A little help here

[mercury]

My 40K experience began when I bought the new edition of Space Hulk last year. I fondly remembered the game from when I was a kid so I snapped up a copy for myself. At the time I was playing Warmachine with a group of friends and though the metagame was competitive, it was also very good natured.

 

Then I moved house into an area where there was no Warmachine scene at all. So I decided to try 40K, as there were weekly club nights for the game. I went with Blood Angels cos I had already started painting the Space Hulk Termies. Since February I have amassed a reasonable collection of Blood Angels (about 2000-points or so). I have enjoyed painting them, but am beginning to lose the will to paint anymore red! My problem is that the 40K players in my area fall into one of two categories: kids or jerks. Both types of player only seem to play to win, with the kids often bending the rules to do so, and the jerks bringing the most cheesy of net-decked power builds. I don't know if it is largely because I am an 'outsider', but I haven't experienced the same level of camaraderie that I did when playing Warmachine. I am tired of playing against cheats, or armies of partially assembled/converted wolf cavalry with storm shields, or Imperial Guard Valkyries with more meltaguns than I can shake a stick at.

 

Anyway, my questions are two-fold. It looks as though I will be moving (again) into a new area - buying a house this time so the move will be a LOT more permanent. The area has both 40K and Warmachine scenes. In your experiences am I likely to encounter the same thing again with the 40K players (is this attitude endemic to the hobby)? Secondly, can you help me make a vaguely competitive list/give me some tactical advice for the models I own? My 40K experience is limited, so maybe I am feeling a little down from losing all the time. Here's what I have:

 

Tycho

Captain with power sword

Librarian with JP

Terminator Librarian (from Space Hulk)

 

Corbulo

Space Hulk Termies (best unit I think you can field is 8 Termies with assault cannon/heavy flamer)

5 Sanguinary Guard (basic load-out, used as 200-point alternative to Termies in 'Black Reach'-style games)

Furioso Dreadnought with frag cannon + meltagun

Drop Pod

 

10 Tactical Marines with heavy bolter and flamer

5 Assault Marines with power fist and meltagun

Rhino

5 Death Company with thunder hammer and power axe

Death Company Dreadnought with talons, meltagun and storm bolter

 

Land Speeder with heavy bolter and typhoon missiles

3 Scout Bikers with 1 grenade launcher

 

Dreadnought with storm bolter and multi-melta/assault cannon options

5 Devastators with 2 missile launchers and 1 plasma cannon

 

 

I know many people who read this will be thinking "get more transports" or "get more scoring units" or "you need Baal Predators", but this is what I have. I know that my purchases have not necessarily been the best in terms of tactics/army build but they represent what I felt like painting at the time. Pretty much all of the above are painted, so I don't really want to change any model configurations. I also do not want to buy anymore figures for three reasons:

1. I am buying a house. That is expensive.

2. I am getting bored of painting red and need a change.

3. I'm not sure if I want to continue with 40K so don't want to throw anymore money at it.

 

Looking at the model list above, what would you select in terms of a moderately competitive 1000 or 1500-point list and how would you approach the game tactically (I don't want to win tournaments, just hold my own a little better)?

 

Thanks

 

Mercury

[Somar]

it looks like a bunch of models you could have fun playing with, unless you always run into hardcore tourney armies. i would stock the devs up to 10 and CS them, stock up the assault guys and you should be good to go.

to have 2 heavy weapons in the termie squad you need 10 though.

a bunch of termies with a priest to give them FnP are good for soaking some fire while the rest of your army does its thing.

 

just fiddle around with it some and never go into a game thinking: argh, i HAVE to win this one.

use it to lear, expect to loose, if you do, fine, if not, great.

[grazer]

Moving into a new area and having to meet the new gamer group is a daunting task even when you aren't trying a new game. I'd chalk it up more to being in a new group than the game being played though. My advice is to ask around and talk to the gamers about more "beer and pretzels" type of games instead of tournament gaming, as that sound more like the style of gaming you like.

 

As for the list, talk to the gamers and see if they mind you proxying a model here and there to test out new things before buying them. Sanguinary Priests are a godsend in BA lists, so I highly suggest getting one or two of them in your list. And as Somar said, don't go in having to win every game, learning from each game you play will make you a stronger player.

[fivepointedstar]

I agree with Grazer. Go online and search for a group of common ground players like yourself. Don't quit because of the jerks, and cheaters.. consider it a challenge! If you can beat or hold your morales against a horde of cheats, and scoundrals your doing quite good then.

 

You have a fantastic list of mini's at your command. It would be a waste to stop when it could only get better.

 

Call me up if your ever in the Twin Cities area in Minnesota, USA

[Skanwy]

Hi Mercury,

 

I agree much with the previous posters. It is difficult to play in a competitive environment. I have experienced this abit meself, but the difference is the guys i met were quite nice even though they wiped me lol! No gloating or anything like that. I would encourage ye not to give up, but just take this as a sort of training.

 

I've only played a few games (actually just 3) with my BA. And i use a Sanguinary Guard (SG) army. I too did not want to buy more minis, thus decided to start a BA army on the cheap, hence a SG army.

 

I have looked at your available models and came up with a list. It may not be effective given my limited experiences, but i'll take a shot at it ^_^

 

HQ

Tycho

 

Librarian in Terminator Armor w/Storm Shield

 

Elites

5 Terminators (one with Chainfist)

 

Furioso Dreadnaught Librarian (with Extra Armor)

 

Troops

10 Tactical Marines with Heavy Bolter and Plasmagun

 

5 Death Company marines (Thunder Hammer & Power weapon)

in a Rhino (Extra armor)

 

Death Company Dread in a Drop Pod

 

5 Assault Marines with Power Fist and Meltagun

 

Heavy Support

5 Devastators with 2 Missile Launchers

 

This should come to an exact 1500 points.

 

Game play:

 

I noticed that most of your marine squads are 5 or less except the Tactical. As such you may end up giving a bit more KP in Kill point missions. But you do have the advantage of throwing multiple targets for your opponent who would be hopefully distracted at shooting too many targets to do enough damage.

 

I would give the plasmagun to the Tac Squad and combat squad before battle to claim objectives. The Heavy bolter looks fine and should be able to snipe at enemy while camping the objective. The plasmagun should also be able to shoot 24 inches at light armor if needed.

 

I chose Tycho as i like the model haha! He could be made into the Death Company variant and placed with the DC in a rhino to rush at the enemy. Rhino moves flat out and pops smoke.

 

The assault squads can follow behind the DC rhino for cover and assist in the assault OR they could drop in with the Termis and Librarian in Termi armor on another flank.

 

As said earlier, the Termis could deep strike with the libby on another flank and provide suppressive fire before their assault. They can also take out enemy tanks with their fists. The Termi Libby could also use his psychic powers like Blood Lance and Sanguine sword to take out enemy armor. Fear of Darkness is a surprisingly good power to play with ;)

 

The DC Dread may be sacrificial as he will be Drop Podded in the flank you are charging your assault units. If he survives, he will be able to charge the enemy next turn.

Your opponent will hopefully target him for a turn allowing your assaulty units to move in at speed relatively unmolested.

 

The Furioso Librarian will also move in to support on another flank or the centre. He will use Wings of Sanguinius to move faster and if he stays in range of other units he can choose to use the Shield of Sanguinius.

 

Dev Squad is to take try and take out light enemy tanks up to AV13. Its only 2 missile launchers so they may not do too much.

 

Yup, thats my 2 cents Hope it helps. And all the best in your battles.

[daboarder]

not a bad collection there, you could make some decent themed armies with that that will still have some bite to them. Just a few words, you need to pick up some priests, yes they make our small forces slightly smaller but they are worth their wieght in gold. here are some ideas for some builds that you could throw together with that list.

 

Librarian, terminator armour epistolary

Terminator squad

grab a priest in termie armour with PW for them

Dreadnought

Death Co Dread

Tac squad/ Rhino

Assualt squad/ Rhino

 

Or

Tycho

Death company/ Rhino

Assualt squad/ Rhino

Tac

Dev

Dread

Death Co Dread

 

just some basic ideas.

 

As for jerks, I rarely run into those kinds of players but perhaps its because I refuse to suffer fools and will readily pack up mid game if I have too.

[Taranis]

Very good advice from Skanwy. Dc tycho cannot join squads as he looses independent character rule. Otherwise very good post. If an opponent refuses a few proxys in a friendly game it could indicate them being more focused on winning than having mutural fun. Hope you hang in there.

T.

[mercury]

Very good advice from Skanwy. Dc tycho cannot join squads as he looses independent character rule. Otherwise very good post.

 

I agree. I am delighted that someone took the time to write such a thorough response. Thanks Skanwy. I am aware of the issue with Tycho. My model is a conversion of Tycho prior to his injury so has gold armour anyway. It's just a little strange that he can join a Death Company but the DC version of Tycho cannot. Also I believe that the new FAQ precludes me from taking extra armour on my Furioso Librarian. Other than that, I will be giving Skanwy's list a try.

[The Thirst]

I have enjoyed painting them, but am beginning to lose the will to paint anymore red!

 

jut a suggestion dont play Khador!

 

 

 

PS i play Circle Orboros

 

 

NOW I MUST FLEE BEFORE THEY SET THE SMURFS ON ME!

 

I have enjoyed painting them, but am beginning to lose the will to paint anymore red!

 

jut a suggestion dont play Khador!

 

 

 

PS i play Circle Orboros

 

 

NOW I MUST FLEE BEFORE THEY SET THE SMURFS ON ME!

[Morticon]

Anyway, my questions are two-fold. It looks as though I will be moving (again) into a new area - buying a house this time so the move will be a LOT more permanent. The area has both 40K and Warmachine scenes. In your experiences am I likely to encounter the same thing again with the 40K players (is this attitude endemic to the hobby)?

 

I'd like to take a stab as this as a bit of a self-confessed 40k globe trotter.

Ive mentioned this in one or two places before, but I've played 40k in 7 cities across 4 continents. Generally speaking I've met great people. This may have to do with my mind set as well though. I'm very competitive, but always make a point of giving my opponent a fun, fair and enjoyable game (even if hes losing - or more importantly, if I am. ). So, even though Im down for whatever my opponent throws as me, be it back in 3rd ed with rhino rush and triple wraithlords, to AC spam of 4th ed marines to nidzilla, its knowing that I could be up against this that helps the most.

It SUCKS when your opponents lose sight of the fun aspect of the game over the competitiveness of it. Its a bit of a balancing act there. And in a community that shares a competitive goal - its rough. I moved back from Japan to South Africa a few months ago. Japan had a bunch of "for fun" players (other than my immediate friends who were all cutthroats :) ). And it was enjoyable to an extent and allowed me to play an array of models. Problem was, it got very boring when i wanted variety and a challenge. I didnt learn anything from those "for fun" players.

Then got to SA...and man. Even the 12 year olds were giving me a run for my money (admittedly with "net lists" as you mentioned).

 

Long story short- I think dont think competitiveness is endemic to the hobby per se. What I do think is that people tend to play to their environment. Even within your ultra comp. environment, you may find some players that really wanna busy out the "fun" units but dont wanna get their heads kicked in all the time. Try play those peeps - or find them first.

Also, mix up the points level. If the local tourney circuit is 1850, then play a 1k game. Or a 2500 game.

Try battlemissions, themed missions, story driven ideas. Make a campaign. All of those things can add so much flavour to your 40k experience.

 

 

Secondly, can you help me make a vaguely competitive list/give me some tactical advice for the models I own? My 40K experience is limited, so maybe I am feeling a little down from losing all the time. Here's what I have:

 

Tycho

Captain with power sword

Librarian with JP

Terminator Librarian (from Space Hulk)

 

Corbulo

Space Hulk Termies (best unit I think you can field is 8 Termies with assault cannon/heavy flamer)

5 Sanguinary Guard (basic load-out, used as 200-point alternative to Termies in 'Black Reach'-style games)

Furioso Dreadnought with frag cannon + meltagun

Drop Pod

 

10 Tactical Marines with heavy bolter and flamer

5 Assault Marines with power fist and meltagun

Rhino

5 Death Company with thunder hammer and power axe

Death Company Dreadnought with talons, meltagun and storm bolter

 

Land Speeder with heavy bolter and typhoon missiles

3 Scout Bikers with 1 grenade launcher

 

Dreadnought with storm bolter and multi-melta/assault cannon options

5 Devastators with 2 missile launchers and 1 plasma cannon

 

 

I know many people who read this will be thinking "get more transports" or "get more scoring units" or "you need Baal Predators", but this is what I have. I know that my purchases have not necessarily been the best in terms of tactics/army build but they represent what I felt like painting at the time. Pretty much all of the above are painted, so I don't really want to change any model configurations. I also do not want to buy anymore figures for three reasons:

1. I am buying a house. That is expensive.

2. I am getting bored of painting red and need a change.

3. I'm not sure if I want to continue with 40K so don't want to throw anymore money at it.

 

Looking at the model list above, what would you select in terms of a moderately competitive 1000 or 1500-point list and how would you approach the game tactically (I don't want to win tournaments, just hold my own a little better)?

 

Thanks

 

Mercury

 

Matey - as noted by yourself you are a bit limited in your options. This is probably what is causing your frustration.

None of those units are "awful". I believe you make of them what you can.

However, the problem is you lack a very good core.

There are certain elements needed for a successful BA army, and unfortunately your list doesnt allow for that at the moment.

 

 

There are a few things I would suggest. (It may be good to suggest the bits you have to help us know what you can chop up - I know when I started, I was VERY bit poor and couldnt make half the options people were suggesting.)

 

Overall ideas:

 

1. Get a lascannon model for your tac. Its the cheapest place to put a lascannon. If you're playing tacs in the first place- do it!

2. Get a powerfist sarge.

3. Get a melta gun on the RAS.

4. Get the RAS jump packs and use the Rhino for the TACs (even if this means ripping off the packs from your DC. Mobility is usually a key to success.

5. Focus on shooty/counter as your army style. Do NOT go all out assault because you dont really have the ability to do it.

 

I'd consider something like this at 1500 points:

 

 

Libby w/ JP - Fear/Rage

 

6 Term w/ AC

Corbs

Furioso w/ Talons, extra armr

Pod

 

10 TAC - LasCan, Flmr, Fist

Rhino

5 RAS - Meltagun, Pwr Wpn (try get the JPs for this - and then libby can roll with this squad).

 

Typhoon Speeder- HB/Typhoon.

 

5 Devs - 2ML, 1PC

Dread - AC, extra armour. (or MM if you need a cheaper one?)

3 Scout Bikers. (locator?)

 

 

 

But in essence you're looking to make a shooty mobile force.

Almost everything can move and shoot. You castle up, hope you dont come up against something shootier and then shoot the crap out of it forcing it to come closer, when you jump on it. The furioso pod shouldnt be deployed overly aggressively at all. Mainly to block firing lines or cause a flanking distraction.

 

In the event you come up against an uber shooty army, you can try a BA assault. Devs and possibly a combat squad supply back support while the scouters head on up to make use of the beacon and allow the terms and jumpers and pod to come in where you need it. Thing is you really dont have the numbers for that attrition, so a lot will depend ont he enemies make up.

The thing about this army is that its fairly balanced and can handle all comers and more importantly it allows at least a bit of reactivity.

[Skanwy]

Hi Mercury,

 

No worries man ;) Glad that the suggestions have helped.

 

Incidentally, i went to read the FAQ, didn't realize it was out LOL! Strange that they took extra armor from the Furioso...mebe it was too hard to take down with smoke and extra armor.

 

Oh yea, and i didn't notice that Tycho loses IC status when he goes psycho. I also agree that its also weird Tycho can't join DC squad when he is inducted to DC..

But he's also good as a normal captain as he has RoB for army wide leadership. He's basically there to add a few wounds to thin down the number of attacks hitting back at the DC squad.

 

I just thought of another alternative you could consider. This is done by dropping the termis and termi libby and going for the Sanguinary Guard with attached Jump pack Libby :)

 

Libby and SG could move with the assaulty flank (consisting of DC in Rhino and Assault Marines) and give them Shield of Sanguinius for cover till next turn ;) The SG power weapons would go a long way in helping out an assault. They can also take on the opponent's counter assault unit and survive, as long as it ain't of the TH/SS termi kind.

 

Your models do have the good beginnings of a BA force, and it would be great to see their evolution into a bigger force in the future.

 

I lose most of the time, but i got a way around that in my narrative/fluff. The outcome (usually a lost for me haha) of the battle is where i base my story. I write it as a vision that Corbulo sees (Far seeing eye and all that), and he is then able to warn the captain of the outcome. So the battle still took place, but at least you are able to justify that having seen the outcome, the BA were able to avoid the disaster/losses. Not sure if i make sense here ;)

[Tigcarn]

The place were I play has a fairly friendly atmosphere for the most part. Still has your group of kids and a one win at all costs player. I tend to play the kids mostly to get them games and try to help teach them rules, tactics, and combinations they can do with their armies to make them better players and have more enjoyable games.

There is also another way to look at your win at all costs players. Most of them are pretty strict on the rules and when it comes to a ruling they will want the rule to be 100% for them or 100% against them. No middle ground. Knowing that this is how they play beforehand you can look at games with players like this as a learning experience and use them to make yourself a better player incase you decide to enter any competative tournaments. Applying this train of thought to those type of games can make them more enjoyable for yourself.

[mercury]

@ Morticon:

 

Thanks for the help. I really do appreciate that you have taken the time to reply.

 

My Assault Marines have interchangeable jump packs/back packs so that is not an issue. I also have a lascannon in my bits box from the Devastator boxed set. This means I only need to find the parts for a Sergeant with power weapon, though I'm sure I have enough leftover DC/Assault spares to kit bash one together. Your suggested list totals 1505 by my math, so I may have to swap the Dev's plasma cannon for a heavy bolter to save 5 points - my heavy weapons marines don't wear helmets so I can switch them between squads. The other issue is the Furioso with Blood Talons. I don't fancy re-painting my DC Dread, and I'm more inclined to use the frag cannon option anyway since it can actually do something when the Dread leaps out of its pod and isn't completely boned by a 'weapon destroyed' result.

 

I shall certainly give your list (and Skanwy's concept) a trial when I have time.

 

 

@ The Thirst:

 

I actually have quite a large Khador army, but mine is painted camo green!!

[Morticon]

Frag cannon is no prob. It does force you into a much more aggressive role with the dready, but its an awesome unit.