Rage USR

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

Grey, you are simply not listening and seeing your RAI as RAW. It is not.

 

It is written the unit moves as fast as possible towards the enemy. So you compare the start situation, and the end situation. Did the unit on a whole use their move to close the gap between them and the closest enemy pre-movement phase as fast as possible?

Yes, because I took the closest model and moved it in a direct line at it's max movement towards the closest enemy untill it reached it.

This follows your own description of what moving as fast as possible is. So if it is a 1 man unit, I completely fulfilled the Rage USR. We agree on that.

 

But, the DC is not a 1 man unit usually. Still, because of how I started my move the unit as a whole already fulfilled the USR. What I then do with my other 2-29 models does not matter as long as I keep unit coherency. The unit itself moved closer to the enemy unit so no matter what stuff you are pulling out (bad sportsmanship, adding 'all' to movement, etc..) the fact of the matter is the unit moved closer. Unless you can proove my unit did not move closer as fast as possible (which you cannot) you also cannot say I am cheating or not following RAW.

Heck, the case I am not following RAI is also hard, because if RAI was to always attack the closest enemy, why am I allowed to shoot and assault another unit?

[Kapitalist-Pig]

3) If maintaining distance is allowed a raging unit could simply decide to remain stationairy, or shuffle a half inch to the left.

 

None of wich is legal by RAW.

 

Acutally, you are not understanding the situation here. If my model is 4 inches away, which means by the end of my models movement they must be at max 1 inch away. Then if my unit moves around your unit and is 1 inch away of the closest enemy I have, first, moved towards the closest visable enemy, second as fast as possible, and thirdly not moved away from the closest enemy unit since my model is 1 inch away.

 

I feel that while your arguement can be made, and in a very convincing way. You have no base in saying that as long as I fullfil all parts of the USR Rage, that my movement must end. You do not control my models, and you do not control, how, when, and where my models go.

[SKeeM]

Grey, you are simply not listening and seeing your RAI as RAW. It is not.

 

It is written the unit moves as fast as possible towards the enemy. So you compare the start situation, and the end situation. Did the unit on a whole use their move to close the gap between them and the closest enemy pre-movement phase as fast as possible?

Yes, because I took the closest model and moved it in a direct line at it's max movement towards the closest enemy untill it reached it.

This follows your own description of what moving as fast as possible is. So if it is a 1 man unit, I completely fulfilled the Rage USR. We agree on that.

 

But, the DC is not a 1 man unit usually. Still, because of how I started my move the unit as a whole already fulfilled the USR. What I then do with my other 2-29 models does not matter as long as I keep unit coherency. The unit itself moved closer to the enemy unit so no matter what stuff you are pulling out (bad sportsmanship, adding 'all' to movement, etc..) the fact of the matter is the unit moved closer. Unless you can proove my unit did not move closer as fast as possible (which you cannot) you also cannot say I am cheating or not following RAW.

Heck, the case I am not following RAI is also hard, because if RAI was to always attack the closest enemy, why am I allowed to shoot and assault another unit?

 

This is how rage works, you try and pull that crap on me and I smash 2-29 models and then dare you to tell me I was wrong. If you dont like the rage rule dont play with death company. They have it and you know how it works. You get ws5, FC and FNP for 20 points a model. Thats a great deal. Oh yea they have the USR RAGE as a drawback. Thats the way it is like it or not.

[Grey Mage]

Grey, you are simply not listening and seeing your RAI as RAW. It is not.

 

It is written the unit moves as fast as possible towards the enemy. So you compare the start situation, and the end situation. Did the unit on a whole use their move to close the gap between them and the closest enemy pre-movement phase as fast as possible?

Yes, because I took the closest model and moved it in a direct line at it's max movement towards the closest enemy untill it reached it.

This follows your own description of what moving as fast as possible is. So if it is a 1 man unit, I completely fulfilled the Rage USR. We agree on that.

 

But, the DC is not a 1 man unit usually. Still, because of how I started my move the unit as a whole already fulfilled the USR. What I then do with my other 2-29 models does not matter as long as I keep unit coherency. The unit itself moved closer to the enemy unit so no matter what stuff you are pulling out (bad sportsmanship, adding 'all' to movement, etc..) the fact of the matter is the unit moved closer. Unless you can proove my unit did not move closer as fast as possible (which you cannot) you also cannot say I am cheating or not following RAW.

Heck, the case I am not following RAI is also hard, because if RAI was to always attack the closest enemy, why am I allowed to shoot and assault another unit?

Quite simply:

 

By the same logic as if one model moves closer they all do, if a single model moves farther away they all do.

 

And if they move away they are not fulfilling Rages requirements.

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

Grey, you are simply not listening and seeing your RAI as RAW. It is not.

 

It is written the unit moves as fast as possible towards the enemy. So you compare the start situation, and the end situation. Did the unit on a whole use their move to close the gap between them and the closest enemy pre-movement phase as fast as possible?

Yes, because I took the closest model and moved it in a direct line at it's max movement towards the closest enemy untill it reached it.

This follows your own description of what moving as fast as possible is. So if it is a 1 man unit, I completely fulfilled the Rage USR. We agree on that.

 

But, the DC is not a 1 man unit usually. Still, because of how I started my move the unit as a whole already fulfilled the USR. What I then do with my other 2-29 models does not matter as long as I keep unit coherency. The unit itself moved closer to the enemy unit so no matter what stuff you are pulling out (bad sportsmanship, adding 'all' to movement, etc..) the fact of the matter is the unit moved closer. Unless you can proove my unit did not move closer as fast as possible (which you cannot) you also cannot say I am cheating or not following RAW.

Heck, the case I am not following RAI is also hard, because if RAI was to always attack the closest enemy, why am I allowed to shoot and assault another unit?

Quite simply:

 

By the same logic as if one model moves closer they all do, if a single model moves farther away they all do.

 

And if they move away they are not fulfilling Rages requirements.

 

No, it is not the same logic.. if the closest model in a unit takes a full move towards the closest enemy, the unit moved closer.. simple fact.

If a single model moved away as well, then the unit also moved away.. but it doesnt change the fact the unit also moved closer as fast as possible. You are mixing models with units Grey and you have been all this thread.

 

The fact is, the unit still moved as fast as possible to the closest enemy. it just ALSO moved away, but hey.. it still moved closer too so the rule was followed.

 

The rule does not say you may not, in no way, move away as unit. it just says that [despite any other aspects] the UNIT needs to move towards the enemy as fast as possible.

 

Guess what.. it did!

You cannot say the unit did not do it when a model in the unit did it. If one model does it, and the unit is coherent, then the whole unit did it.

 

I repeat again.. the rule doesnt say a model may not move away, it just says you always have to move closer as a unit as fast as possible.

 

Forcing one thing, does not take away the possibility to do the opposite in all cases. It's how rules in all forms; law, sports and gaming work.

[JamesI]

It might be stupid, but its accurate. If you dont like it then take it up with GW, or house rule it, but it doesnt change the current RAW.

 

Rage is a drawback, and its supposed to be. If it helps your assault move doesnt have to be at the closest enemy, nor does it have to be directly linear as long as the first two are between the closest models, as normal.

 

Actually by your interpretation it DOES hvae to be directly linear, if not then you are not moving towards the closest unit as fast as possible. A component part of your movement is necessarilly AWAY from the closest enemy...

 

... actually at a 90 degree angle directly away, wierd how vectors work, if its not linearly towards, part is direct and part is away... And to be silly, if you move in a circular orbit about the unit, you are actually accelerating towards the closest unit but not getting any closer...

Thankfully centripetal acceleration is not moving towards (big difference between accelerating towards something and moving towards it. Also, I think DC even with jump packs would have a hard time keeping up the velocity required to achieve a true orbit).

 

I think when we start breaking this into Vector mathematics, we've gone too far. I know very few of my opponents will have any idea what I'm talking about when I start using vectors to prove that I'm moving closer when not going directly closer.

[shinigami]

I confess i start feeling guilty for having brought the issue to this community in the first place. :)

But the topic hasn't been useless, after all.

 

Looks like "we" all agree on some important points.

First of all. If we are speaking about a dread, or any other rage affected single model unit, we all agree said unit must move straight to the nearest visible enemy at top speed. Reaching the 1' minimum distance from the enemy means the raged unit stops and loses any additional (or potential.. i don't know how to call it) movement not yet covered.

 

Same thing happens for "complex" units made of more than one model, for example the so discussed death company.

We all seem to agree that after reaching the 1' distance from the closest enemy unit, death company will stop and won't be allowed to perform any other movement, such as an "ORBITING" movement around the just reached enemy unit.

 

The still debated point is the so called "wrapping" around the enemy. This is not an actual "movement", but a particoular way of placing the models of the rage affected unit we have just moved.

There's disagreement about this specific point.

 

Well... I'll try to make it simple, in order to see if something happens to change about somebody's opinion on this specific issue. In other words. I'll just try to watch the issue from a different, and I hope more simple, point of view.

 

 

How do we ALL move our death company in order to make it close the closest enemy on the battlefield?

All of us seem to FIRST pick up the DC model CLOSEST to the enemy and move it in a straight line toward said enemy.

AND HERE COMES THE CENTRAL QUETION: After moving this first DC model as required by the rage rule, am I allowed to move ALL he other models of the DC unit as i want, always provided that I respect the unit cohesion?

 

My PERSONAL answer to this question is that YES, untill i respect the unit cohesion, and after I have moved my first model in a straight line toward the closest visible enemy (as required by the rage rule), I can place my other models as I want. This could even mean ( would it happen to be somehow userful) "wrapping around" the enemy unit I've just closed to, as long as i don't exceed the movement limit of each and every single DC model I am moving.

 

And on a side note (@SKeeM) I don't find it lame at all to arrange my DC models in the most advantageous way for me. It's not lame, and above all, not against the rules, at least those that i know myself. Being forced to move toward the closest visible enemy is a HUGE drawback in any case.

 

 

As usual, hope to have been at least understandable :S

And now... may the flames be unleashed!!! :D ( no, please!!!)

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

@shinigami

 

FLAAAAAAME!

 

But on a serious note.. Sorry for getting lost in the discussion for a few posts, but what you wrote is 100% what I agree with. Move closest model to closest enemy, and move everything else as long as you remain unit coherency is what I feel fulfills the Rage USR for multi-model units.

 

The exact way you describe it is how I see the rule and how I always play it as well.

[Morticon]

It seems everyone has weighed in their thoughts on this matter.

 

And its time to close this thread to avoid it getting much more heated.