13th Company

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

Forgive me brothers for uttering this slight heresy but am I the only one that this makes sense to?

 

The units of the chaos codex are lacking in many of the wargear and options available in the current Space Marine/Wolf codex (which I think represents that they are ancient beings fighting with ancient wargear) and so logically the 13th who have fought in the Eye for 10 millenia (or more since time flows differantly in the Eye) would to. Of course certain things woulden't be used daemon princes and other daemons, marks and icons of the gods, plague, noise or rubric marines, I think berserkers could still work though?, obliterators and defilers among them.

 

But other units could work. The only differance between a Wolf Lord and a Chaos Lord stats wise is A4 vs A3 (and that Wolf Lords are the favored sons of Russ who earn glories like kids eat candy), a sorcerer could be a rune priest, a daemon weapon could be a pre-heresy blade created using technology long lost to the Imperium, possessed could be Wulfen and of course the other 3 Elite choices act as their loyal counterparts, chaos marines as Grey Slayers, spawn as Fenrisian wolves and characters (I'm thinking Khârn, Huron, and Abaddon) could be counts as to represent ancient heros.

 

I know that with our new codex it would be fairly simple to make a 13th company ( just MotW where ever you can and Fenrisian Wolves as fast attack ) but I think that the Chaos codex would better represent the ancient nature of the 13th. And before I am accused of being a heretic keep in mind this is an idea to represent our loyal, ancient, honored bretheran who have been hunting the Red Giant (may they find him and stick his eye up his ;): ;) ) at the command of Russ and that I have been a proud warrior of the Fang for going on 10 years whose first step into the 40k universe was matched by a horse sized wolf and blessed by an ancient Wolf Priest named Ulric. Well? Could it work or have I drunk to much mead (if there is even such a thing as too much mead)?

 

Russ be praised

[Stormshrug]

You *could* do this... but I fail to see why you'd want to.

 

Despite the differences that 10,000 years of being stuck in the warp may case, I still think 13th Co. are a lot closer to codex Space Wolves than Chaos Space Marines.

 

If you *really* wanted to capture that 'pre-Heresy' feel, you could just not use Assault Cannons and treat all Storm Bolters as Twin-Linked Bolters (which are worse, like, 99% of the time). Isn't that about the extent of the differences? If you want to be a real stickler, don't use any Vindicators or Whirlwinds, either, and limit yourself to regular Land Raiders (though I'd question whether 13th Co should really have that many tanks anyway, if you're going for pure fluff).

 

Any other wargear that you feel you shouldn't use, you can just not use... you don't really gain any access to any interesting pre-Heresy wargear by playing Chaos, though...

 

-Stormshrug

[hmk17]

Heresy!!!

 

Burn him!!!

 

Stormshrug hits this one on the head.

 

13th Company is more fluff than rules at this point. Truthfully though, using the Chaos Marines codex, you get a watered down concept army that would be weaker than the army it is supposed to be... denying the better parts of the Chaos codex to portray Space Wolves won't help especially when you are forgoing the major strengths of the army.

 

You can make a 13th Company list easily with the SW codex, you just have to build accordingly. You want to use chaos marine models, then by all means just WYSIWYG them and have fun.

[the jeske]

so ... a frost blade cant be an ancient pre heresy blade ??

as others said I dont understand this . without DPs defilers and oblits and cult units you get a realy weak army . Everything you can take [havocks, preds , chosen , csm] SW have too only better/cheaper . Want wulfen why not use big based TWC counts as . you can take wolfs , something the chaos dex wont let you take. 13th had long fangs , the new SW has them too only now they are better , havocks arent even half as good.

[Hotspur]

Well, let me think for a se-- NO!!! :)

 

They're the 13th Co., not a bunch of chaos garbage! I completely agree w/ Stormshrug as well; the 13th is a whole lot closer to C:SW than it is to C:CSM.

 

Or, you could take advantage of the 13th Co. Codex project that's gone on here. Why not take advantage of all the resources you have?

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

Because the 13th company project here isn't legal and even if it was I'm not a fan of it (and as far as using all the recources available to me, the chaos codex is one of them). As far as why I would want to it's no differant than players using the chaos codex to represent pre heresy legions, or players using the DA codex to represent the UM 1st company, or using the IG codex to represent a scout company. And I COULD use the SW codex to do it but to me it just dosen't represent the feal of the 13th, in the end I guess I'm the only one who likes the idea.

 

Thanks for the feedback brothers

 

Russ be praised

[Decoy]

I dunno, mate. Even avoiding the 13th Company project, the regular SW dex pulls the 13th far better than Chaos could, or Vanilla marines, or pretty much any other codex.

 

The concept of a Logan's Heroes army allows for the 2 attacks base for all 13th Company troops, and let's face it, every 13th Company warband needs a leader. The customization of a Logan's Heroes army also allows for more diversity of form, easily representative of the scavenging, survive-at-all-costs part of the 13th Company. Deep Striking, in reality a "Counts As" representing a warp-strike teleport, also fits the 13th Company motif. Finally, the use of Fenrisian Wolves and Lone Wolves only adds to this, as in a Logan's Heroes list, you can take three Lone Wolves (Crazed, suicidal half-Wulfen) and still have an army of Wolf Guard.

 

The Wolf codex fits the 13th Company methodology of war far better than the bland, rather uncharacterful Chaos dex, while retaining the 13th Company's signature abilities and Wolfy style.

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

Deep Striking, in reality a "Counts As" representing a warp-strike teleport, also fits the 13th Company motif.

 

Are you refering to Drop Pods because that dosen't seem very warp-strike teleportish to me :) if you are talking about teleporting SW terminators can't do it.

 

Note: I've dropped the idea I just want to see what your refering to

[Decoy]

Drop-pods. I just modeled mine as "Teleport-Gates", and they work just fine. BOOM! Teleporters. If you model them correctly, you don't even get Modeling for Advantage called on you, and fluffwise, they're damned fluffy. Moreover, they look good if you're good with GS work.

[molsonbeagle]

I'm going to have to go with nah on this as well, though i would like to see how you've modeled certain units.

 

The truth is wolves haven't changed that much, they're still mired in tradition, and while you wouldn't have access to the heroes by name, surely there would be a hero 'pre-heresy' that could adopt the same stats as one of our heroes. In the end, of course, it's your choice, Hell you COULD (i'm not suggesting this btw) have a pure chaos-from-sw army..........COULD...not should...it's your army, you should do what you want, We're not saying its not viable, just that you're kind of shooting yourself in the foot by using chaos instead of wolves, and quite frankly, 13th are still wolves....just....really wolfy.

 

edited for really bad punctuation and grammar...

[Stormshrug]

Yeah, as others have noted, this is in part because the Chaos Space Marines codex is rather short on interesting options. While I have a small Chaos warband to oppose my Wolves for when people visit, I feel that the codex could have retained a lot of the unique options from its previous iteration and still been updated to be a modern codex. The 4th Ed. Dark Angels and Blood Angels codices suffered from the same problem - oversimplification and overstandardization.

 

Thankfully, 5th Ed. Codices have reversed this trend, and the Space Wolves codex is among the best of these at reflecting fluff in game mechanics. While the Chaos codex is fairly strong, I feel that it lacks the same degree of flavor - especially when compared to the previous Chaos codex, which contained far more choices, even if it was also more restrictive in what you could take in any one army. Seeing something between the 3rd and 4th ed Chaos codices would have been nice, I think.

 

-Stormshrug