Double Stormraven lists Viable

[Zealadin]

So has anyone tried a double Stormraven list in the 1500-1750 points area, or currently uses such a list with any success?

I am tempted to add one to my army, but since its only AV 12 I am also tempted to hedge my bets with a second. Afterall they can lay down some range hurt early game.

 

Anyone have some insight into this concept, or advice for or against?

 

Also, a Lib with Sheild of Sang in a Stormraven, does it gain a 5+ cover save? Is it worth the cost??

[Whitefireinferno]

Answwer to the Sheild thing Yes it will But answer to the first thing 2 ravens is pretty much a quarter of your army at that points levels and when thats all on a fast AV12 thing that has the chance to kill all your guys during a flat out movement it seems a little "like all your eggs belong to one basket".

[Zealadin]

Yea thats whats worrying me at the moment.

A single lucky shot and your really in a world of pain, compared to other safer choices (comparitively).

This aside its a great delivery vehicle for DC with a Liturgies character, and a DC Dread. This kind of setup though runs into about 600-700 points alone.

 

Out of interest what happens to the Dread if its destroyed while moving flat out? Is it just the normal str4 hit on rear armour or something worse?

 

The Storm Raven is also an interesting support vehicle, how would people compare it to Baals? Obviously you could get two of those for the same price, but both make interesting fire platforms.

[Zealadin]

Sorry to double post, but where does the rule that all the models die if the vehicle is destroyed moving flat out come from?

[Whitefireinferno]

Somewhere in the Rule book lol cant point you to a page since it is at a mates BUT I could be thinking about older ed rules

[donnyb]

Sorry to double post, but where does the rule that all the models die if the vehicle is destroyed moving flat out come from?

Storm raven they can indeed get out. Skies of blood allows it. Of course there is a chance they will die from dangerous terrain tests if they don't have jump packs.

[Zealadin]

I'm more looking for the actual rule that states models die if the fast (skimmer) vehicle they are in is destroyed while moving flat out.

I can't find it anywhere in the rule book.

[donnyb]

I'm more looking for the actual rule that states models die if the fast (skimmer) vehicle they are in is destroyed while moving flat out.

I can't find it anywhere in the rule book.

Units can't disembark from a model that moves flat out.

 

page 70.

 

Curiously enough, if the model is wrecked they will die, as they can't legally disembark (due to flat-out speed) they can still be placed on the table if it explodes.

[Zealadin]

Sorry but it says "Passengers may not embark onto or disembark from a fast vehicle if it has moved (or is going to move) flat out in that movement phase.

 

Since you are never destroyed in your own movement phase, or even your opponents - (unless you fail a impassable terrain check at the end of a flat out move) I can't really see this applying, as its context is purely for embarking or disembarking during the movement phase which is currently happening, not in a future shooting/assault phase. The phase in which this special rule applies is very strictly pointed out by the underlined terminology.

 

Am I making sense or misreading this rule?

[donnyb]

Sorry but it says "Passengers may not embark onto or disembark from a fast vehicle if it has moved (or is going to move) flat out in that movement phase.

 

Since you are never destroyed in your own movement phase, or even your opponents - (unless you fail a impassable terrain check at the end of a flat out move) I can't really see this applying, as its context is purely for embarking or disembarking during the movement phase which is currently happening, not in a future shooting/assault phase. The phase in which this special rule applies is very strictly pointed out by the underlined terminology.

 

Am I making sense or misreading this rule?

Nope makes sense to me, I'm convinced. In fact now I remember my mate telling me exactly the same thing the last game I played.

 

Stupid short term memory!

 

Still curiously enough, if the model is wrecked embarked passengers will still need to make dangerous terrain tests if not equipped with jump packs, but if its exploded, the passengers float to earth unscathed.

 

I'm not seeing anything that says otherwise for disembarking from the flat-out transport with skies of blood.

[Morticon]

Zealadin - that is correct. Youre not misreading. The only way we can screw ourselves on this is if we DT ourselves moving flat out.

 

The Eldar players have been cautious about this since the inception of 5th.

 

Good spot though!

 

As to the OP - double ravens are great. But, as mentioned take up a lot of points.

 

You need to balance that with its effectiveness. There are a few things to take into consideration.

 

 

Firstly, what is it transporting?

 

I am of the current belief that it should DEFINITELY carry a dread. If you play a storm raven, you should probably be playing a furioso or a DC dread.

 

Then you have another selection to factor in. What about the 12 other spaces. Here is where my tactics and thoughts diverge a little bit. You can either load up the raven to be a god-awful death dealer, or make it a tactical unit with fewer danger points in one basket. eg: 1 raven and one dread and 1 raven with scouts vs. 1 raven with scouts, dread, priest, libby (5KP in one AV12 unit :D )

 

I believe a priest and a libby/chappy with a scout squad make for an effective, not overly expensive assault unit.

Alternatively, you have RAS (jumppackless), getting another unit to hijack their transport.

(As you can see, personally id push troops over hardcore assault elements like Terms/VanVets or HG/SG) - especially at lower level point games.

 

From that point you need to consider what type of force you will play. Again, since so much of your force is dictated by the "automatic" choices you're liikely to be considering a very aggressive, in your face list.

 

I would as a result suggest a drop pod unit, a baal (for the scout move), bikes (for the Turbo move getting the multimeltas up there) and a rhino squad, for that 18" move.

(im busy with the numbers, but its already too much - maaay not be so workable at this points level >< )

 

Possibly something like this:

 

Libby

Priest - pw

Furioso - extra armour

10 Scouts - PF

**

10 RAS - 2mg, pf

Razorback - TLLC/TLAC/TLPG-LC variant

10 TAC - 1lc, 1fl, pf

Rhino

**

Baal - HBSS

3Atk Bikers (2mm/1hb) (or another baal or even a vindy)

Raven - extra armour

Raven - extra armour

 

If you prefer only one element in each raven, then you rework that RAS/TAC core a bit with any combination of jumper, Rhino borne or drop pod marines!

[Zealadin]

Thanks for the replies!

 

It is quite funny the difference wrecked and exploded can be, and we are lucky in that units with FNP have less to worry about if they do take a hit from exploding vehicles!

 

I'm also trying to avoid vehicles, pretty much with the exception of the Stormraven and any Dreads they may carry, and definately agree 100% on the need to have a dread in tow for it to be worthwhile. I see it as a savings of the cost of a pod (for the dread) which means your almost getting a discount on the price of the Stormraven. For similar reasons I was thinking if I use DC that the Stormraven was an ideal delivery system. I'm not 100% sold on their use however due to unreliability. The DC dread with none will stay my wrath is also quite appealing.

 

I also have been considering the scouts for possibly a second SR as they are cheaper, and with sniper rifles, camo cloaks and a missile launcher may be quite good drop and hold troops.

 

I was thinking HG in a pod with meltas or plasmas, and would prefer jump infantry as troop since I'm trying to avoid tanks.

I guess my issue now is can this work with the SR's, or would I be better with none or just 1 playing this kind of army setup.

[GlauG]

I've gone crazy and signed up for 2 semi-local Tournaments coming up, one 1500, one 1750, so I've been considering the viability of the Stormraven in either list (since I love it so). I'd thought about a pair of Twin Las/MM Stormravens, or maybe Typhoon launchers (though they make an expensive unit even MORE expensive, unlike the Las/MM swap). The thing is, while I enjoy using one for deploying DC and a DC/Furioso Dread from reserves, I'm not sure how well this might work in a tournament environment with things like Officer of the Fleet... And more importantly, what do I do with the /second/ one? Two Ravens with the same DC/Dread loadout are just shy of 900pts, which is a laaarge chunk of my army, not to mention that I'd have to then take 220pts of Astorath. On the other hand, a JP-less RAS with a Priest could make for a nice "backup" if the DC get delayed/destroyed/stranded...

[Morticon]

I believe if you go the TML route, then you should stick to shooty counter. Use it as a gunship.

Move 6" and unleash hell.

Maybe keep either a dread or a scoring counter charge unit inside- but nothing big.

Then load up on shooty stuff.

Razors, Devs, Baals, Vindies (and again, even a forward pressure pod).

 

Chances are people are still going to be shooting at it unless their are more immediate and overwhelming threats.

[Zealadin]

I've been considering this too, the TML gives it a bit more reliable long range shooting, which is perfect against lots of light transports, and between a bloodstrike missile attack first round and continued shooting throughout the game it can be quite the gun ship, and be scoring with a cheap squad inside. Putting in a CC squad may be an even better idea however since it is likely to attract the wrong kind of attention, and it might discourage deep strikers.

Perhaps even the DC dread sitting in it so you can unleash hell the first few rounds, then swoop in and unload it later.

 

@ Glaug I was thinking along similar lines but like you say its extremely expensive, esp if you add a Reclusiarch to one of the DC squads for the rerolls, and its alot of eggs in one basket, especially for AV 12 :pinch:

 

The biggest issue I have with the new BA codex is its just got so much good stuff in it. Its too hard to choose. Not that I want them to take it back :woot:

[JamesI]

I believe if you go the TML route, then you should stick to shooty counter. Use it as a gunship.

Move 6" and unleash hell.

Maybe keep either a dread or a scoring counter charge unit inside- but nothing big.

Then load up on shooty stuff.

Razors, Devs, Baals, Vindies (and again, even a forward pressure pod).

 

Chances are people are still going to be shooting at it unless their are more immediate and overwhelming threats.

I agree with this.

 

If you use the Typhoon Missiles, go for long range shooty stuff, like lascannons on the Ravens.

 

A heavy shooty army, with the Ravens to distract the enemy should prove pretty nasty. Keep something potent like DC inside the ravens (say DC in one and a DC dread in the other) to hurt people that get too close.

[Zealadin]

Hmm I may have to see how that would work out points wise, filling both SR's certainly makes them too expensive but like that its much cheaper, and more feasible, esp to get other stuff in there too!

[GlauG]

Hmm... Lascannon and Typhoon both being 48" would make for a pretty scary long-ranged support craft. Mort, if you move 12", you can fire both weapons due to PotMS, so you don't just need to move 6", right? Is extra Armour to make sure they can stay on the move, too?

JamesI, I'm not personally sure about keeping the DC on them in that case, unless you're prepared to use them as a rapid reaction unit(and thus get them a bit too close for "safe" fire support), but in line with Mort's idea maybe a RAS combat-squadded between the two just to tie up anything that gets too close, or maybe even a 5-man squad in each so you could buy a pair of fire support Razorbacks cheap or something. Or, better yet, keep 5-man combat squads from combat squads you've got the other half of in Razorbacks... For an added bonus, if you keep one of them alive that long you could zoom to contest or claim an objective in the last turn.

[JamesI]

Glau, that would work too, I was just leaning towards something a bit more powerful than just a RAS.

[Zid]

So wait... you wanna spend 400+ points, make a list entirely reliant on 2 AV 12 vehicles at 1500 points? You do know 1 4 ML dev squad will usually take it down within a turn...

 

I love my raven, don't get me wrong. But building lists that rely heavily on it is always a huge no-no. Just like a valk its impossible to hide, and once its on, sooooo much crap will fire at it til its dead.

 

Thats just my two cents

[Brother_Dan'l]

And having the entire firepower potential of the enemy aimed at two reasonably armored fast skimmers is a bad thing how? Strikes me that you've just made the lives of your assault squads much safer. And the amount of dice you can throw the turn they arrive should be capable of beating up on what ever the biggest threat to them is at that point. Will they live thru 2 or 3 or 4 turns of concentrated fire? Only if your enemy is a boob or has my plasma dice. :D But they don't have to. Because the rest of your army should be in and amongst his units at that point allowing you to choose where to drop your cargo and what to shoot.

 

Odds are one of them will get shot down pretty quick. But since you've got two of them and the other 1100+/- points of your army left who cares?

[SamaNagol]

2 Ravens and a Land Raider in 1500pts is even better :D

[Kinzel]

I've started building my own pair of Storm Ravens atm and was curious how all you guys equip them and for what role you mainly see them performing.

 

By that I mean I plan to run mine as fast transports that revert to gunships once they've dropped troops (and hopefully survive..) but I'm not sure if I should keep all short range weapons to burn any units since they'll be right there (Assault Can and Melta) or go with a mix so it can do damage up close but can sit at 48" relatively safe. (Melta and Lascannon) or pure gunship of Las and Typhoon so it drops troops and bugs out to max range asap.

 

Finally what is your opinion on the Hurricanes? Worth it? On a pure gunship I'd say no but for a transport I'd say yes so I duno :/ Plus I have a cool idea on how to build some that I really wana do but don't want to waste points (and time lol) on something that might not be worth it.

 

Maybe it's just that the idea of a twin Assault Cannon and 2 Hurricanes opening up on a squad is awesome. :)

 

*edit* :lol: and I just realised what I want might simply be a flying Crusader ;p

[Brother_Dan'l]

I've decided that Meltas aren't worth it. Limited range plus only a single die isn't worth the effort. At this point I've built both of mine with Assault Cannon and Typhoon Launchers. One of them has mounting points for Hurricane Bolters, but 30 points is a tough pill to swallow. Number 3 will have, probably, lascannons or plasma but I'm not really sure.

 

With AC+TML+BSM you can hunt any type of target and have a very good chance of killing it. Sure only the AC can penetrate AV14, but otherwise I haven't come across anything that can survive that much firepower. And if you really are willing to spend 255 points you can hit an infantry target with four S6 rending, twelve S4, two S4 blasts and four S8. I doubt even a large Ork mob is going to look too scary after that.

 

I'm sure there is somebody out there who uses the Heavy Bolters. Well, maybe not. :lol:

[kollar]

I've decided that Meltas aren't worth it. Limited range plus only a single die isn't worth the effort.

 

Single die with a reroll. They are TL after all. Add to that, you can alpha strike by moving only 6" during the turn you want to really hit something, and add 4 Bloodstrike missiles against the same target, with POTMS Assault Cannon on something else...