DC Math hammer versus mounted Wolf Lord & TWC

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

So I have been playing some games versus Space Wolves and one of the typical builds I see is as follows:

 

Wolf Lord/Thunderwolf mount, stormshield, power fist, Saga of the Bear

3x Thunderwolf/stormshields, power fist

 

Here is how I am currently running my Death Company (mounted in a Stormraven with a DC dreadnaught/Blood Talons & heavy flamer):

 

Lemartes + 5x DC (jump packs)/3x power sword, power fist & infernus pistol

 

I am typically able to charge the Wolf Lord and the Thunderwolves. The problem is the Wolf Lord is able to survive the initial blows then his power fist guts the squad. Sometimes the dreadnaught can finish off the Wolf Lord in the next turn of assault but not always, then the Wolf Lord is free to rampage. Note that I also use the Sanguinor so I can subtract one wound from the Wolf Lord at the start of the game.

 

I have been working on the math hammer and the following seems to be the best way to allocate attacks:

 

Lemartes - 4A, 4 hit & 3W (swings into Wolf Lord)

DC 1st step, swords - 16A, 14 hit & 11W (swings into TWC)

DC 2nd step, power fist - 3A, 3 hit & 3W (swings into Wolf Lord... Too late as this point as the Wolf Lord can strike back with his power fist as well)

 

Total Wounds = 17

Failed 3++ = 6

 

DC dread - 5A, 4 hit & 4W

Total Failed 3++ = 7

 

So I'm always shy by one wound. My army doesn't have any ranged shooting except for the gunship and often it will have to move flat-out to deliver the big payload so the only shooting is coming from the DC & DC dread, which is not always enough to score that last elusive wound. Any thoughts on how to better maximize the potential combat are appreciated!

 

0b :P

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I have to say, shooting is good. Deathstar v Deathstar is not clever tactics ~ it's just pure macho wrestling! :D

Get some guns to thin him out before it happens.

 

MM, PC, LC, ML are all silly for that job - low rate of fire and not getting insta-kills

Auto and Assault cannons are better, and HB are okay.

Because TWC are on 60mm bases, a Vindicator shell is reasonably accurate.

 

He could make his wound allocation much tougher to beat with more diverse models ;)

 

When a Deathstar comes my way, I use as much of my army against it as I possibly can, to kill it in as few turns as possible.

 

+++

 

You're green blow fly?! it was in your sig and I never noticed it. :P

Maybe you were buzzing right under my nose? :lol:

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Actually I'm BBF now ! ;)

 

Anyways my style of play eschews the use of heavy mech. I am running a an all jump army except for one dread and a Stormraven, this is not going to change much at all in this aspect. I'm thinking I'll have to remember to shoot with all the pistols. one shot from the Stormraven and the heavy flamer/meltagun from the dread. I realize now I've been forgetting to do that. I could make a big difference. I'll post up my current army list if you'd like to see it as a reference.

 

0b ;)

[vahouth]

Note that I also use the Sanguinor so I can subtract one wound from the Wolf Lord at the start of the game.

 

Sorry mate, but I think that's Dante.

Sanguinor is usefull for the +1A bubble and the rerolls on the TWL though.

 

If you are shy by one wound, you could fit a one or two IPs on the DC maybe...

Doesn't the Storm Raven have a swing at them also?

 

And one last thing,

is the TWL wearing a power armor or a runic armor?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I meant to say Dante as I run him in the army as well. The Wolf Lord has runic armor. I am thinking the best thing to do is put more attacks on the Wolf Lord, should need 6 wounds to finish him off before he can swing back.

 

0b :wallbash:

[Murphestus]

Right.

 

You should position more DC on him. I'd go so far as to say you need a Land Raider and more DC instead of Jump packs and a storm raven. Might give you some extra points for more melta pistols.

 

That unit you described is 725+ points.

 

For that amount of points you could have 9+ DC w/ 2 power fists 4 power weapons 3 infurnus pistols, a Chaplain with a fist, a LR redeemer and maybe Lib in the HQ slot with the str 10 power.

 

So then you've got an ass pile more attacks rolling in 3 power fists, a Lib with 4+ str 10 attacks that re roll misses and then an ass pile of Re/Re rolling DC dudes.

 

PLUS you've got the firepower and resiliency of the land raider redeemer.

[vahouth]

For that amount of points you could have 9+ DC w/ 2 power fists 4 power weapons 3 infurnus pistols, a Chaplain with a fist, a LR redeemer and maybe Lib in the HQ slot with the str 10 power.

 

I think that for the DC to have 3 infernus pistols, they should number 15 or more.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The landraider doesn't fit my style as I am running a jump army. My only vehicle is a Stormraven. It is a lot of points but they can kill a lot of things plus the dread and DC can split off if needed from each other to assault different units.

 

0b :wallbash:

[Murphestus]

You can gear out a 5 man HG w/ 2 fists, a chap, a lib, the chapter banner, 2 MG and 4 storm shields for much less than 725 points. That includes their jump packs.

 

All that is for just over 625 pnts.

 

5 PW attacks from the Chap, re-rolling misses.

5 attacks (+d3 if you take that power and yes the above pnt total include the epis) at str 10 from the lib, re-rolling misses (this guy goes on the TW regular guys)

8 str 9 power fist attacks, re-rolling misses.

8 regular attacks re-rolling misses on the charge.

 

With all the storm shields, FNP and the invil saves you've got a hammer and an anvil.

 

And you're fearless!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

That does sound good. :unsure:

 

0b :D

[SamaNagol]

3 vindicators cost 450pts.

 

You're welcome.

[tahrikmili]

3 vindicators cost 450pts.

 

You're welcome.

 

I see your 3 Vindicators and raise you 3 Devastator Squads with 3 Plasmacannons each for a cost of 405 pts that will very likely wipe out those TWC in one round without fear of being taken out by lucky Turn 1 Lascannon hits.

 

In Devastators I trust.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

3 dev squads is not balanced. Vindis are great but don't fit with this army.

 

0b ;)

[SamaNagol]

Spending half your army cost on Death Company in a Stormraven is balanced? *raises eyebrow*

[tahrikmili]

3 dev squads is not balanced. Vindis are great but don't fit with this army.

 

0b ;)

 

I would actually field all three if I had enough Plasma Cannons.. As is, they are spread around my Tactical Squads :P There's something magical about 3 S7 AP2 Blast templates landing on top of an expensive unit. By a measly 135pt Devastator squad.

[Zealadin]

Spending half your army cost on Death Company in a Stormraven is balanced? *raises eyebrow*

 

Well seeing as how a Stormraven is actually 3 units (possibly 4) crammed into one, its not exactly the same.

And compared to the other suggestions as least it fits the fluff.

I'm interested to hear your list actually Black Orange I'm trying to get mine ironed out and its hard to find people using a similar concept with all the razor'd cheese flying around.

[tahrikmili]

Spending half your army cost on Death Company in a Stormraven is balanced? *raises eyebrow*

 

Well seeing as how a Stormraven is actually 3 units (possibly 4) crammed into one, its not exactly the same.

And compared to the other suggestions as least it fits the fluff.

I'm interested to hear your list actually Black Orange I'm trying to get mine ironed out and its hard to find people using a similar concept with all the razor'd cheese flying around.

 

Mine is an unorthodox infantry heavy Earth army with lots of Tacticals and Devastators, lots of Heavy weapons and a lot of Plasmaguns..

 

2,000 pts.

 

HQ 1 Librarian

HQ 5 Honor Guard (SN, PF, PW, Mg, Fl, Razor)

 

El 5 Terminator Squad (HF)

El 6 Sternguard Vets (2xPg, 4xC-P, Razor)

El 1 Sanguinary Priest

 

HS 5 Devastator Squad (3xML)

HS 1 Dreadnought (AC, EA) [Considering switching for a Devastator Squad with 3 Plasma Cannons, if I can find the cannons for cheap]

 

Tr 10 Tactical Squad (PF, Pg, MM)

Tr 10 Tactical Squad (PF, Mg, PC)

Tr 10 Tactical Squad (PF, Mg, PC)

Tr 10 Death Company (PF, 2xPW, 8xBolter, Drop Pod)

[SamaNagol]

Put the DC dread in B2B with the Wolf Lord. Don't give it Talons. Good game.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Put the DC dread in B2B with the Wolf Lord. Don't give it Talons. Good game.

 

if you noticed. The Lord has Saga of the Bear and is Immune to Instant Death.

[SamaNagol]

So he does. That's ok. Absolutely butcher the rest of entire unit then. And only put the Dreadnought in B2B with him. And then run him off the board when he fails his Ld test on like -6

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Taking armour 12 Vs. Str 10 attacks doesnt seem like a great idea to me but yeah I suppose it works.

 

The Easiest Way to do this is to figure out what you need to deal with the unit. 4+ to hit with Rerolls, 4+ to wound with rerolls, 3+ Save. Just need to do 6 wounds.

3/4 hit, 3/4 wound, 1/3 get through. 9/48 simplifies to 3/16 wounds. 4 Death Company will result in 3 wounds. You're looking for about 8 Death company just to deal with the thunderwolves. Then more additionally to end the lord. Its not a great match up. Death Company just arent as solid as ThunderWolf Cav.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Spending half your army cost on Death Company in a Stormraven is balanced? *raises eyebrow*

 

Well seeing as how a Stormraven is actually 3 units (possibly 4) crammed into one, its not exactly the same.

And compared to the other suggestions as least it fits the fluff.

I'm interested to hear your list actually Black Orange I'm trying to get mine ironed out and its hard to find people using a similar concept with all the razor'd cheese flying around.

 

^^ This.

 

:)

 

Here is the list:

 

Sanguinor

Dante

 

2x Sanguinary Priest/jump pack, power sword & melta pistol

Chaplain/jump pack & melta pistol

 

DC dread/Blood Talons, heavy flamer

5x DC (jump packs) + Lemartes/3x power sword, power fist & melta pistol

7x assault Marine (jump pack)/thunderhammer & stormshield, melta gun

7x assault Marine (jump pack)/thunderhammer & stormshield, melta gun

 

Stormraven/extra armor, TL MM, TL LC

 

 

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. It is all good.

 

0b :D

[Sanguinarian]

Upgrade the Chaplain to Lemartes and say "Bye Bye" to King Thunder Wolf!!! :lol:

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I am using Lemartes. He's a beast for sure !!

 

0b <_<

[Sanguinarian]

DUHHH!!!! I only saw a plain Chaplain on the list. <_< So, when his berzerk goes off it doesn't take him OTT?

A coordinated assault WITH the DC Dread with his extra attacks from the BTs don't do it? If not, then allocate more attacks on him in the 1st Round and then knock out the lesser of 2 evils in subsequent rounds.