First ever BT game over, next up Tyranids

[Arne Anka]

Hello all!

 

My first ever full 1500p game with my Black Templars and a fine result it was. My opponent was an experienced Imperial Guard player, while I've only a couple of games with my Chaos Space Marines under my belt.

 

Some questions and arguments popped up during the game, I hope someone can help me with the questions that are in bold letters, and also, I'd really appreciate comments and advice on what I did good or wrong during this battle, and/or my list for this type of opponent. I thank you in advance!

 

My list was roughly like this (I'm typing this from work :) )

 

Marshal, twin claws, melta bombs, iron halo

Emperors champion with accept all challenges

Reclusiarch, bolt pistol, power fist, melta bombs

 

Crusader squad 1:

8 initiates; ccw + bp, power fist+bp, flamer

3 neophytes; bp+ccw, shotgun, bolter

in a LRC

 

Crusader squad 2:

7 initiates; ccw+bp, power fist +bp, melta gun

2 neophytes;bp+ccw, shotgun

in a drop pod with Deathwind launcher

 

Crusader Squad 3:

5 initiates, bolter, missile launcher

 

Venerable Dreadnought, twin lc, missile launcher, Tank Hunter

 

2x Attack Bikes, multimelta

 

His list was something like this;

 

2x Leman Russ, hull lc, sponson hvy bolters

Griffon hvy mortar carrier

Hellhound

Chimera with flamer turret and hull mounted flamer

Senior command squad, missile launcher

Junior command squad, las cannon

3 infantry squads, hvy bolter

3 x mortar teams

penal legion squad

veteran infantry squad (had some special weapons, but didn't get the chance to see them, see below)

Sentinel, multi-laser

 

Pregame:

I brought some anti-tank weapons along as I'd seen him play some weeks back when he had a lot of armour, also the attack bikes and dreadnought was assigned as tank-killer. Squad no. 1 along with marshal and EC went in the LRC, squad no.2 and the chaplain went in reserve in the drop pod, to be dropped as close to the tanks as possible. Squad no. 3 would be on foot, guarding any objective(s)

 

We played Dawn of War scenario from rulebook, he deployed everything apart from sentinel and veteran squad(both reserve), most of the vehicles hugging his table edge (tanks in the centre flanked on one side by the hellhound and chimera, mortar squads and griffon on the other) with infantry and command squads in front of the vehicles. My LRC was deployed as far forward as possible opposite the tanks, with the dread to the left and squad 3 behind. Attack bikes on the far left and as far forward as possible.

 

Turn 1:(Night)

He went first but didn't manage to spot any of my units during the night turn. All 4 mortar wepaons scattered out of harms way. BTW, only thing he moved forward was the penal squad and the flamer-chimera.

 

My round, and I drive the LRC fast forward, popping smoke, the dread moves forward and tries to spot the chimera, which he manages but both the twin las cannon and missile launcher fail miserably to do anything apart from stunning it. Attack bikes turbo-boost forward, and squad 3 secures my one objective, about 20 inches from the penal squad.

 

Turn 2:

He continues to move the chimera and the penal legion squad(also running them) forwards, all other units stay put. He starts pumping las cannon and missile launchers into the LRC without any luck. All 4 mortars snipe at squad 3 and luckily, all either miss or are out of range by an inch or so (the few inches I moved them during turn 1 was enough to save them). The 2 Leman Russ tanks turn and fire all available weapons at my 2 attack bikes, killing one with a battle cannon shot and wounding one with a heavy bolter. He then claimed I couldn't fire the multimelta on this bike, as it was down to 1 wound meaning only the rider being left to fire the bolters. My argument was that I could fire all weapons so long as there were remaining wounds. Anyways, we agreed to roll a die and the bike died.... What do you guys think, was I right or wrong?

 

My round and squad 1 emerges from the LRC, firing the flamer (foolishly) on the nearest squad, killing 4 guardsmen without breaking them, while I detach the two heroes and they move towards the infantry squad on the left. The Venerable Dread moves forward and fires all weapons on the flamer chimera, destroying all its weapons, but leaving it free to roam. Squad 3 moves the necessary inches out of all mortar range. The LRC fires its multimelta and assault cannons at the nearest Leman Russ, destroying the battle cannon and immobilising it.

Assault phase and my marshal and champion assault and chop up one of his infantry squads, while squad 1 easily dispatches another squad. Things turned sour when I realised it had been better to have been locked in combat as this meant both the heroes and the squad was open to fire next turn.

 

Turn 3:

Yeah, and the ;) came down :)

His sentinel pops out from reserve on to my left table edge and shoots my dread in the back with his multilaser - manages to cause a glancing hit - rolls a 6 which would have meant an immobilisng result. Since it's a Venerable Dread, I ask him to roll again, he rolls another 6, so the dread is stuck! He claims that such a result means he cannot even pivot, but is stuck facing that way - is this right?

Penal legion and weaponless chimera continue towards my objective, "luckily" he moves the Hellhound forward, leaving a nice gap between the mortars and the fully functioning Leman Russ, trying to fry squad 1 but misses. All remaining command/infantry squads either open fire on squad 1 or the 2 heroes, along with all remaining guns from Leman Russ' and mortars. The result is carnage, but the 2 characters survive with only a wound inflicted on the champion. Squad 1 loses 7 members, and is only 4 members strong now. They zeal forward towards one of the command squad, as my opponent claims it's only possible to make one zeal move per shooting phase, regardless of the number of units firing(and causing casualties) on it - can this be right? I thought the way zeal work is that you move forward each time a different unit fires and causes losses on my unit??

 

My round 3 and the Drop Pod finally arrives, landing smack in the middle of the Hellhound and the damaged Leman Russ. The squad and chaplain pops out and a melta shot destroys the Hellhound! the Deathwind launcher disappoints, only causing one kill on the junior command squad. The Ven Dread is stuck facing the main front, so he fires all weapons at the fully functioning Leman Russ, but although the las cannon shot penetrates and the krak missile glances - all I manage (even with Tank Hunter) is to destroy the battle cannon and stun it.

My 2 heroes seek out the same Leman Russ as there are no more infantry within accessible range, and they destroy it with melta bombs and Black Sword in the assault phase. The remainders from squad 1 moves toward senior command squad and fries all but the medic and a power fist armed officer, both of whom dies in the following assault without losses to me. Squad 3 fires all weapons at the penal legion squad which have come close enough, killing all but two. The LRC turns about-face and move 6 inches forward, I fire the multimelta at the damaged chimera - destroying it and use the machine spirit to fire on the sentinel without luck.

 

Turn 4:

His Veteran squad tries to deep strike, from reserve, close to my objective, but scatter onto a piece of terrain and is destroyed after rolling on the mishap table. This meant that he would have real difficulties in winning whereas I was closing in on his objective which was defended by an infantry squad and a almost full junior command squad. His mortars lay their fire onto squad 2 which came out of the drop pod, kiling 3 as all templates hit home, while the rest of his infantry and command squad + remaining guns on the Leman Russ fire on either the characters or the 4 members of squad 1. They manage to inflict 7 wounds, all are saved. The last penal legion guy moves towards squad 3 and shoots for no result, while the sentinel, with the big back of the dread in his sights, manages to destroy it, all 3 shots penetrating, rolling 1, 1, and 6! I ask for the 6 to re-rolled and he rolls another 6....

 

In my round, I fire the missile launcher of squad 3 on the sentinel, avenging the loss of the dread by destroying it with a krak missile to its side. Not pleased by the loss of the dread, the LRC turns again and moves towards the last infantry squad, cutting down 4 members of that squad from bolter and ass cannon fire (would've been more but he had cover, and rolled a lot of 6'es), the machine spirit not doing anything this round with the multimelta. Squad 2 moves onto the mortar squad, while the chaplain moves in on the last Leman Russ. Both targets are destroyed in the resulting assault phase. My marshal and champion dispatches the junior command squad, while the 4 guys from squad 1 cuts down the last of the remainding enemy infantry with flamer, bolt pistol fire and assault. All he has left is the Griffon and one penal legion guardsman.

 

Turn 5:

He decides not to end this, and charges squad 3 with the lone legionnaire, not achieving anything but death. The Griffon firing one last time on the 4 guys from squad now controlling his objective, missing and scattering away.

 

In my round the chaplain assaults and destroys the Griffon, while the other units consolidate the battlefield and amke sure I control all objectives. The game ends.

 

All in all, I can see that I made some mistakes and also, I will be careful with those Leman Russ as they can decimate with those battle cannons. I had some luck and some misfortune. I was disappointed with the Ven Dread and the attack bikes died too quickly. All the Templars performed well in close combat (well, against Imperial Guard I bloody expect so), maybe the Marshal with twin lightning claws was overkill. Maybe I should've brought a Predator and/or Land Speeders at the expense of the LRC, but then again it delivered the cargo and destroyed some units/vehicles without even getting a scratch (maybe due to being ignored by the opponent after turn 2)

 

I'd love your thoughts on this game, both good and bad.

 

 

 

Also, my next game is against Tyranids....

 

I've never played against 'Nids, nor do I know what type of units/tactics my opponent plays as I've never even met him.

Can someone out there give some advice on what to bring and not to bring to the battle? Any mistakes I should try to avoid, shooty army or should I enter into close combat, or not? I'm not afraid of losing or anything, I learn from mistakes, but I'd like not to get slaughtered too quickly ;)

[Marshal Wilhelm]

He then claimed I couldn't fire the multimelta on this bike, as it was down to 1 wound meaning only the rider being left to fire the bolters. My argument was that I could fire all weapons so long as there were remaining wounds. Anyways, we agreed to roll a die and the bike died.... What do you guys think, was I right or wrong?

 

The ABike is just like a character. Loss of wounds has no effect on combat output.

 

His sentinel pops out from reserve on to my left table edge and shoots my dread in the back with his multilaser - manages to cause a glancing hit - rolls a 6 which would have meant an immobilisng result. Since it's a Venerable Dread, I ask him to roll again, he rolls another 6, so the dread is stuck! He claims that such a result means he cannot even pivot, but is stuck facing that way - is this right?

 

Immobilised reads ".... may not turn in place...."

The Dread cannot pivot.

 

They zeal forward towards one of the command squad, as my opponent claims it's only possible to make one zeal move per shooting phase, regardless of the number of units firing(and causing casualties) on it - can this be right? I thought the way zeal work is that you move forward each time a different unit fires and causes losses on my unit??

 

1 RZ move taken at the end of the shooting phase, just like a regular morale check is taken once no matter the source of the casualties.

 

I think I have caught your questions ~ I found the bold hard to find amongst the text. Italics are easier for me to see, as are colours red,blue and green

I use the Dark Angels background, so that might be why....?

 

It's bed time now. Nighty night. ;)

[Hellios]

I've never played against 'Nids, nor do I know what type of units/tactics my opponent plays as I've never even met him.

Can someone out there give some advice on what to bring and not to bring to the battle? Any mistakes I should try to avoid, shooty army or should I enter into close combat, or not? I'm not afraid of losing or anything, I learn from mistakes, but I'd like not to get slaughtered too quickly B)

 

That really depends on what he takes... AAC is good as always... against some lists... I'm bad with names but the -1 I +1S is also worthwhile...

 

Remember most nids don't have frags so against those with a high I (genestealers) hiding in the bushes shooting them and letting them charge you can be the way to go... against lesser gribble such as gaunts charging with a unit with a lot of attacks is good.... Big monsters are like big monsters anywhere... you just need to hit them enough and hope they don't hurt you badly in return... middle sized nids depend on what they are armed with... I suggest you get the nid player to explain the weapons and rules he will be using before the game starts so you know what lash whips do and so on...

 

The biggest issue with nids is target priority... you want to shoot the big ones... normally because they look scary but this isn't always the best move... force multiplying bugs may be the first to go... those with psychic powers that improve other nids around them (although if you can knock out all the synapse do it!) and things like venomthropes which give 5+ cover saves to the units around them... if you are going to bolter some gaunts or missile a gigantofexosaurus so they get no armour saves kill the venomthrope first to deny them cover...

 

Zoanthropes... are the biggest threat to big tanks (along with tyranofexs but they are rareish atm...) with shooting from nids... it might be worth considering blessed hull to ignore the lance rule... but a waste if he takes no zoanthropes... one scary unit they have is called the Doom of Malantai (sp?)... your units in transports are safe from its power (according to the GW FAQ) and while it has a 3+ inv save shoot it with enough bolters and it will die... or even better if you can get it to fail a save from a s8 attack or higher you will cause instant death... they key is not to throw your whole plan away being overly worried about it.

 

Trygons and Mawlocs can cause a bit of a scare but shoot it with things like plasma guns (AP3 or better and the higher the strength the better) and it should go down... smakc it in combat if you need to...

 

Generally assume your ranged shooting will be better than theirs and that their combat units will either be... more numerous than you, more dangerous than you (individually) or tougher than you... but not all at once... and you need to respond differently to different ones.

 

Man I suck at giving advice :<

[Arne Anka]

Hi!

 

Thanks for the advice, guys!

 

Against forces like the Imperial Guard I played, do you think it would be better taking the vow that gives me a 6+ invulnerable save? I mean, I will probably defeat IG in close combat without the reroll from AAC, so getting an inv save against those nasty Hellhounds, Battle Cannon and whatever big gun they can stick on the Leman Russ, would be invaluable.

 

And for those 'nids, well it will be very interesting and hopefully a learning experience. Again, thanks for the advice, must get a peek at the Tyranids codex to learn more of their abilities.

 

 

Bedtime? It's soon time to get home from work here <_<

[Mac_Atk]

Against forces like the Imperial Guard I played, do you think it would be better taking the vow that gives me a 6+ invulnerable save? I mean, I will probably defeat IG in close combat without the reroll from AAC, so getting an inv save against those nasty Hellhounds, Battle Cannon and whatever big gun they can stick on the Leman Russ, would be invaluable.

 

Absolutely NOT! The 5th edition rules, your cover saves are 4+. Taking this vow of which you speak, means you get no cover saves, huge disadvantage.

I've found only two vows useful: AAC, preferred enemy against the enemy army and the +1S, -1I, which gives your guys a little more power when hitting against either an opponent you can't beat their I value (eldar), or you're going to be striking first regardless (necrons).

[Marshal Laeroth]

Seems I've been beaten to the punch. Marshal Wilhelm's answers are the correct ones, so I won't reiterate them. You got shanked on the first argument, but the others your opponent was correct.

[Chaplain Reikert]

As a Nid player, there are several weakness's to keep in mind.

 

Many of the Nids multi-wound non-monstrous models are toughness 4, so hitting those squads with Str 8 weaponry can be a huge return, and when combined with the next point is often devastating.

 

Besides Zoanthropes, Nids have no Invuln saves, meaning low AP, High Str weapons are the order of the day. Anything that ignores armor is going to devastate them. Power fists hidden in squads are most melee Monstrous Creatures worst nightmares.

 

A note on Armor, besides the Tyrannofex and the Hive Tyrant w/ Armoured shell, no other Nid has a 2+ save.

 

Hit the force multipliers first, if you can see a way to easily bring down the Synapse web, do it. Watch out for Boneswords, they'll shred your independent characters. If there's a Mawloc in reserve, watch out. That large blast can be devastating.

 

One final note, if your opponent takes DeathLeaper, then your overall leadership will go down due to the "It's after me!" Special Rule.

 

That's all I could think of. Good luck, bugs can be tough to bring down.

[Messanger of Death]

Even if you have already had your first game against Tyranids the following links will come in handy. Kirby, from the Pinktastic blog, has got a series going where he looks at Armies in 5th Edition. He has included Tyranids in this series...

Tyranids Part 1 - Anti-tank

Tyranids Part 2 - in your face!

Tyranids Part 3 - Midfield Core

Tyranids Part 4 - Utility Units

Tyranids Part 5 - HQ and Synapse

Tyranids Part 6 - Summary

 

I strongly recommend you also have a look at his other articles which examine Tau, Orks and Blood Angels as well as basic things such as Target Priority. AbusePuppy from Warseer and the Pinktastic blog also has a series of posts that review the Tyranid codex...

Tyranids Review Part 1: Overview

Tyranids Review Part 2: The HQs (and Introduction)

Tyranids Review Part 3: Elites (the ones you care about)

Tyranids Review Part 4: Troops

Tyranids Review Part 5: Da Fast Onez

Tyranids Review Part 6: He's Not Heavy Support, He's My Brother

Tyranids Review Final: Wrap Up and List Building

 

Knowing your enemy is an important part of being a competent general in 40K. But reading reviews is only part of it. Playing the game will be a great learning experience. It will be a baptism of fire and blood for your Black Templars. Try and build balanced all-comer lists. That way your relying less on tailored lists and more on your own skills as a general. Practise makes perfect.

 

Happy Hunting Brother!

 

Messanger

[wooday_218]

I've fought Nid's plenty in 4th edition, it can be hard to work out the worst threat i.e the monsterous creatures or the swarms but dont under estimate the little guys, they can tie you down till harder hitting units get into the assualt and then your in trouble, my advise counter charge and gang up on units.

good luck! :)