a Blasphemous idea!

[Marshal van Trapp]

ok, so some buddies of mine were sitting around the other day at my local hobby store and they were talking about the Horus Heresy novels, they said they were all great until you got to fulgrim (where he said he picked a page and highlighted how many times perfect appeared on it, something like 26 on one page), then he said wouldn't it be interesting if there were some kind of space marine community, like they went against their teachings and formed some kind of a society and began mating, while i said this would be highly impossible (seeing that space marines lack the ability to reproduce) he responded with something that got me thinking:

What if some of the chapter of Space Marines genes were not synced exactly right and they mutated into females?

 

i thought about it for a while and then realized there is a very viable scientific way that it could be explained: some species on our world do this already, when presented with a society lacking of females, males have been known to rework their genes to make themselves female to continue along with their species so it doesn't die off.

now i realize that the species that do this are egg laying species (frogs and birds mostly) i thought it would be an interesting fluff and modeling opportunity, think about it, female and children space marines, while it know it would be all but impossible it would be a very flavorful army

 

it could start out as just a random case of mutation that the chapter destroys but then more and more of them become female, and they begin to see it as more of a gift than a curse, not having to rely on removing the gene-seed of their fallen brothers to repopulate their chapter, obviously the inquisition would call them mutants and traitors and have them banished for heresy and hunted down, but they'd still find themselves loyal to the emperor (much like any renegade chapter who isn't really chaotic)

 

just some ideas i had swimming around in my head thought i'd share with you guys, this isn't meant as a way to make a female space marine possible, so no flame wars, its simply a flavorful character-filled idea for a chapter

[Nickles 138 SUP]

It's called prison. :D

 

Or you could be thinking of a Slaanesh Traitor Legion.

 

Most that go to Slaanesh are more connected to their feminine side. :wub:

[Aqui]

I've been thinking about this for a long time, as I was going to do an article based on what I say below, as penance for not completing the Painting Challenge a while ago. And may do so, as long as the Mods etc are okay with it (I know it's a very contentious subject, hence the reticence...) SO :D

 

There's only one viable way of making Female Space Marines, and there is a precident on the B+C already. Not, Gene therapy, Not Chaos Intervention....no, I speak of Alternate realities.

 

Think about it, if it's possible for Dorn to end up the Arch Traitor using this method, then the unthinkable is possible. All one needs is lateral thinking. Instead of there being an Emperor, there was an Empress perhaps. When you establish this, the "Women can't become Marine's because you need Male Chromsomes etc" is null and void.

 

Don't get me wrong - I love The Dornian Heresy, but now that it is being unfolded, it has kinda paved the way for other versions. ;)

 

The only thing now is to think of viable names for the Primarchs.... or should that perhaps be Matriarchs?

 

:wub:

[RagingGriffon]

^^^^^

This

 

Female Space Marines cannot exist in the standard canon.

 

I don't think even Slaanesh has crossed that line... he might have added a few body parts, but they are still male Space Marines.

[Aqui]

^^^^^

This

 

Female Space Marines cannot exist in the standard canon.

 

I don't think even Slaanesh has crossed that line... he might have added a few body parts, but they are still male Space Marines.

 

As is said in my sig, besides that the only other thing she (Slaanesh, I mean as I prefer the Eldar reference "She who thirsts" :D ) draws the line at, is Leetspeak :wub:

[Brother Daeger Helsir]

At the OP: Look mate, I'm a fan and supporter of female space marines as a concept, but it needs to be done well. Geneseed spontaneously mutating to turn male space marines into pretty female space marines is utterly ridiculous, whether you look at it from a literary/storytelling perspective or a scientific/realistic one. Fish can gender-swap, but space marines are mammals, not fish. :/

 

There are ways to do female marines. This is not one of them. Sorry.

 

I would suggest finding some other concept.

[ChaplainMathreyn]

I mean, I've never been struck by a good reason 'Why'... I mean... Why? ... It's like adding that your Chapter uses some strange Bolter pattern... Or, why they all have a third eye in the back of their head. Why? To me, they'll just be "Marines with bewbs!"... Another gimmick, with no real flavoring.

 

Furthermore, it flies in the face of What the Marines are... A Fraternity... A warrior's lodge... No Girls Allowed, sort of thing. ;)

 

And frankly, the Sororitas are pretty. freaking. Awesome... Sometimes, I'm more scared of Their zealotry than the Black Templars... :D

 

Honestly, I think Alot is possible in this Galaxy... I mean, there's a hole in the space-time continuum where normal space meets ":D!?" space... I mean really... :D-space. The better question is, though, Why? And how realisticly plausible would it be in the Imperium of Man... Not a place known for its careing, its kindness, its tolerance, its niceness, or its liveability... Where, you mess up, or become "different" or out-of-line, you're liable to Die... As in cease to exist...

 

Just sayin'...

[Marshal van Trapp]

i must reiterate, this is not simply an idea to justify female space marines, nor has it even been! take the female space marines out of the equation if it bothers you all so much, what if SM's found a small world, settled down with some regular females and started breeding, my idea is a SPACE MARINE SOCIETY not a stab at explaining why my SM are female...

 

i take great offense in that is all you think i'm trying to accomplish...

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Space Marines don't breed. I'm pretty sure the game designers, in their however many years of doing nothing but 40k, have thought about this topic and decided not to set any fluff precedent for it whatsoever.

 

So it's safe to assume that idea wouldn't work.

[Brother Daeger Helsir]

That was what your initial post seemed to imply, don't get your tail in a knot.

 

Now, as for a space marine society... Space marines being closely affiliated and interwoven with a society is no uncommon thing; after all, the Ultramarines themselves are one of the best examples thereof, featuring extremely heavily in the daily life of Ultramar. However, a true space marine "society" as you put it is in effect impossible, as the process of turning a man into a space marine makes him at the very least sterile, and possibly completely impotent/sans libido.

 

However... in the end, it comes down to how well they're done, really. One of my favorite chapters is the Fighting Tigers of Veda, whose author is certainly more than willing to bend the rules of the universe to their limits in the name of a cool concept and a cool story. The Fighting Tigers are the closest thing I've ever seen or heard of to this space marine society you're talking about. However, I have also seen extremely good and fluff-sound concepts go down in flames because of poor writing and implementation.

 

So, let's see what you've got. But just keep in mind that the concepts you are playing with set you at a very severe handicap, and therefore if your efforts prove insufficient you'll have no right to whine about things being made too difficult.

[hazardousZERO]

"when presented with a society lacking of females, males have been known to rework their genes to make themselves female to continue along with their species so it doesn't die off"

 

Smurfs come to mind and I'm not talking about the ultramarine's so don't try and get offended Calgar. :)

[RagingGriffon]

Didn't old fluff of White Scars say they had women and they bred children... or am I way off the mark here?

[coolyo294]

I think it sounds like a cool idea.

[Brother Daeger Helsir]

Didn't old fluff of White Scars say they had women and they bred children... or am I way off the mark here?

 

Old fluff also had a half-eldar Librarian who had become a major player in the Adeptus Terra as well as serving in both the Dark Angels and Ultramarines chapters. Obviously things have changed a little since then. ;)

[Midgard]

"Rynn's World" novel makes a reference to one of the past Crimson Fists Chapter Masters initiating a eugenics program by taking the best of the failed aspirants and initiating a breeding program. The idea was to create a pool of better-than-average aspirants, but, as the novel states it later, the program did not succeed, and by the time of Cantor's ascension, it was viewed as controversial at best.

 

That is, this is based off relatively recent fluff - I am aware that in the older fluff things were quite different.

[Fire Lord Captain]

when presented with a society lacking of females, males have been known to rework their genes to make themselves female to continue along with their species so it doesn't die off.

now i realize that the species that do this are egg laying species (frogs and birds mostly) i thought it would be an interesting fluff and modeling opportunity, think about it, female and children space marines, while it know it would be all but impossible it would be a very flavorful army

 

But wouldn't it mean that they have to have sex with their previous battle brothers?? And one of the marines would have to..... Ewww noooo.

[RagingGriffon]

"Rynn's World" novel makes a reference to one of the past Crimson Fists Chapter Masters initiating a eugenics program by taking the best of the failed aspirants and initiating a breeding program. The idea was to create a pool of better-than-average aspirants, but, as the novel states it later, the program did not succeed, and by the time of Cantor's ascension, it was viewed as controversial at best.

 

That is, this is based off relatively recent fluff - I am aware that in the older fluff things were quite different.

 

You know, I was thinking of an idea like that myself (taking notes on a Loyalist Chapter at the moment). Good to know a precedence has been set :)

 

Also, remember, OP, Marines are always under the influence of large hormonal/medicine regimine.

[ChaplainMathreyn]

Could you Imagine... Marine Babies... !? Holy crap... Thats one heck of a pregnancy!?... And birth!? Bah!

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Could you Imagine... Marine Babies... !? Holy crap... Thats one heck of a pregnancy!?... And birth!? Bah!

I am tempted to put that in my sig. Very tempted.

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac287/Brother-ChaplainGaius/HeresyStamp.png