Grimnar's Meltapod?

[Glimpse the Void]

I recently dropped 4 Multimeltas out of a drop Pod with the great wolf for the first time. It was a 1.5k point game against templars. It was an epic failure. I was curious to hear from those with longer fangs to see if you have had any positive or negative experiences. At this point, I am hesitant to try it again.

[Kanis]

I think we'll need more information than that lad. What kind of situation was it? Like, where were they dropped? What was the target, etc? I'm sure it could work well, but only hearing "it was an epic failure" doesn't tell us much. :huh:

Best of luck in your future battles, brother!

[Glimpse the Void]

I am mostly looking to hear about the general experiences of others.

 

I dropped my pod within 12 inches of a landraider and a rhino/razorback type transport. I split fire and only got the lesser of the 2 transports. The landraider then unloaded it's psychotic close combat squad and proceeded to wreck my face. Logan took alot of them with him, but they had furious charge and got there hits in at initiate 5.

 

It was one of those capture/control missions. I was hoping that I could stop them from advancing on my objective and then drop the pods of terminators I had in reserve on his. I ended up having to bring my whole force to my side when i couldn't stop his transport and fight for a draw.

 

this was the 2nd game I played with my wolf wing. It's all terminators and the long fangs. I had one melta pod, and one group of missile launchers. There was a rune priest and 3 squads of terminators in drop pods. I'm sure the list itself needs some tweaking. I'm still trying to piece it together. This was my 2nd game in 5th edition and with space wolves.

 

 

So far, I have lost to blood angels and drew this game against templars.

[NTFH]

I would present the conclusion that you didn't put enough emphasis on messing up the land raider.

But even in destroying the landraider, you were actually still setting yourself up for nasty fight.

If the landraider exploded, you'd have free str4 hits, but then still need to wound em... and then

there saves... and they havea good chance of making thier saves.

 

You were bold but lady luck, and a bunch of termies, were not so friendly.

This may have been a case where you wanted to pick your target more carefully.

Use the Logan and Long fang combo to draw enemy units away from thier intended destination and stack

the odds better in your favour. Just because long fangs can split fire, doesn't mean they always have to.

Swinging at a landraider like that is bound to bring the assault down on them.

 

Situation and luck will dictate. You were fighting BTs who have some extremely assault oriented builds.

Ditto on BAs.

[The_Betrayed_Spacewolf]

its a foolish plan unless you bringing serious back up.

 

logan no matter how awesome he is along with a small long fang squad (6 marines is small) will not hold off an army. you have the chance to kill 2 vehicles no assault ability and will be at the guns of his entire army.

[krewl]

The idea is that you drop a pod with melta guns and kill stuff from up close.

 

Doing that you should know that meltapodding is basic ally a suicide tactic. You drop, destroy something and hope you live another turn to cause more havoc... Emphasis on hope.

 

So you have to make sure what you do is usefull, in other words, make your points back, or disrupt your enemy enough to make something of his worthless the rest of the game. (like a landriader full of assault termies and a character for example, which will eat your podded guys, but walk afterwards...)

 

So, add dakka:

Drop 5 multimelta guys... not 4. You are spending LOGAN (and a pod) so over 300 points to get those MM there where they can shoot, what is 25 points more for an increased chance at a pen. hit? You're skimming 25 points at the wrong spot. Sometimes you drop and want something utterly dead, so perhaps get more shots in even.

 

E.g. a cyclone terminator (possible even with a combi melta), you can then choose to add 1 more meltashot OR 2 krak missiles, and hey, bonus powerweapon in your squad. You could even add Arjac and drop a bazzillion points :P but you'd be nuts at 1500 points. Adding a meltagun to the sarge is also an option. if he shoots you will lose split fire but add one more S8 ap1 shot. could be very usefull in downing e.g. a trygon or a scary tyrant. If that's the difference between it still charging you or dropping it dead it will save more then the points invested.

 

2nd, that was a wrong choice in splitting fire. a rhino is 35 or 50 pts, a LR is 250.. and the odds at a meltashot killing AV1 14 are still slight. With 6 meltashots, I'd take 4 on the raider and 2 on the rhino. With only 4 you need focus.

 

My personal opinion is that a loganpod needs either missile launchers, as the range gives you flexibility to operate alone and also deploy defensively sometimes, or you drop multimelta's, so you want to be in 12" meaning rapid fire and assaults come your way.

So you'd need to drop the pod with more pods (In essence building the army arround that pod.) drop one pod with 4 combimeltagun Wolfguard (Suiciders) to open the raider, and the loganpod next to it to wipe survivors. One pod with 4 combimelta WG add's about 120 points, but it saves you your loganpod contents as they can shoot up the uberunit that would have dropped them next turn.

 

These are all just examples meant to get you thinking, a loganpod is (Because of logan) to expensive for a trick gimmick. If you drop and kill one thing it's not enough, as you can't find one target thats worth 400 to 500 points. (It's not a doom of malantai you just drop and see what it causes and giggle like a schoolgirl.) Just a few points spent supporting the logandrop make it several times more efficient and stops you from dropping 500 points for one tank kill and a then rolling over.

 

My loganpod looks like this:

6 Long fangs, 5 Missile launchers, 1 WG in TDA with cyclone missile launcher. (And duh logan.)

 

Not good against AV14, but 7 missiles are great for rear armour drops and shots. As I have more more pods I can also delay their arrival to get a better shot. not as in your face, but they tend to stay alive most games, and I imagine a lot longer then when they are dropped in 12" of the enemy.

 

So in short, either go all the way drop podding and support logan & the meltaboys or switch to missile launchers. :)

[ironking]

You were fighting BTs who have some extremely assault oriented builds. Ditto on BAs.

 

Now correct me if I'm wrong... I thought the WHOLE POINT of a SW army was that they were mental assaulty / cc freaks. It seems that GW released Codex SW and then thought, "Hey, lets take everything that makes SW players happy and give it to EVERYONE else, but wait, we can also screw them and give everyone else better equipment and abilities while we're at it... har har har!".

 

Now I'm not saying that there shouldn't be a modicum of balance, but the idea is that each army should have their own unique strengths AND weaknesses. Seems like a lot of the other armies and getting stronger and losing their weaknesses leaving the poor old Sons of Russ standing in the middle of the battle ground wondering what in the name of the Allfather just happened.

 

I'm almost regretting deciding on a SW army - but its too late to cancel my order as it has been dispatched and hopefully on its way here - I said ALMOST... they are just too cool to really regret.

[Coverfire]

Back in the old Eye of Terror campaign when the 13th Company could gate their Long Fangs, the meltagun combo

seemed to work quite well. I don't see why it can't now using drop pods;

 

If you are wanting to keep this tactic, put a Wolf Lord or Battle Leader in TDA with Wolf Guard TDA in to absorb

retaliation. Put Logan with your missle launchers giving them relentless instead relying on the Meltaguns 2D6 to penetrate

armour.

 

How many drop pods are you deploying? and what other units are you fielding?

 

If you drop your Long fangs, a Dreadnought and a squad of Terminators close enough to reinforce each other

then you might find life a little easier. The rest of your company can be deployed where pockets of resistance is weakest

as their force attempts to react to your plan, or reinforce where needed.

 

I would relying on Wolf Guard Terminators, I would also try and see if PA works for you, but I have yet to try a

Logan Heroes army list.

 

 

Now correct me if I'm wrong... I thought the WHOLE POINT of a SW army was that they were mental assaulty / cc freaks.

 

Not entirely accurate. Space Wolves were suppose to be masters of close range combat. Using packs much like real wolves

would to ambush and disrupt our enemies. We have always been hard and fast hitting but can't last the distance against

a specialised close combat army such as Khorne, Blood Angels or Black Templars if we try to out muscle them. Against

that type of force we have to use smart tactics, though if you wanted too you could just bring Thunderwolves to the table.

[Wysten]

You were fighting BTs who have some extremely assault oriented builds. Ditto on BAs.

 

Now correct me if I'm wrong... I thought the WHOLE POINT of a SW army was that they were mental assaulty / cc freaks. It seems that GW released Codex SW and then thought, "Hey, lets take everything that makes SW players happy and give it to EVERYONE else, but wait, we can also screw them and give everyone else better equipment and abilities while we're at it... har har har!".

 

Now I'm not saying that there shouldn't be a modicum of balance, but the idea is that each army should have their own unique strengths AND weaknesses. Seems like a lot of the other armies and getting stronger and losing their weaknesses leaving the poor old Sons of Russ standing in the middle of the battle ground wondering what in the name of the Allfather just happened.

 

I'm almost regretting deciding on a SW army - but its too late to cancel my order as it has been dispatched and hopefully on its way here - I said ALMOST... they are just too cool to really regret.

 

When I read the Codex, while they are good at close combat, I thought their flexability was their great advantage. Blood Angels and Black Templars are much more Close Combat orientated then Space Wolves in exchange for something else.

 

We lose heavy weapons on everything but the long fangs in order to have the best tactical, midrange and probably the cheapest marines in the game. That can counter charge right into any assault. We have scouts which can drop anywhere on the board and the ability to stick really nasty weapons into our squads. This is further supported by Thunder Wolves that can really support a grey hunters within their optimal range. So really, we are the masters of midrange combat, we can shoot them in the face with bolters then assualt them when they try and do the same to us, or Pistols to assualt them. While we are good in a ruckus, we were also gifted with cunning, the ability to chose the ground we fight on.

 

Blood Angels gain price and often lose numbers to gain toughness and extreme quickness. No one can go faster then them, but are generally of smaller number. They also rely heavily on the charge. Their loss was in their flexability.

 

Templars are close combatants with a huge amount of rugged toughness. Their squads can be massive and they get closer with every injury. They have reduced long range efficently.

 

Trying to get extremely assualty with Orks or BA (Depends on build, though can be benfical to charge first) or Templars is just asking for a pounding, our ability allows us to have abilitys in most areas which gives us the ability to fight tactically to deny them their strengths. I doubt dropping a 300 point drop pod in the middle of very Zelious Themplars would be that favourable against them. >_<;

[krewl]

Now I'm not saying that there shouldn't be a modicum of balance, but the idea is that each army should have their own unique strengths AND weaknesses. Seems like a lot of the other armies and getting stronger and losing their weaknesses leaving the poor old Sons of Russ standing in the middle of the battle ground wondering what in the name of the Allfather just happened.

 

This made me laugh out loud quite a bit..

 

You do realise that those poor poor neglected Space wolves have ahem;

- The only Marine cavalery unit with base S5 and T5

- Base wargear on troops that gives 2 attacks and a Ld test for another even if charged, lets not get started on the options..

- great psychic powers

- Better then the old chaos lord characters (E.g. Wolf mount, + sage of the warrior born = lord of choppy death!)

- best psychic blockers in the game, and Njal even makes them look like n00bs.

- Super firesupport in Long Fangs

- More stuff, read the codex!

 

I could go on, but this is just so out of place.. SW are great in this codex edition, appart from the chance of getting blinded by the bling and overspending on gear ending with to little guys, I'd say SW have no real weakpoint in the army list.

 

Besides the SW codex is brand new, no other army lost any of "Their Weaknesses" since you got this armybook. Only Blood angels have a newer dex and I'd say they are on par or even a very slight bit less powerfull compaired to what wolves can bring to the table.

 

So unless you actually do not play wolves, I'd say rejoice, Wolves are currently top tier, and rawk your socks off. Anyone claiming otherwise needs lessons on list building and playing to start learning how to win, cause the wolves offer all the tools!. (And as a side note, I am primarily a Dark Angels player, I just swapped to wolves for the Death/wolfwing/loganwing, so I'm not even biased)

 

@ the topic starter. Please tell more about your list as the previous poster detailed, we can give much better advice knowing what you play. You said you play a loganlist (as do I) so I'm always curious what others make of it.

[Ven.Dread Greatclaw]

If you really, really, really need that suicidal drop pod to take out a landraider you could put together 5 plain powerarmoured Wolfguards with combimeltas!

Aim the drop pod dead on his landraider. You will probably scatter a few inches but still should be able to deploy close enough to let all those 5 melta guns take out a few large chunks from his landraider at short range. And all that for a measly 150pts. Its all just a trade off. The 5 WG will probably be eating init 5 blades a die the next round, but suicide missions never end well! 5 melta guns should deliver 4 hits and at that range 4 penetrating hits. 4 penetrating hits of melta +1 should be enough to end the raider dead in its tracks and let the poor sods footslog. If you manage to drop the pod to the front or side of the raider you could even try the sneaky way of blocking the door on one of the sides as you tear him up. That way when he is leaving his trashed vehicle he doesnt have enough spare room to disembark the models not able to fit within 2" of the door is destroyed!!!

 

I dont see the point in dropping long fangs with multimeltas and Logan. They are both extremely expensive. Bad in CC and on top of that sacrificing a n expensive HQ to get relentless and earning 8" of short fire range when you probably will be withing 6" anyway. Why not deploy the long fangs on the table with Logan and walk and fire multimeltas if you really think it's a good plan?

 

I think I can calculate 5+ ways to eliminate a landraider in turn one or two without using an expensive HQ like Logan just for his special skill giving relentless. Thats the beuty of our Space Wolves. We can use almost anything to accomplish our missions.

[TiguriusX]

I am mostly looking to hear about the general experiences of others.

 

I dropped my pod within 12 inches of a landraider and a rhino/razorback type transport. I split fire and only got the lesser of the 2 transports. The landraider then unloaded it's psychotic close combat squad and proceeded to wreck my face. Logan took alot of them with him, but they had furious charge and got there hits in at initiate 5.

 

It was one of those capture/control missions. I was hoping that I could stop them from advancing on my objective and then drop the pods of terminators I had in reserve on his. I ended up having to bring my whole force to my side when i couldn't stop his transport and fight for a draw.

 

this was the 2nd game I played with my wolf wing. It's all terminators and the long fangs. I had one melta pod, and one group of missile launchers. There was a rune priest and 3 squads of terminators in drop pods. I'm sure the list itself needs some tweaking. I'm still trying to piece it together. This was my 2nd game in 5th edition and with space wolves.

 

 

So far, I have lost to blood angels and drew this game against templars.

You need to have target selection in mind before you place your first DP. Your opponent must have heavy armor or heavy transports or it isn't worth dropping nearby with the melta pod.

 

When facing heavy transports (i.e., LRs) think of the melta pods as the can openers. It is their job to pop open the vehicle and expose the troops inside. However, you must never forget that a melta pod with no backup will almost always die to the contents of the transport they blow up. They are not built for assaults. Melta pods need an infantry killing squad to finish the job. I prefer a DP with 5 or so combi-plasmas for that role.

 

In your battle you should have focused fire on the LR. Maximum return for the points invested. If you blew up the LR you knocked out a major component of your opponents army list. If you alpha striked his elite unit inside you would have been close to victory.

 

To be brutally honest, it was an absolute waste to fire MM at the Rhino. This looks even worse tactically because you also had a RP and missile LFs that can handle rhinos perfectly fine.

 

If you know you are facing an assault army you can also consider putting your RP in the infantry killing DP as well. If he casts MH you may be able to focus fire on the assault unit before it ever reaches combat.

 

Good luck in your next few matches. I would love to hear how they go as you improve.

 

Go show em what a Logan list can do!

[Karack Blackstone]

If this were me and I had the models and money to get it...

 

4 LRCs on the table, one dedicated to the unit in it.

 

4 packs of 7/8 WG with mixed load as need be.

 

Logan and a few others, maybe a couple WPs with Preferred Infantry for mini-death stars with WC's and Hammers/Fists.

 

That's me.

 

Your Meltapod, while an interesting concept would seem to have been best done with 4/5 MM shots on one target, with Logan giving his Relentless rule. All in all, it's a suicide mission if you don't learn to do it right, but the point I want to make here is that if you like it, have the firepower and bodies nearby to save them, or drop nearer to your lines if you're able to. This is the Great Wolf, losing him isn't going to be something small, overall.

 

Remember that as you learn, you will make mistakes, and in time you will start to see how to adjust for them. Don't take losing the unit once as a sign to not use it at all. Sometimes it's worth it to learn, and the experience just bit you a bit hard. Other than that, you did a great thing by trying a variation of what you can do. For future reference sometimes not splitting fire is the way to go. You may only get one, but if you do, what's inside has to be picked up as well, somehow.

[Requiem of the Wolf]

In general,as they said...if you are going to have a suicide squad. you put 5 Wolf Guard in power armor,one Combi Melta and one Combi Plasma each.

 

you spend 175 points...and you either get 5 melta gun shots to pop a Land raider or Excorcist or Leman Russ. Also you can use it to give 10 AP 2 rapid fire shots at a high point squad,or Independant Character or giving a Blood Angel Demon Prince the hard goodbye.

 

You build your list,around not having those 175 points. You use those 175 points to take out something your Enemy IS basing his battle plan around. This way, not only is your battleplan not affected, his is affected badly.

 

If you are going to use Logan,Put him in the Long Fang Squad and have them footslog with Lascannons or Missile Launchers. Giving them all Relentless is an amazing benefit...Don't throw him away on a suicide mission. This way you can move them around to ensure the best firing vantages AND still keep shooting.

[Thunderhawk3015]

Relentless and moving every turn works much better.

 

My question here is why only 4 Multi-Meltas. If your going to do that you need to have all 5 + a Wolf Guard rocking a combi melta.

 

Even better 5 Wolf Guard with combi meltas and power weapons. Now you have the pop a tank trick but you can also maul his close combat units(assuming no furious charge).

[Hfran Morkai]

Anyone tried this similar technique but in Planetstrike? You don't need to buy a pod (but will keep them safe) and you need bunker busting goodness.

[Quillen]

I have used this with some success. I have also had 2 failers.

 

I run it with Logan and 2 Multi Melta and 2 Plasma cannons. A long Fang with Cyclone and Stormshield and power weapon and a rune priest.

 

You have Logan and the wolfgaurd for melee backed up by the Rune Priest. This will hose most things in melee. And then 32Meltas and cyclone can frag a tank while the 2 plasmas kill something you do not want assaulting you.

 

Then you move accross the board killing just about anything. They will usually die, but you have ruined the other players plans and he is usually playing catchup at that point.

 

Only time it failed in a big way, I forgot Logans Eternal warrior on Mephiston. So Mebroken took 2 wounds and killed him. When he should have lived.

 

 

But you want to do this with back up. And for a good reason. Like hitting an objective or making the other player turn around. You have to pick the spot and then make sure you kill what your after.