Fearless and Sweaping advance, huh? How does it work?

[HsojVvad]

I was playing Tyranids, my son was playing DA. My genestealers assaulted the DA in CC. They only caused on Wound, while the DA caused 0 wounds. So that would mean the DA lost combat and had to roll -1 on the leadership. They failed so they have to fall back correct? So the Tryanids win the sweaping advance but because of the ATSKNF rule the DA don't get wiped out and take one wound with an armour save and are locked in CC correct?

 

So what I do not understand now, is why do people complain that Fearless nerfs DA terminators. They say they have to take no retreat wounds because Fearless makes them pass automatically. So if DA Terminators did not have Fearless would it make a difference? They still have ATSKNF rule and the same thing happens.

 

What am I misunderstanding? Why is a DA Terminator being Fearless such a bad thing? Why is it a good thing then? I just don't get it.

[EPK]

I actually don't think Fearless Terminators is all that bad (now Fearless Bikers, that's a different story), but terms are survivable as can be, so an extra wound or two can usually be absorbed. But not always and with the size of the squad loosing even one terminator is a big deal.

 

The difference however comes in to play (at least in close combat) when ATSKNF marines DON'T get caught in a sweeping advance - as will sometimes happen. They may then have the possibility to regroup and line up for some more shooting before they charge back in. ATSKNF only comes into play when a sweeping advance actually occurs whereas Fearless (via the same No Retreat rules) come into play when the combat is lost as they do not even have the opportunity to fall back.

[JamesI]

The main difference is a non-fearless unit makes a leadership test. If they pass, no problem. If they fail, risk sweeping advance and extra wounds due to ATSKNF.

 

A fearless unit doesn't get to make the leadership test. They jump right to the extra wounds part.

[Antagonis]

Fearless can be an issues to SOME armies. Fearless is often a horror to Tyranids, with all of their weaker little bugs and the prevalence of poor saving throws. Often times when gaunts assault MEQs, the gaunts will lose combat. Then when the fearless rolls get their saves thrown, the losses from the original combat usually end up doubled. Same with orks and their mob rule antics, squads over 11 are fearless, if there are 11 orks left after my termies take their bite, combat resolution from fearless will do some damage.

 

Fearless can also see you stuck in some combats you REALLY do not want to be in. But again, when applied to termies, the Deathwing can hurt just about anything.

 

Personally I LOVE my fearless termies. No last man standing. No retreating or regrouping to worry about. Fearless makes my termies good to the last drop.

[EPK]

When you are up against a combat specialized power weapon-toting foe, sometimes it would be nice to have an opportunity to fall back and not take extra wounds after you already lost some men to failed 5+ invulnerables and didn't have enough I1 punch left to win combat.

[RayJ]

I find that if you just got beat up by a close combat squad and got to swing back, you're very close to breaking even, and typically losing by 1 or 2. The only way fearless really hurts us is by not being able to shoot the offending unit if we are stuck in.

 

Realistically, deathwing should get wiped by a close combat specialist in a single phase because our squads are so small. The 5+ save blocks about 1/3 of the incoming wounds, but it's generally not very hard for these units to put 8-9 power weapon wounds on us (assuming we are at 5 models).

 

With the drawback listed above being our only downside, I'm gonna mostly agree with Antagonis here. If you drop fearless, you instantly make Wolf Guard Terminators a better choice for the all-terminator (or terminator-heavy) army.

[breng77]

I can go either way on the fearless argument. However, I find it to be good more often than bad.

 

In CC ATSKNF is a little better as you can get away, or pass leadership, however, I find my terminators are usually pretty much dead if they lose combat in the first place.

 

In shooting fearless is much better, as you can sit on an objective and never be worried about being dislodged on an ill timed poor roll.

 

I also disagree with the above poster that fearless is bad for orks, or nids. As a nid player(for my secondary army), I don't want my low leadership units to lose and get sweeping advanced, I would rather lose 5 or 6 gaunts to fearless wounds than the whole squad, this is even more true for orks who have extremely low initiative.

 

Lastly, the fact that you can never be pinned or effected by morale checks is extremely useful.