thing i have in my list to deal with eldar is a frag cannon and heavy flamer furioso dreadnought with a drop pod, his goal is to take down path finders or any other unit of oppurtunity, I was wondering if it would be effective if you deep struck a Dreadnought with frag cannon and heavy flamer in behind a prism or falcon and shot all 3 template weapons at them, 2 strength 6 rending and 1 strength 5 should have a decent chance of dropping a rear armour 10 without the 4+ cover save from moving all out.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Obliterator equivalents?

Speeders, ABikes, Melta weapons in JP squads.

AutoLas Pred, Rifleman Dread ~ 2 tl AC.

 

Sang Priest w/squad makes MEq more like Death Guard.

 

Long range counters speed.

DS counters speed ~ at least for that turn

Speed counters speed :P

 

Razorback with tl LC, LC-Pgs, tl AC are all 12" movement.

 

Dreadnoughts lose nothing if hit by Lances. Drop pods get them there. You just need to make sure where they end up is important.

Pod a Rifleman behind his tanks.

He either turns to face the Dread and gets shot by you AutoLas Preds against rear AV or he doesn't and gets shot by the Rifleman.

Or he scoots away from the Rifleman, but the tl AC can still hit him with 48" range.

 

Imperial solutions to AV are Las and Auto cannons at range. Melta weapons up close. Assault cannons work against AV and mists most Eldar infantry.

 

Power fists, Chain fists and DCCW are all solid against AV, but Eldar Armour is generally beyond arms length :)

[The Yncarne]

I've run that list for a year or so in 5th and now somebody in my group runs something very similar.

 

It may be obvious, but it is the vehicles you want to take down. They'll win you the game. What's more important than the number of vehicles is the number of shots they are firing. That depends on their weapons and whether you can get a hit through. Anything that reduces BS or grants a cover save will help offset his chance of hurting you. An infantry heavy army can fare better than a mechanized one if the Eldar player didn't take enough scatter lasers or shuriken cannons.

 

The best option is to have a couple of rocket launchers on the board. Eldar really fear the rocket launcher because the frag will also tend to remove a lot of infantry after the transport's been popped. Baals are also very good with their assault cannons if you can get in range. I really don't think assault squads are good against mechanized Eldar. The vehicles are faster than guys in jump packs and the various fields minimize damage from shooting.

 

I honestly think you should just suck it up and buy 3-4 rocket launchers. Use the Baals if you really fear buying some guys that aren't moving all the time. However, since assault cannons aren't plentiful in the Blood Angels list, I think rocket launchers are the best option. See the recent devastator thread to see some players who have had success with them.

[SamaNagol]

However, since assault cannons aren't plentiful in the Blood Angels list

 

*raises eyebrow*

[Rybnick]

However, since assault cannons aren't plentiful in the Blood Angels list

I was questioning this myself, I'd say we have plenty of options to take Asscans along.

[lorider2]

I quote Blood Angels internet guru jawaballs when I say "Mech Eldar is tough to beat in a objective mission. They don't usually win, but they almost never lose." I find its very true. I had my ONLY non-win with the new codex last weekend when I tied a mechdar player who had 1 stinking Avenger on a objective. I couldn't concentrate on it because I had EVERY single gun in the army trying to destroy an empty Serpent contesting my objective (my last unit, good old MM bikes got it in the rear). Its difficult to beat, and takes more than picking the right list. My best recommendation is take a large mix of units and try to spread them out to expose rear armor and in general give the tricky space elves no place to hide. You expose yourself to being overwhelmed at one any point, but with our speed you should be able to counter this issue.

[The Yncarne]

However, since assault cannons aren't plentiful in the Blood Angels list

 

*raises eyebrow*

I was thinking in a jump heavy list. I guess one can run dreads in such a list, but I think of jump heavy as meaning jump packs, not drop pods. Running Baals means you're probably not running as many speeders.

[Zid]

A few speeders + massed jump pack guys = win. He can't run fast enough without TBing, and you can get him with meltas. BA are the quickest of the SM chapters, so I always take full advantage of what that offers

[Drachnon]

If you want to you can have as much assault cannons as you can wish for. We can put them on razorbacks so even troop choices can have assault cannons. In fast attack we can choose from landspeeders and baal preds. In heavy support we can choose between dreadnoughts and storm ravens.

And for elites we have terminator squads with land raiders. And if you want your honour guard can take a transport with assault cannon as well.

 

So with every choice in our list having assault cannon possibilities I think we can't really complain.

 

But too the topic at hand, I don't play much against eldar but wouldn't trying to field a horde of units work, with a few priests added to the mix. From the few eldar armies I played against they were good at killing small elite units but a full tactical squad overpowered them easily.

[Grey Mage]

If you want to you can have as much assault cannons as you can wish for. We can put them on razorbacks so even troop choices can have assault cannons. In fast attack we can choose from landspeeders and baal preds. In heavy support we can choose between dreadnoughts and storm ravens.

And for elites we have terminator squads with land raiders. And if you want your honour guard can take a transport with assault cannon as well.

 

So with every choice in our list having assault cannon possibilities I think we can't really complain.

 

But too the topic at hand, I don't play much against eldar but wouldn't trying to field a horde of units work, with a few priests added to the mix. From the few eldar armies I played against they were good at killing small elite units but a full tactical squad overpowered them easily.

No offense, but you had horrible opponents.

 

Seriously, Eldar are the Marines natural predator- a tactical squad can be wiped in a single turn by accurate dark reaper fire power or the sheer number of shots from a bladestorm.

 

FNP? Meet Starcannons. Thank Sanguinius that they have horrible ballistic skill.

 

Frankly your jump troops are a great option- wave serpents cant take a hit in CC from a powerfist or a meltabomb. The problem then is you have an exposed unit thats right next to a unit that can probly drop them down to combat ineffective status.

 

So what I truely reccommend is combat squading a devastator squad full of lascannons, and hitting the troops with a whirlwind, or heck bring two- make him afraid to bring his troops out of their transports.

 

For the fire prisms, volume of fire is the only way to go. Holofields are a nasty peice of equipment and if your opponent doesnt throw them on hes an idiot- Heck, even fielding two of them at 500pts you can fit them both with holofields.