Hospitallar Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Hi, I've been toying with the idea of changing my Black Templars into a renegade force with resemblance to the Red Corsairs fluff. Currently I have a fair amount; Land Raider, 2 Dreadnoughts, Rhino, 10 Assault Marines, roughly 20 - 30 Space Marines, 5 Terminators, Emperors Champion, Chaplain (jump pack). My thoughts are that these space marines were recently part of a Crusade but fell to the powers of Chaos so still maintain a fair few insignia of the previous Black Templars they once were. The idea is to now buy some Chaos Space Marines to add into the mix to make the army more obviously Chaos in aesthetic look. So what does everyone think? You reckon I'd be able to use such a force in games at my local GW or do you think there will be problems with the 'humms and harrs' of "technically you can't use such a force" shiza :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Considering the fact that your army is fluffed as recent traitors, for the most part you should not have too much difficulty with conversions. Most units that recently turned traitor just desecrate any holy symbols on their current gear, and then carry on, and even some of the legions use lots of captured and desecrated Imperial wargear. Just mess up any aquilae on your marines' armor and toss in some Chaos icon-bearers and you'll be off to a good As long as your units and upgrades are reasonably clear (which should not be too much of a problem since it is just converting from one type of Marine to another) I don't expect anyone reasonable would refuse to play you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulochromis Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Are you actually planning to use the Chaos codex? That's not always a good idea, this forum has plenty of people that advocate that recently fallen renegades benefit from still using the space marines codex, whilst giving their creative side freer rein on the modelling/painting side. Cheers, Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hospitallar Posted July 13, 2010 Author Share Posted July 13, 2010 Are you actually planning to use the Chaos codex?That's not always a good idea, this forum has plenty of people that advocate that recently fallen renegades benefit from still using the space marines codex, whilst giving their creative side freer rein on the modelling/painting side. Cheers, Paul. That's a good point actually. But I think I'd prefer to go codex Chaos Space Marines as when it comes to variety of armies played my usual perception is that a lot of them are Space Marine players and I think I would get bored of playing the same old games which don't make a lot of sense fluff wise ( why would space marines fight one another? etc ) Plus I have a spare Defiler already made which I bought randomly back in the day when I was going to start a Lost and the Damned army, thanks for ruining that idea GW. Does anyone have any linky's regarding converting space marines or any good examples of players on here or on another website? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playa Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Hey, I think I'd prefer to go codex Chaos Then you'll first have to buy two Daemon Prince models to prove your dedication ... when it comes to variety of armies played my usual perception is that a lot of them are Space Marine players and I think I would get bored of playing the same old games which don't make a lot of sense fluff wise ( why would space marines fight one another? etc ) Assuming you'd also find losing every game "boring" - Chaos is now down to 2 lists that are 2nd tier *at best*. And if you think that playing a BT list is boring, you're in for a real treat with the Gavdex. Especially if you're really that sensitive to fluff butchery ... Does anyone have any linky's regarding converting space marines Don't do it. It's not necessary under the new dex, where Legionnaires are mere untermenschen. You really will need 2 DP and 4-6 Obliterators, though. Also another Defiler - modify both for CC. You might want to first focus your energies in that area if you're serious about coming to the Dark Side. Playa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Uhhh ok, no. First of all, Chaos can be a T1 list but yes that butchers the fluff. Even if you follow the fluff fairly well, you can easily be competitive especially if you play friendly pick up games and whatnot. Yes, you would need a daemon prince (though 2 are not necessary, I've never run 2 and I do fine) and yes oblits are also very helpful as they are unfortunately our only good long range unit. Another thing that you will need is rhinos but BT need those too. Defilers are unnecessary and in my opinion not even that good, but if you do want some, take 2 and give them 2x CC weapons. All that said, if I were you, I would just stick with Templars, they are in my opinion easier to play at a casual level, though inferior at the very competitive level which I don't think you play at. Also, they generally allow for more variety than you will find in any working Chaos list which generally consists of very few unit types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caboosebe Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Don't do it. It's not necessary under the new dex, where Legionnaires are mere untermenschen. really over the top, legionnaires can be very usefull and even indeed a winning factor if you play them with a little bit of strategy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hospitallar Posted July 13, 2010 Author Share Posted July 13, 2010 haha, I come here expressing my wishes to fall victim to the Dark Gods only to find the Traitors saying "may as well not bother its a loosing battle" :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmurie Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Are you asking about rules, or modeling? For modeling and painting plastic is your friend! If you've got a good community of Chaos players in your area they're going to have a lot of bits and pieces that you can buy/trade in the interest of desecration. At minimum, I'd scrape the eagles off their chests, and I'd make an effort to get rid of other obvious symbols of imperial loyalty. A few weapon swaps and the addition of an icon here and there and you'll have something clearly Chaosy. If you don't make an effort to remove or maul the aquilla's it'll look wrong. Best and easiest of all is if you've got unassembled models. Buy a Chaos Marines box or two and mix and match the pieces. I'm using weapons from the Loyalist Devastator box to equip my Iron Warriors and scratch built Oblits (Never doing that again. Too much work doing it right!) I have a group of ten with a ML using the loyalist ML and legs with a chaos torso and head and you'd not mistake him for a loyalist. I'd just set aside or sell any metal models like the Champ. Converting those is more pain than it's worth. Dreadnaughts, as pretty as they can be, require a player more dedicated to painting than winning by a wide margin. They suck more than a very sucky thing indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Kovash Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 One question, are you planning on still using your models as Black Templars in the future, or are you giving up on them altogether? Seems to me like you want the best of both worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Asmodius Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 I've done something similar with my Red Corsairs army. I field 60% full chaos marines, 30% space marines in red corsair colors, and 10% new recruits in old chapter colors who always bite the dust first in games :D . I've never had any complaints about it before from other players. As far as using the Chaos codex, Id advise it but i find nothing wrong with the basic chaos marine. I agree with Rain's analysis of the Chaos codex but I find this kind of army fun to paint and model as well as play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sword brethren Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 for conversion ideas if say build your marine as normal then stop, take a look and add stuff like one chaos shoulder pad or a chaos back pack. if you are just turning then your marines gear will be of the half and half variety. as stated, get a chaos squad and a marine squad and mix it around :D i like it fluffwise it seems a bit like word bearers with the sort of devotion templars give. when push comes to shove, for show just add little chaos bits and remove imperial symbols here you can. in regards to our codex, i used a 1500 point army yesterday against 2 friends who were determined to play 2 on one. so it was 1000 point + 1000 point vs my 1500 point. at the end my daemon prince was being mean to some weapons teams and the raptors that accompanied him were chasing the remaining guard across the board laughing, as for his allied tyranid they formed a neat carpet of bodies. nothing wrong with the codex rules wise (except for lack of legion rules) and with bezerkers and plague marines being troops (which i have a feeling they will be elite in our next dex) its not all so bad. unfortunatly the legiony fluff has been royally teabagged.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexington Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 So what does everyone think? You reckon I'd be able to use such a force in games at my local GW or do you think there will be problems with the 'humms and harrs' of "technically you can't use such a force" shiza :blink: Can't imagine anyone would have a big problem with the idea, though I don't think it's particularly representative of your background. Where'd all of your Storm Bolters, Land Speeders and Lightning Claws go? How come some recently-fallen BTs suddenly found a cache of Reaper Autocannons and other weaponry that's not been seen for ten thousand years? And if you think that playing a BT list is boring, you're in for a real treat with the Gavdex. Especially if you're really that sensitive to fluff butchery ... *cue my oft-repeated observation that people who say the new list 'butchers the fluff' aren't fans of the fluff, but of certain army list configurations that are in no way grounded in the Chaos backstory* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hospitallar Posted July 15, 2010 Author Share Posted July 15, 2010 Well, since I'd be mixing up the force with both conventional and recent renegades (going for a Red Corsair Army), that would hopefully solve the whole Reaper Auto Cannon anomaly. As for Speeders, I only have one, so no big loss. As for the 'Gavdex butchery' , I must admit, there were some very unique armies - I especially liked the Alpha Legion Cultist squads - that will, in my eyes, be sadly missed save the over powered Iron Warriors. Never had a problem with BT fluff, always admired the concept of Crusade in Medieval times and a futuristic variant I admired greatly but I felt that I couldn't really 'get into' the army if that makes sense. With Chaos there's a fair bit of scope to expand your originality onto most of your army. Where I find with most space marines its all 'professional armies' and devotion to the Emperor I prefer the concept of greedy and jealous warlords vying for power and recognition from the Dark Gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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