Moving good moral troops in a Tank Shock

[STUCARIUS]

Ok, first post from a new forum member but 20+ year RT player

 

If a tank shocking vehicle moves into but not through a unit how do you move the figures?

 

Do they move away from the vehicle by the shortest distance at a minimum of 1" distance at the conclusion?

 

Does the tank just teleport into the midst of the unit and figures are just placed all around it at the owning players discretion. Thus swallowing the vehicle?

 

In essence I guess I am wondering if the models are moved away from the vehicles path if its movement would end in the middle of or partially penetrating the unit.

 

I know if you pass all the way through models just stay as they are but the rule for ending in the units position is different.

 

Grammatically the rule is worded future tense for the vehicle and active tense for the models being shocked. This seems to imply they move away from the vehicle before you place it.

 

Is this correct? It was played this way by rulings made by GW staff in my latest tourney but there is an argument in our local group.

 

There are some who are saying you pick up the tank, place it where it would move then move the models in any direction they wish including swallowing up the tank by even moving models into the location the tank might have passed or even not have passed to its rear during what would have been its movement.

 

Thanks for the input,

 

-STUCARIUS-

[Frosty the Pyro]

IIRC you only look at the final position of the tank shocking tank, and any enemy models underneith the tank are moved, those within 1" are not moved (vehicles break the enemies within 1" rule with suprising regularity). Any enemies along the path have to take the moral test, but I am fairly certain you already understood that.

[Koremu]

Anything within 1" of the final position of the tank has to move the minimum distance necessary to be at least 1" away, and within unit coherency.

[Frosty the Pyro]

Anything within 1" of the final position of the tank has to move the minimum distance necessary to be at least 1" away, and within unit coherency.

Negitive, only those underneath the tank have to move, models within 1" but not underneath are not required to move.

[SeattleDV8]

Agreed, pg. 68 clearly states only the models underneath the vehicle are moved, falling back or not.

[Acebaur]

Well whether or not they are under the tank, they still have to be 1" away as you can only be within 1" when assaulting.

[Frosty the Pyro]

Well whether or not they are under the tank, they still have to be 1" away as you can only be within 1" when assaulting.

no. Tank shock is a noted exception to that rule.

[STUCARIUS]

Agreed, pg. 68 clearly states only the models underneath the vehicle are moved, falling back or not.

 

OK, I am on top of that idea. I might not have explained the problem well.

 

First thanks for all the response so far. I know this might be a little repetitive but please bear with me.

 

Here is what the rules states. (page 68 second column 3rd paragraph) "iIf some enemy models in the enemy unit WOULD [future tense] end up underneath the vehicle when it reaches its final position (it makes no difference whether the unit is falling back or not), these models must be MOVED OUT OF THE WAY [active response based on future action] by the shortest distance, leaving at least 1" between them and the vehicle and maintaining unit coherency."

 

Now my Information Architect, Tech Writer Wife (who has done rules editing for companies) says the sentence structure clearly states the enemy models must move in response to the vehicles future action and not its current action. Although she hates the passive language and hates how poorly GW rules are written and organized.

 

So grammatically you should move models out of the way "by the shortest distance", which would necessarily mean away from its path not through the path, as the vehicles movement makes it clear they would be either under the vehicle or with in 1".

 

Now in the paragraph right above this rule it says that a unit that is tank shocked and passes its test allows the vehicle to move straight through and out the other side until it hits another unit or ends its move. Now I honestly think this is just an expediency to keep figures from needlessly being moved and to keep players from just running a vehicle through and army while parting units like Moses and the Red Sea. Meaning. Just leave the figures in place and move on. There is no need to shuffle the figures around as they would just close right back up as the vehicle passed on to the next unit.

 

To perhaps add more to the intent of the rule I think you need to read the "Death or Glory" rule. If the model fails to stop the vehicle GW states. "If the attack fails...The brave glory seeker is crushed by the vehicle grinding over him." GW seems to be stating here that models failing to move out of the way as the vehicle approached would be "...crushed by the vehicle grinding over them.".

 

So to me the intent of the rules seems to be that you should move models away from and not allow them to be under the vehicle at any point if the vehicle will stop its movement occupying the space formerly held by the unit/models. While the rule above concerning vehicles passing all the way through units is an expediency and protection from gamesmanship, the statement in "Death or Glory" results makes it clear that in reality models cannot have been, or cannot be under the vehicle at any time with out being killed regardless of wounds.

 

The reason this is important is that a good friend and gaming partner feels you pick up the tank place it on top of the unit and move the figures away. As if the vehicle never actually moves progressively across the table. Even if that means moving the figures in such a way that they would have been run over as the tank advanced into the position.

 

This not only does not seem to be a correct application of the rule but practically how can you place a vehicle model suspended over troop models and accurately move them out of the way? It would be awkward and contentious as you decided what the dividing line of the vehicle was and which models would be placed at the rear of the vehicle, sides and front based on a nearly impossible measuring situation.

 

Am I correct? Should the figures move as the tank advances into the position or should the tank run over them and then you move the figures? Meaning you suspend the tank in the air and try to figure out which models are under it and what the closet rout away would be. To me not only does the former seem to be clearly correct but also the only way of practically executing this movement with out creating contention between the players.

 

I seem to remember a GW Battle Report where a tank shock was used to push a unit off an objective when the unit did not break. This is a very viable, tactically realistic and some times game winning tactic. This is why I find the correct application of this rule important.

 

I really need to get a pretty solid answer as to the way the community as a whole and TOs are playing this. In my experience it is being done my way. How about you?

 

-STUCARIUS-

[SeattleDV8]

The reason this is important is that a good friend and gaming partner feels you pick up the tank place it on top of the unit and move the figures away. As if the vehicle never actually moves progressively across the table. Even if that means moving the figures in such a way that they would have been run over as the tank advanced into the position.

 

Asd strange as it seems, your friend is 100% correct.

Nothing in the rules state that you move models from the vehicles path, only the models that would end up under the vehicle are moved.

As to the Tank Shocking to move the unit off of an objective, remember that a unit failing their Ld test have to Fall Back and the Vehicle will contest the objective even if they pass the test.

[DuncanSpence]

First suggestion is never to show the rules to a Lawyer, Technical Author or anyone with a language degree who is more interested in the quality of the writing than actually playing the game - they will destroy them - we all know that.

 

The rules are not targeted at that audience, they are targeted at teen and pre-teen readers who are barely aware of tense and have no idea about active and passive language - they just want to play the game.

 

Simply do what the rules ask you to do, and your friend suggests, work out the final position of the tank, yes by holding it above the unit it is Shocking if you want to, and by eye identify the models that are underneath in any way (if there is any doubt simply press down firmly with the tank - the broken models are the ones that need to be moved :o ), judge which side of the hull they are closest to and whether the model will still be in coherency when moved and move them in that direction by enough to be at least one inch away. If it turns out that there are several options all of which result the same distance of movement, then you get to chose.

 

If you want fluff - models that end up behind the tank can be considered to have laid down to let the tank pass over (Star Wars - Ep1), run over the top (Jackie Chan in just about every movie I've seen), or jumped into the arms of the sergeant as the tank went past (Scooby Doo).

[Frosty the Pyro]

indeed, though those in the path need to make a moral check and may be forced to fall back, if they pass and the vehicle does not stop on top of them, they are assumed to return to their exact previous positions once the vehicle has passed. They are only moved if the vehicles final position would prevent this (aka on top of em).