Devastator loadout question..

[tahrikmili]

I currently have 2 Devastator squads in my army list.

 

1 with 3 MLs (5 man) and 1 with 2 PCs (5 man).

 

So my questions basically are:

 

1. Are 2 PCs enough to get the job done? I know 4 are overkill, but are 2 underwhelming?

2. I think 3 MLs is definitely the right number and 2 is too few. But still, should I go for a 10 man Devastator Squad and Combat Squad them? The way it currently is I can deploy them seperately and use a 3rd ML but the other way around I'll be saving points so I can't really decide.

[Giga]

Devastators aren't worth it.

 

If you really want a unit with two plasmacannons, take a 5 men sternguard unit with 2 plasmacannons and give them a razorback, and you got a nice firebase.

 

Here are a few units that are also way better then devastators (and cheaper):

 

Predators with autocannon turret & lascannon sponsors

Predators with autocannon turret & heavy bolter sponsors

Speeders with heavy bolter and typhoon missile launcher

Tactical squads with ultracheap plasma cannon

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

Giga is correct BUT devastators ARE NOT useless. In 3-4 games recently I took a dev squad with 2 PC's and they killed 2 7-8 man plague marine squads outright by turn 2. along with things like terminators and reg marines.

 

it's very useful and intimidating, dont forget to position them on the very top floor of a ruin in your deployment. mine were basically ignored every game. that's their x factor their positioning. put them deep enough in your deployment that they cant get focus fired, but leave them in range

 

people sorely underestimate the power of a 5 man x2PC dev squad, I was told by many people that no matter what i do NEVER EVER remove my plasma cannon dev squad from my lists.

 

but being a mech whore I since have in favor of 3 combi preds.

 

 

 

summary do they work? are they worth it? when they perform like the above they're well worth it

[Giga]

people sorely underestimate the power of a 5 man x2PC dev squad, I was told by many people that no matter what i do NEVER EVER remove my plasma cannon dev squad from my lists.

5 devastator marines with 2x plasmacannon and razorback = 180 pts

 

5 sternguard veterans with 2x plasmacannon and razorback = 185 pts

 

Devastators get a signum (not very useful with blast weapons), and take up a heavy support slot.

 

Sternguard get better leadership, more attacks, better bolters (with a 30" range ammunition), and they take up an elites slot. They can also be scoring if you run Pedro.

 

Unless you really need those elites slots, sternguard are an invariably better option then devastators.

 

I rest my case.

[tahrikmili]

Devastators aren't worth it.

 

If you really want a unit with two plasmacannons, take a 5 men sternguard unit with 2 plasmacannons and give them a razorback, and you got a nice firebase.

 

Here are a few units that are also way better then devastators (and cheaper):

 

Predators with autocannon turret & lascannon sponsors

Predators with autocannon turret & heavy bolter sponsors

Speeders with heavy bolter and typhoon missile launcher

Tactical squads with ultracheap plasma cannon

 

A 5 man Dev squad with 2 PCs costs me 120 pts. You can buy NONE of the above for that price.

 

Sternguard are more expensive and take Elite slots, which are already very crowded.

Tacticals need to be 10 strong to take a PC in which case they are easily over 200pts.

Predators are an option (especially for a BA player like me, I'd so happily take an overcharged one) but the problem is that they will get a ton of more attention than a squad of Devastators with 2 PCs.

 

I really disagree that the Devs are useless. But that is not the question here - Would you add a 3rd PC to this squad or stick with just 2?

[Giga]

A 5 man Dev squad with 2 PCs costs me 120 pts. You can buy NONE of the above for that price.

Ah, my bad. We discuss vanilla tactics here for the most part, so I assumed you were talking vanilla devastators. Our plasmacannons cost considerably more.

 

Well, in that case the dev squad is indeed the cost-efficient if you want plasma cannons. :sick:

 

(I myself would probably prefer a fast combipredator or a rifleman dreadnought instead, though)

[Koremu]

It's really quite upsetting how both of the CC-oriented Power Armour Codicies have cheaper and better Devastator equivalents than we do. Unless you can convince your regular opponents to let you run Devastator Squads with Sternguard or Blood Angel weapon costs, it's pointless to even bether.

 

If you are a Blood Angel, then rejoice! You have better CC and better shooting and better mobility than vanilla marines. You could almost imagine Mat Ward plays your Chapter.

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

to answer THE question.

 

2 plas canns are enough, if you want to go 3 in a squad it almost guarantees they're going to kill whatever outright

 

however x3 PCs will draw a ton more fire than just that unassuming 2 :)

[Chengar Qordath]

Devastators aren't worth it.

 

If you really want a unit with two plasmacannons, take a 5 men sternguard unit with 2 plasmacannons and give them a razorback, and you got a nice firebase.

 

Here are a few units that are also way better then devastators (and cheaper):

 

Predators with autocannon turret & lascannon sponsors

Predators with autocannon turret & heavy bolter sponsors

Speeders with heavy bolter and typhoon missile launcher

Tactical squads with ultracheap plasma cannon

 

A 5 man Dev squad with 2 PCs costs me 120 pts. You can buy NONE of the above for that price.

A combi-predator is the same price as your devastator squad, while a dakka-predator is cheaper. A lone landspeeder with HB and TML is also cheaper than your devastators, though it bears mentioning that most people buy more than one of those.

[Brother_Fatiswon]

Devastators aren't worth it.

 

If you really want a unit with two plasmacannons, take a 5 men sternguard unit with 2 plasmacannons and give them a razorback, and you got a nice firebase.

 

Here are a few units that are also way better then devastators (and cheaper):

 

Predators with autocannon turret & lascannon sponsors

Predators with autocannon turret & heavy bolter sponsors

Speeders with heavy bolter and typhoon missile launcher

Tactical squads with ultracheap plasma cannon

 

A 5 man Dev squad with 2 PCs costs me 120 pts. You can buy NONE of the above for that price.

 

Sternguard are more expensive and take Elite slots, which are already very crowded.

Tacticals need to be 10 strong to take a PC in which case they are easily over 200pts.

Predators are an option (especially for a BA player like me, I'd so happily take an overcharged one) but the problem is that they will get a ton of more attention than a squad of Devastators with 2 PCs.

 

I really disagree that the Devs are useless. But that is not the question here - Would you add a 3rd PC to this squad or stick with just 2?

 

.02 IMO: add the 3rd, or take a 2nd deva, with a single PC and have them support each other(fire at the same targets) another opition, i seen on this topic, but not this time, yet, is the full 10man, x2 HB x2 PC

or, if you don't have any other HS, you could run x3 5man single PC Dev squads... my .02

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

i've run the full 10 man devs w/ x2HB's and x2PC's not too great i actually ended up swapping out the HB's for ML's so they can deal with AV and arent just stuck sitting when no target are in LoS

[pueriexdeus]

I also run a 2xHB/2xPC 10 man Dev Sqd. It always has worked great for me.

 

Of course target selection is important, I field it specifically against Orks and Nids, and you cant deny the AP2 against PA/TDA.

[captain sox]

I often run 2 (yes 2) 10 man Plasma Cannon Dev Squads with 4 Plasma Cannons each!

 

With all the melta you see these days, vehicles don't seem to last too long. Set them up to make a 'zone of plasma death' and watch the fun.

 

If need be, you can move one squad while the other fires.

 

8 Plasma Cannon shots is a thing of beauty!

[tahrikmili]

I often run 2 (yes 2) 10 man Plasma Cannon Dev Squads with 4 Plasma Cannons each!

 

With all the melta you see these days, vehicles don't seem to last too long. Set them up to make a 'zone of plasma death' and watch the fun.

 

If need be, you can move one squad while the other fires.

 

8 Plasma Cannon shots is a thing of beauty!

 

Nice. :D But I don't have the points. I have 2 Dev squads of 5 man each, 2 PCs in one, 3 MLs in the other. I think it'll be enough blast templates to go around :P

[Giga]

It's really quite upsetting how both of the CC-oriented Power Armour Codicies have cheaper and better Devastator equivalents than we do.

Well, GW designers are aware they've screwed up when they assigned prices on dev squad heavy weapons, so now they're fixing the mistakes by giving newer dexes properly priced devs. The next vanilla dex is going to have such cheaper devs, as well.

[Captain Idaho]

It's really quite upsetting how both of the CC-oriented Power Armour Codicies have cheaper and better Devastator equivalents than we do.

Well, GW designers are aware they've screwed up when they assigned prices on dev squad heavy weapons, so now they're fixing the mistakes by giving newer dexes properly priced devs. The next vanilla dex is going to have such cheaper devs, as well.

 

And I might put a squad into my army when they do :yes:

 

Personally I don't like Devastators at their current price. I just can't justify that many points into a unit that is essentially going to be a target and probably going to get charged, yet is immobile if it wants to be effective.

 

Plus they don't operate as well as mechanised units, seeing as they are ideally 6-8 men with 3-4 weapons to be effective, and that breaks synergy a little. Not a big problem normally but if you are paying over the odds for a unit you want it to be as effective as possible in the army they are in.

 

Plenty of other effective weapon platforms that don't have as severe weaknesses and aren't so expensive for what they do.

[Koremu]

It's really quite upsetting how both of the CC-oriented Power Armour Codicies have cheaper and better Devastator equivalents than we do.

Well, GW designers are aware they've screwed up when they assigned prices on dev squad heavy weapons, so now they're fixing the mistakes by giving newer dexes properly priced devs. The next vanilla dex is going to have such cheaper devs, as well.

Oh wow, well knowing that they'll be fixed in five years time makes it all ok then, doesn't it? :lol:

 

This simply highlights the need for a 'living document' approach to 40k. GW should be web publishing corrections to their books, not excusing it with lame fobbing off and promises of alterations in some far off next release.

[Giga]

Oh wow, well knowing that they'll be fixed in five years time makes it all ok then, doesn't it?

I'm not saying it's a good system or that it should make us happy, but the fact of the matter is that GW obviously pays attention to which units are being fielded regularly and which aren't; which units are considered efficient by the playerbase, and which are considered too weak/overpriced for what they do. GW's goal is to sell their figure boxes, so they keep balancing units to make as many units per codex great and thus desirable to customers.

 

An example of this happening successfully is with th/ss terminators. GW notices nobody uses 4++ storm shields. So they improve them to 3++ for the 5th ed vanilla dex and, lo and behold, it makes assault terminator boxes sell like crazy without making them overpowered and thus harming game balance. After months of tournament data and playtesting, they figure out storm shields are fine as 3++, and so now Space Wolves and Blood Angels both get 3++ storm shields, and it's quite obvious the upcoming DA and BT dexes will also have 3++ shields. GW has, quite simply, found the proper power level/points cost for storm shields. Too bad about the current DA, though, they're stuck with old rules until they get their new dex. Oh well, they'll just have to use an alternative.

 

Likewise, with 5th ed vanilla dex, GW notices devastator squads aren't used and dev boxes probably aren't selling well. They do some research and find out devastator weapons are too expensive for what they do. So GW decides to come up with a way to make devastators good, and lo and behold, we get 5th ed Long Fangs and 5th ed BA devastators. It's a safe bet that new DA and BT devastators (or equivalents) will be similarly priced. Vanilla is, sadly, stuck with the current overpriced devs until they get a new dex - oh well, we'll just have to use alternative units for the same role.

 

Unfortunately, units without their own plastic boxes aren't being paid much attention to. Vanguard veterans, generic captains and chapter masters, etc. remain as crappy in codex BA as they were in codex vanilla. Also, boxes that sell extremely well are automatically assumed to be balanced by GW. Hence, tactical terminators and tactical marines both retain their crappiness with little or no changes whatsoever.

This simply highlights the need for a 'living document' approach to 40k. GW should be web publishing corrections to their books, not excusing it with lame fobbing off and promises of alterations in some far off next release.

No. If codexes were "living documents" they'd become extremely hard to follow and the game would be harder to play for most of us. We'd have to keep ourselves updated constantly with the newest rules, and really, who wants to learn new rules for an army every few months? Especially if the said army is an army that isn't very popular, but you still face it from time to time? It'd result in a lot of rules disputes, a constant need for new FAQs and erratas, and general annoyance.

 

You're basically asking for a patching system, like what they do with computer games. Computer games can get away with it because you don't need to spend the time reading rulebooks before you can enjoy yourself - the changes made in computer game patches don't mean jack to most players who play them. In tabletop games, where players themselves control the game system, such changes just can't be ignored for the sake of casual fun.

[Grey Mage]

people sorely underestimate the power of a 5 man x2PC dev squad, I was told by many people that no matter what i do NEVER EVER remove my plasma cannon dev squad from my lists.

5 devastator marines with 2x plasmacannon and razorback = 180 pts

 

5 sternguard veterans with 2x plasmacannon and razorback = 185 pts

 

Devastators get a signum (not very useful with blast weapons), and take up a heavy support slot.

 

Sternguard get better leadership, more attacks, better bolters (with a 30" range ammunition), and they take up an elites slot. They can also be scoring if you run Pedro.

 

Unless you really need those elites slots, sternguard are an invariably better option then devastators.

 

I rest my case.

Or if you want 4 heavy weapons, wich stern cant do, especially 10 man combat squading for two targets.

[Bay]

Devastators do have their uses! I just rarely take them unless I'm facing some kind of dug in gun line.

 

Besides that I usually run predators/vindicators for my Vanilla lists.

 

When I do utilized devastators I take 2 Missile launchers and 2 Plasma Cannons, stick them into cover with an tech-marines so he can bolster the defenses. This gives the expensive squad a little

 

more protection and I find it to be an very robust combo being able to survive several turns of incoming fire directly and indirectly.

 

Now if it was SW long fangs I would never leave home with out them, but that is OT.

 

Try them out! I would advice tho to take them in a 1500+ list. They are extremely pricey in points, unfortunately. Best of Luck!

[chapter master 454]

Personally since my main gunline army takes techmarines I could field 2 cheap disposable plasma cannons for 85 points. I will say though by accident I did once field 4 plasma cannon servitors in one squad (I forgot to read the allotment properly) and I will say this: the result was devastating. If you don't annilate everything you are aiming at with everything around it (the squad totaled a rhino, destroyed a immolators MM and wiped out a sister repentia squad with one salvo. Lucky but it does prove the devastion they can do!).

 

In short 2 are enough, as for sterns...hmmm I would be pushed. I personally take 2 MotF and a techmarine so I have access to 3 chances to have 2 plasma cannons (so I can total 6) for 85 points each. However they do suffer mindlock but consider the fact they are 100 points cheaper than a sternguard squad I would willing to say servitors are the biggest bargain for plasma cannons. (I know I am cutting out the MotF and techmarine which equal the points value if it's the MotF but look at this way: losing sternguard is painful, losing servitors you brought alot for cheap fire support isn't. best bit: while they can mindlock, you'll on average get 6 shots out of the squad in 3 2 shot salvos which is enough to take down servitors.

 

As for devastators, if you got nothing better to put into your heavy support and your elites are full (or you are not rich enough to buy sternguard models :P) then yea, devastators are good.

 

Oh and even if you just take one plasma cannon: it will be enough to scare seven shades of emperors royal rubbish out of your opponents terminators or whatever else they have that love their 2+ save (I'm looking at you sanguinary guard!)

[DerekLee688]

Who uses pure SG models to represent Sternguard? I use Tac marines with extra gold trim. Black reach tac's FTW.

 

If I play in a higher points game I'll consider 5xSG in a Razor and 10xdevs in a Rhino that will combat squad upon disembarking. Three groups of two PC's for the points seem devestating.

[pattison]

Maybe it's already mentioned, but heavy weapons in tactical squads are dirt cheap and by having them in combat squads you also have the chance to perch those heavies up on a balcony with lovely sight. I do take plasma cannons, my favourite heavy weapon on infantry, and I find that if you have enough support units 2 of them can do the job.