All Jump Troop Army Viable?

[elrodogg]

After playing a couple of games of 8th edition fantasy, I figured I would ask the experts about some 40k army options I am considering. :)

 

I wanted to know everyone's thoughts on the viability of all jump-troop blood angel armies. Jump packers always were one of my favorite troop types, but I haven't truly played 40k in a while, so don't really know the metagame.

 

Are armies built around jump packs viable? I am not the biggest mech person, I would prefer to put more bodies on the table. Does the metagame allow for that?

 

I am imagining 4 units of 10 assault squads, decked out with power fists and meltaguns. Supported by some sanguinary priests and librarians. I would like to fill it out with drop podding regular tactical marines as well as some death company.

[thundrchickn]

a guy at my LGS runs an almost all JP army. 3 squads and 1 honor guard squad and I usually tear him up. The common strategy is to combat squad as much as possible witha melta in each squad, pop all tanks from rear armor after DS but bad to hit rolls will leave you with a ton of shooting at you in the next turn and if they brought templates and you shot instead of running, your gonna take tons of wounds. most tables don't provide alot of cover too so that could be a problem. I tried 2 squads with JP last week in a couple games and I didn't think they had much survivability either.

 

Remember if you take an assault squad without JP you can take a heavy bolter razorback for 20 points. All of our tanks are fast vehicles too so I think BAs are just set up better for a mechanized force.

[BlackSpike]

You dont' have to Deep Strike with JP troops.

I know it's tempting, with Descent of Angels, and getting behind tanks, but you can just swooooosh across the board, using terrain to hide your approach, and spread out rather than drop in, all bunched up.

 

If your table doesn't have much terrain, you're probably favouring a gunline army anyway. We try to have quite a bit of scenery on ours, places to hide, LoS-blocking, cover-providing, difficult, dangerous, all manner of obstacles that make it a lot more interesting than a flat open plain!

[thundrchickn]

we normally have 2 sets of trees and a builing and an impassable hill. walking across is still gonna be hard when fighting any gunline army(theres alot of em). I ran mine behind my DC LRR and a rhino and your still gonna be standing in the open to at least 1 units round of shooting if your opponent is good at position or trys to swwp you from 1 of your sides. I just prefer razorback blitzing. I think for objective based games JP army could do alright so long as your opponent doesn't claim more before you. JP armies tend to not have much for heavy weapons so it'd be hard to push someone off an objective. From experience I just haven't seen them do that well.

[Rhodric]

Jump Pack armies are completely viable. Vanguard Veterans are key to their success. I'm no expert on this, but have been running a JP army for a few games now with good results. VV using Heroic Intervention to tie up units is simply amazing. DoA makes this totally viable. 10 man Assault Squads with Meltaguns and Power Fists are simply pure awesome. These combined with Sang. Priest have been stellar for me. You need the FnP bubbles in a JP army. Honor Guard with Meltaguns are also a superb choice. They come with FnP and are great mobile tank hunters. I run mine with a Libby (Blood Lance and Shield) and they love popping tanks and other nasty units.

[Tame]

Jump Pack armies are completely viable. Vanguard Veterans are key to their success. I'm no expert on this, but have been running a JP army for a few games now with good results. VV using Heroic Intervention to tie up units is simply amazing. DoA makes this totally viable. 10 man Assault Squads with Meltaguns and Power Fists are simply pure awesome. These combined with Sang. Priest have been stellar for me. You need the FnP bubbles in a JP army. Honor Guard with Meltaguns are also a superb choice. They come with FnP and are great mobile tank hunters. I run mine with a Libby (Blood Lance and Shield) and they love popping tanks and other nasty units.

 

I'm running exactly this @ 1500-1850pts, and it's awesome. It can be hard to play, but it's fun, and a little different than the big pile of tanks you usually see on the tables nowadays.

 

Some things to try out in addition to what Rhodric said: dual libby (shield of sanguinius, blood lance again) + dual honor guard (3 meltaguns) for more mobile tank hunting, vanguards with or without storm shields, kamikaze melta or long range typhoon land speeders (to keep with the fast/jumping theme), and of course Stormravens...

[Rhodric]

Jump Pack armies are completely viable. Vanguard Veterans are key to their success. I'm no expert on this, but have been running a JP army for a few games now with good results. VV using Heroic Intervention to tie up units is simply amazing. DoA makes this totally viable. 10 man Assault Squads with Meltaguns and Power Fists are simply pure awesome. These combined with Sang. Priest have been stellar for me. You need the FnP bubbles in a JP army. Honor Guard with Meltaguns are also a superb choice. They come with FnP and are great mobile tank hunters. I run mine with a Libby (Blood Lance and Shield) and they love popping tanks and other nasty units.

 

I'm running exactly this @ 1500-1850pts, and it's awesome. It can be hard to play, but it's fun, and a little different than the big pile of tanks you usually see on the tables nowadays.

 

Some things to try out in addition to what Rhodric said: dual libby (shield of sanguinius, blood lance again) + dual honor guard (3 meltaguns) for more mobile tank hunting, vanguards with or without storm shields, kamikaze melta or long range typhoon land speeders (to keep with the fast/jumping theme), and of course Stormravens...

 

I second this as well. I've been ruining a 5-man suicide assault squad with Meltagun and Infernus Pistol and they've worked wonders with DoA! Dual Libbys and HG are fantastic. I just don't have the models ready yet lol.

[Vlad III]

Honestly? Yes. I always run a full JP army, cause that's the BAs to me. And I've not lost a game yet. The key, as has been said, is cover and priests. Now not having any tanks at all is going to hinder you a LOT, and I always run at least a Baal or 2 because of sheer number of wounds they can inflict while moving 6" every turn. However if you're fighting a LR heavy force those can easily be switched out for Vindi's dropping a 24" Large blast and moving 6"every turn as well, or even normal preds. Not to mention providing a very nice piece of LOS blocking cover with AV13 and a possible cover save if you time smokes right.

 

The HG is golden, free priest for the cost of a VV squad, I believe JamesI has got me hooked on them. And honestly, If you run 10 man PF/Dual Melta Squads and face a tank heavy army, I'm more inclined to combat squad into a 2 melta squad and a PF squad and only deepstrike half of it (unless I'm having a brain fart on the rules and you can't do that).

 

As has been said, deepstriking isn't all it's cut out to be and the only time I've ever held it all in reserve was when I played an elitist army list with only 1 HQ requirement. 4 SG squads in reserve >.> Infernus pistoled with a Pinpoint Dante squad and lets say that Ironclad didn't do much. :D

 

Using the speed of a JP army is what you really have to utilize to make it work, it lets you dictate what shots an opponent gets to make and it lets you pick when assaults happen. Use it to your advantage but remember that this is a game of luck so don't expect to win every time, just have fun. :)

[NightAdder]

Rhodic, I was looking through the book last night and I think Vangaurd do not get Descent of Angels. Or at least I didn't see it in thier list. You may want to check again but i'm almost positive vangaurd do not get it. From your post it seemed that you were infering that you were using DOA for your vangaurd, if that's not what you were infering my apologies.

 

For myself I find Running the JP guys in behind my Fast moving Rhino's tends to get opponents shooting at the Rhino's other than my JP. An armored punch with Rhinos, followed by JP and a Landraider roaring in, coupled with BAAL preds outflanking when possible seems to work for me.

 

I find that dropping assault squads behind a gun line is generally a recipe for poor health, and since Heroic Intervention is not coupled with DOA you still take your chances with it. Mind you sometimes that chance is worth taking, and I usually Heroic intervention my vangaurd behind their lines. It's been my expierence that 10 man squads are too unwieldy, (i've tried oh how i've tried) but 10 man squads tend to disintagrate whatever they hit, and thus are open to shooting next round.

 

I thus roll with two 5 man squads instead, and try to tap more than one unit when I drop, by doing this i'm hoping SOME of the enemy survive my assault phase, and that NONE of them survive during thier assault phase, thus freeing me up for my assault phase but protecting me during thier shooting phase.

 

Once you get that trick sorted out your vangaurd even if they die would cause enough havoc and mayhem in the back that your rhino's and Assault squads should get in, I also tend to run the DC with JP just behind the assault squad so that I can use the assault squad to run interference for the DC, so that the DC don't get tied up or shot at. Dosn't always work but when it does it's worth it.

[Vlad III]

Any model with a Jump pack in a Blood angels army has DoA. pg. 62 of the rule book under the Jump Pack equipment option. Last sentence. :D

[Apostolos]

Blood angel jump packs have the rule, so vets, HQs, priests, etc that take the jump pack will be granted DoA. This is the new army that I'm working on because I can't wait forever for grey knights to come out. I've only played one game at 1k but did well. For the army to work, as stated you will need either all the priests and/or honour guard. Chaplins & Libbies make a strong showing as well.

 

From what I understand, and I could be wrong, you roll for red thirst first, so this could influence which squad will roll with the priest and at deployment you choose to combat squad if you want to DoA a halved assault squad with the two meltas. An Idea I've been toying with involves a techmarine (with jump pack) for bolster defences on a key piece of terrain either to help hold an objective or to use on the approach. Granted it will have to be in your deployment area but it could still be beneficial.

 

I would recommend vets with priest over death company for an all jumping army. Overall I think FnP & FC makes the theme playable. I will say that, because of the limitation it may not be the most "competitive" build but I play for the funs anyway.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

To me jump armies are the most funny and also very powerful. Perfect for a Stormraven or two.

 

0b :D

[Jt3n]

I follow a few guys that do competitive army lists, they blog in order to help players that try not to be terrible. I'm building a 2k all jumper army due to some of their entries. They have good lists but remember that any list can be beaten, especially if your opponent builds a list just to counter it. Personally, I think these lists are pretty strong...

 

Kirby's 2k Jumper list

Stelek's 2k "Jumper" list

 

-Jt3n

[donnyb]

I follow a few guys that do competitive army lists, they blog in order to help players that try not to be terrible. I'm building a 2k all jumper army due to some of their entries. They have good lists but remember that any list can be beaten, especially if your opponent builds a list just to counter it. Personally, I think these lists are pretty strong...

 

Kirby's 2k Jumper list

Stelek's 2k "Jumper" list

 

-Jt3n

They are good lists, but neither is made of all jump troops. And therein lies the issue, you can build all jump troop lists, but it is usually better to include other options. Attack bikes with multi meltas, or devestators for example.

 

I personally prefer a couple of squads of devestators, and then everything else deepstriking, or in pods. 2 x Furioso's with frag cannons, and magna grapples are my turn 1 unit of choice. Love those!

[NightAdder]

Vlad...

 

I did not notice that, I was reading the vangaurd entry where the DOA is not listed, so sadly I assumed they didn't get it. It must not be listed due to the fact that with the vangaurd you "add" the JP not coming with it standard.

 

I never read the JP rule itself before, just skipped over it... (like, yeah yeah jump pack... next) so thanks for pointing this out to me...

 

Cheers!

 

- NightAdder

[K1rby]

I follow a few guys that do competitive army lists, they blog in order to help players that try not to be terrible. I'm building a 2k all jumper army due to some of their entries. They have good lists but remember that any list can be beaten, especially if your opponent builds a list just to counter it. Personally, I think these lists are pretty strong...

 

Kirby's 2k Jumper list

Stelek's 2k "Jumper" list

 

-Jt3n

They are good lists, but neither is made of all jump troops. And therein lies the issue, you can build all jump troop lists, but it is usually better to include other options. Attack bikes with multi meltas, or devestators for example.

 

I personally prefer a couple of squads of devestators, and then everything else deepstriking, or in pods. 2 x Furioso's with frag cannons, and magna grapples are my turn 1 unit of choice. Love those!

 

Mine is ^^. There are two types of Jumpers list I promote. Both revolve around a core of ASM/HG/Libbies with Jump Packs, where they differ is where they get their support from.

 

The 'Pure' list uses VV to clear out bubble-wraps and tie up shooting units on the drop. They also act as a meatshield against super units and generally take mass SS (if they don't, HG do.).

 

The 'Hybrid' list uses Devs (with a foot Priest) to provide 12 missiles on 6 targets for as long as possible (and 31 T4/3+/FNP models in cover are hard to move) and thus provide suppression fire and transport popping.

[donnyb]

Mine is ^^. There are two types of Jumpers list I promote. Both revolve around a core of ASM/HG/Libbies with Jump Packs, where they differ is where they get their support from.

 

The 'Pure' list uses VV to clear out bubble-wraps and tie up shooting units on the drop. They also act as a meatshield against super units and generally take mass SS (if they don't, HG do.).

 

The 'Hybrid' list uses Devs (with a foot Priest) to provide 12 missiles on 6 targets for as long as possible (and 31 T4/3+/FNP models in cover are hard to move) and thus provide suppression fire and transport popping.

Ah yes, of course it does. Somehow my brain added the attack bikes to one list and the deves to another!

 

I'm keen to trial both of these lists now.

 

My current list is closer to yours. I run Dante with HG (SS, melta guns), RAS (melta, PF), 2 x Furiosos (frag, grapple, pods beacon), TAC (pod, ip), 2 x deves (ml, las) and 2 sp.

 

enjoying it, and as I said before loving the furiosos.

 

I figure I will need to play some 2k lists without characters though, so I'm keen to try yours as it is close to what I already own. I just need more deve's, I already own the VV.

 

Thanks for putting up your list and the tactics too BTW, very much appreciated from this relative noob to 40k and especially to BA. :P

[matchbox]

I field a Full Jp army for my Fleshtearers. With the exception of Seth and a Termie Squad. Like the only problem i have is that i spend too many points on IC and not enough on basic troops. That said you can still field a pretty impressive killing machine with 2 troops and some hard hitting bad boys.

[x01848m]

I run a mostly jump pack army with success. It centers on one Lib w/ JP (Unleash Rage to make a RAS awesome in hth and Fear of the Darkness to make key enemy fire support units run off of the board as I advance), three 10-man RAS w/ TH and IP's (I know, everyone else prefers the cheaper PF and MG's), three SP's with PW's (IMO the PW is a must take on SP's), and one six-man sniper rifle scout squad w/ ML for objective holding and fire support (I used to take one tac squad for this, but now I am going for the much cheaper, longer ranged objective holder). At 2000 pts I add in one SG w/ ChB and IPx2, led by Dante. Beyond this core, I add in various support elements to give some long range punch. I have had great success with Baal Predators and Rifleman Dreadnoughts in support, but I plan to start using Devastators (to allow an all infantry target saturation approach) and the Landspeeder Tornado (great for last turn objective contesting, and long range makes it survivable) as an alternative for this list.

 

From painful experience I have learned to only deep strike Dante and his SG - their pinpoint DS accuracy paired with their better armor gives them a pretty good chance of surviving. My RAS, on the other hand, have died horribly when deep striking. As mentioned above, if you DS and shoot, then you are bunched up nicely for enemy shooting. And even worse, I have found that if you DS, then you are much less likely to get the charge in. I prefer to jump my way across the board from terrain to terrain, moving into position to ensure that I get the charge in. After you pop your enemy's transports, then with your 12" movement versus their 6" movement you should be able to control who gets to charge first.

 

And something new I am about to try since I just got an Astorath model - if I don't take Dante, then I will take Astorath, and instead of the SG I will add in one 6-man VV squad w/ TH, PWx2, and MBx2, and one 10-man Scout Squad w/ PF/Sh and BP/CCWx9 (not to imply that this is the same cost). These two units are really deadly when they get the red thirst. And RAS benefit, too - in case their priest dies, they still roll with FC.

[daboarder]

quite viable, in 12 games with the new codex I have only lost once because i couldnt force a wipeout against a single spacewolf model. I've tabled an ork nob biker list and won most of my games with teh exception of the first few qhich I drew.

 

list is at 1500pts

 

libby epistolary JP

2x 6VVS PF,2xPW

2x10RAS,2xmelta,pf

2xpriests, pw, jp

2x LS, HB/TML

 

The trick is to know when to reserve what, usually not everything though in a DoW game I brought the speeders on first turn and DS everything else but normaly the LS at least will start on the board behind cover.

[elrodogg]

Great news. It being a viable list is exactly what I wanted to hear.

 

Couple more questions, how many troop choices are necessary? We play at the 1850pt level at my club, with lots of terrain (usually 6+ buildings). Can 30 marines that can hop to any objective(s) and hopefully clear out whatever is defending them? I used to play tau when 5th ed started, and fielded 4 troop choices (2 FW and 2 kroot). Are 3x10 scoring units enough?

 

I am also thinking that a pair of 7 strong Veteran assault squads (is that was a VV is?) can really help out too. 7 strong since that's where you get the extra ring for assaulting after deep striking or has that changed?

 

The librarian - what powers? I am liking the mobile cover save, the preferred enemy, the lance attack and the morale check power are all good. I want to make sure I have the rule right, so does "chosen when army is picked" mean that it's on the roster sheet and can't be changed per opponent?

 

Last death company - where does diminishing returns come into play with them? 6,7,8? They are uber expensive at 35pts but their cool factor almost necessitates their being used.

[K1rby]

Ah yes, of course it does. Somehow my brain added the attack bikes to one list and the deves to another!

 

I'm keen to trial both of these lists now.

 

My current list is closer to yours. I run Dante with HG (SS, melta guns), RAS (melta, PF), 2 x Furiosos (frag, grapple, pods beacon), TAC (pod, ip), 2 x deves (ml, las) and 2 sp.

 

enjoying it, and as I said before loving the furiosos.

 

I figure I will need to play some 2k lists without characters though, so I'm keen to try yours as it is close to what I already own. I just need more deve's, I already own the VV.

 

Thanks for putting up your list and the tactics too BTW, very much appreciated from this relative noob to 40k and especially to BA. ;)

 

Not a problem re mixing up lists and posting things. I channel my empathic side of me on the internet so I have an excuse to do my research PhD rather than a clinical psych PhD...yes that's it.

 

You can use Dante in a pure Jumper list as well for a more offensive list by replacing ASM with Sang Guard. You've got a bigger combat punch but less staying power against low AP armies.

 

Great news. It being a viable list is exactly what I wanted to hear.

 

Couple more questions, how many troop choices are necessary? We play at the 1850pt level at my club, with lots of terrain (usually 6+ buildings). Can 30 marines that can hop to any objective(s) and hopefully clear out whatever is defending them? I used to play tau when 5th ed started, and fielded 4 troop choices (2 FW and 2 kroot). Are 3x10 scoring units enough?

 

I am also thinking that a pair of 7 strong Veteran assault squads (is that was a VV is?) can really help out too. 7 strong since that's where you get the extra ring for assaulting after deep striking or has that changed?

 

The librarian - what powers? I am liking the mobile cover save, the preferred enemy, the lance attack and the morale check power are all good. I want to make sure I have the rule right, so does "chosen when army is picked" mean that it's on the roster sheet and can't be changed per opponent?

 

Last death company - where does diminishing returns come into play with them? 6,7,8? They are uber expensive at 35pts but their cool factor almost necessitates their being used.

 

With T4/3+/FNP Marines you need about 2-3 full squads depending on points level. At 1500 I'd say 2 and at 2000 3. So for 1750/1850 somewhere in between :P. I often see at these points levels 2 full squads and a small 5 man squad or a more offensive loadout with only 2 full squads. 3 full squads at 1750/1850 can eat away at your points which is why you generally see the former ideas.

 

Stick with 5 man VV squads as you actually want flexibility with your assault ring (explained by Sepharine here).

 

For Jumper Armies Blood Lance, Sanguine Sword & Shield are all good picks and I generally go for Blood Lance + Shield. You can use both in a turn thanks to their wording and Blood Lance really hurts your opponent if they castle whilst Shield allows you to drop into the open and still survive low AP shots (somewhat). And yes they must be picked when you submit the army list (or create).

 

I'm not a fan of DC, especially in Jumper armies where scoring Troops are at a premium and they get expensive fast. So if you want to take them, keep them small IMO with only 1 maybe 2 special combat weapons.

[daboarder]

personally at 1850 I'd pack in more support units/ attack units. In my case I'd consider anything from another speeder, to filling out my vanguard squads, perhaps even another librarian for my second squad, most likely something that allows me to better deal with tanks. however anything above that then I would add another 10 RAS everytime.

[Nachocuban]

I'm about 75/25(the good way) with an all JP army and 50/50 with JP and 2 Baals. The key to the JP list, is to hide, and most times, don't DS everything, maybe hold a melta squad or 2(in larger games) in reserve for surprise tank poping, but in general, I put everything on the table, and force my enemy to get around terrain to try and shoot me, and then just jump over the terrain to assault. In my wins I have always had a libby and at least 2 sang priests, whenever I try a chappy something has gone horribly wrong.

[daboarder]

If you come up against a bike army such as DW or eldar then you are going to HAVE to deepstrike otherwise you'll never catch them if they dont want to be caught. Situations like this is where haveing the Vanguards comes in real handy like.