What is 'naysmiths?'

[Karsus]

Hello all.

 

I found a word that I cannot quite grasp while reading The Thousand Sons (I'm not a native English speaker, so there's a problem)

 

There was a line:

 

But we are still creatures of flesh and inclined to repeat our past mistakes, so I have been careful to surround myself with naysmiths to rein in my arrogance.

 

Just what is that 'naysmiths' means? Is that a typo?

[Donkey Kong]

Perhaps you've heard the term "devil's advocate"? A naysmith is similar to that. If you haven't, put simply, a naysmith is an individual who will disagree with you and make you question why you're doing something instead of a "yes man" who will simply nod their head and agree with whatever their superior is saying.

 

I'm pretty sure this is in reference to Magnus. If you've read earlier books in the Horus Heresy series, you'll notice that Loken played a similar role in Horus' Mournival, which is re reason why he was chosen as a member instead of Iacton Qruze who was the "yes man". You'll notice lots of characters identified or personified as naysmiths will work opposite those identified as yes men:

Death Guard: Garro v. Grulgor and Typhon

Emperor's Children: Tarvitz v. Lucius and Eidolon

Luna Wolves: Loken v. Abaddon and Horus Aximand

[Loken of the 10th]

Ill quote Sindermann from Horus Risisng

 

"In early Terran history, during the dominance of the Sumaturan dynasts, naysmiths were employed by the ruling class. There job was to disagree. To question everything.To consider any argument or policy and find fault with it, or articulate the counter position." pg 68

 

So basically in the case of primarchs they might have a few commanders who they always had counsle from and one or two might argue agianst any policy or decision the primarch might make

[Gold Raven]

Its a cross between a naysayer and a blacksmith.

[Adarul Greystalker]

I wouldn't agree that Abbadon is portrayed as a naysmith in Horus Rising. He was portrayed more as being always spoiling for a fight, always going along with his primarch's plan when it meant that he could get his company into the fighting sooner. But if you remember, during a negotiation period later in the novel, Abbadon and Horus have a terrible argument because Abbadon wanted to fight and Horus preferred to treat.

[Vet Sgt Ezekiel]

Interestingly 'Naysmiths rule" is a guide for calculating time over a given distance in mountaineering. The average speed being 4 km/h and adding 1 minute per 10m height gain etc etc (from the deepest recesses of my memory by the way).

 

 

You may wish to replace the first word of this post with: 'Uninterestingly.....

 

 

I'm sure the Thousands Sons would have employed this rule when calculating the time it would take for them to reach the cave/titan up the artificial mointian in 'A Thousand Sons'.

:huh:

[Wrath of Terra]

Its a cross between a naysayer and a blacksmith.

 

Simple and brilliant! :P

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I wouldn't agree that Abbadon is portrayed as a naysmith in Horus Rising. He was portrayed more as being always spoiling for a fight, always going along with his primarch's plan when it meant that he could get his company into the fighting sooner. But if you remember, during a negotiation period later in the novel, Abbadon and Horus have a terrible argument because Abbadon wanted to fight and Horus preferred to treat.

 

Abbadon is not portrayed as a naysmith. Loken is by Dorn, to provide a voice of reason to Abbadon's bellicose nature, and naysmith is fleshed out by Sindermann.

 

A Smith is someone who fashions something:

Goldsmith

Blacksmith

Wordsmith

 

Monger is someone who trades in something:

Warmonger

Fishmonger

Steel or Iron Monger.

[Culebras]

But we are still creatures of flesh and inclined to repeat our past mistakes, so I have been careful to surround myself with naysmiths to rein in my arrogance.

 

 

The context of the quote is that it comes before the casting of the spell that cursed the majority of the thousand sons but after the events of the novel.

 

-Spoiler alert-

 

 

Much of the novel hammers Magnus as being very proud and this pride led to the annihilation of Prospero. Magnus sacrificed his eye to a demon in order to buy his marines time. Proudly, he thought had cured them but he was wrong. When the Emperor found out, Magnus proudly insisted he was in control of the demon, but this was also wrong. Magnus believed that only he could save Horus, but he failed. He also attempted to teleport to Terra from Prospero, ignoring the danger, and ended up nearly destroying the golden throne. In the final battle, Magnus initially refuses to join the Thousand Sons in battle, abandoning his warriors to the enemy, because he believed this was the only way to save the emperor. Also, he refused to listen to others (including the Emperor) when they warned him that he could be wrong.

 

 

Naysmith is intended to mean someone who exposes flaws in plans or presents an opposing argument. Ahriman does not want to make the same mistake Magnus did that led to Prospero's destruction.