Skirax Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 As we all know, the Primarchs were the figureheads of their Legions, and the Legion itself was molded in their shape. However, aside from their own personal Honour Guards, did any of them lead any Companies? This is more of a possibility with Russ than any others; not least because he was 'Great Wolf' and the Great Wolf supposedly always leads his former Great Company, as the centre of the Grand Annulus points to his Company at the time. So, if Russ didn't lead a Great Company, where would the Grand Annulus point? That is the main reason I can't think why he wouldn't have one. Does anyone have an answer? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/206603-of-leman-russ-and-companies/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simo429 Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 Did the whole great companies wheel not come about until after Russ left? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/206603-of-leman-russ-and-companies/#findComment-2464875 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adarul Greystalker Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 The Great Wolf takes as his the symbol of Russ himself, and is said, I believe, to serve as regent in the place of the true High King of Fenris, which is of course, Leman Russ. All this indicates that the Great Wolf is taking up a place that was once held by the Primarch, and I should think that that extends to the leadership of a great company as well. We may get more information with the release of a certain upcoming Horus Heresy novel, but for now, I'm certainly very inclined to believe that Russ may have had his own company. It's interesting to think about, anyway. Could the Space Wolves Legion have had an equivalent of the elite first companies that codex chapters employ, lead by the Primarch himself? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/206603-of-leman-russ-and-companies/#findComment-2464884 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted July 17, 2010 Author Share Posted July 17, 2010 To the above, and as an extent, could these be the true Wolf Brothers from which our only successor was formed? I've heard fleeting whispers and talking in the darkness of Russ' own brotherhood called the Varangi, but of their true nature I do not know. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/206603-of-leman-russ-and-companies/#findComment-2464933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 As we see currently, Grimnar will choose a company or wolf lord he currently holds in favor. I see no reason why that would not have been the same for Russ. If we look to the BL novels for any indication, those primarchs usually were joined by their 1st Company and 1st captain in battle but it seems clear that they could choose as they pleased. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/206603-of-leman-russ-and-companies/#findComment-2465253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 As we all know, the Primarchs were the figureheads of their Legions, and the Legion itself was molded in their shape. However, aside from their own personal Honour Guards, did any of them lead any Companies? This is more of a possibility with Russ than any others; not least because he was 'Great Wolf' and the Great Wolf supposedly always leads his former Great Company, as the centre of the Grand Annulus points to his Company at the time. So, if Russ didn't lead a Great Company, where would the Grand Annulus point? That is the main reason I can't think why he wouldn't have one. Does anyone have an answer? For what is is worth, I doubt that Russ had his own Great Company, but he certainly did have a group of retainers, bodyguard, trusted advisors, or companions - whatever you choose to call them. We know that he summoned his most favored retainers together at the Feast of the Emperor's Ascension in the year 197 after the Emperor was incarcerated within his Golden Throne. Of these, only Bjorn the Fell-Handed, the youngest, was left behind when they departed. It is far more likely that he simply commanded the Legion and fought when and where he wanted, with his retainers with him, while his appointed Wolf Lords commanded all of the Great Companies. Not only did Russ not lead a Great Company, I believe that Bjorn would not have either, or if he had it would have been before he was made one of Russ' companions. Very likely the tradition of electing a "Great Wolf" from among the current Wolf Lords occurred after Bjorn sustained his mortal wounds in combat, and his body was bio-engineered into a Dreadnought sarcophagus. After this transformation, it is likely that Bjorn continued to lead for a time, as it is said that, "within his metal cask Bjorn went to fight further battles over many centuries. Eventually his mind began to drift into unending sleep, for even mortal flesh and metal cannot live forever." However, at some point it became clear that a new leader for the Space Wolves would be required, and it was at this point that the current tradition began. Who knows when the Grand Annulus was even created, as it is unlikely that it existed when Bjorn walked with his Legion of 25,000 Space Wolves. I would assume that it was crafted soon after the first "Great Wolf" was elected after Bjorn's command passed on to whomever his successor was. I don't know what any of the Black Library books might say on the subject, as I don't bother reading those, but I can say with relative assurance that there are no indications in any of the actual 40K publications that Leman Russ lead his own company. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/206603-of-leman-russ-and-companies/#findComment-2465450 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 I went back to do a little more research on this and found that Bjorn was elected by the surviving Wolf Lords to be their leader exactly 7 years after the disapperance of Leman Russ; it was at this point that he was awarded the title "Great Wolf", and he would have been the first holding such title and position. It was at this point that Bjorn announced and launched the first "Great Hunt" to go seek out their Primarch. Also, "as the first Great Wolf he [bjorn] was instrumental in resisting the attempts of the newly created Administratum to force the Space Wolves to accept the dictates of the Codex Astartes, even going so far as to threaten to rebel if the Administratum persisted." V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/206603-of-leman-russ-and-companies/#findComment-2476800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 I went back to do a little more research on this and found that Bjorn was elected by the surviving Wolf Lords to be their leader exactly 7 years after the disapperance of Leman Russ; it was at this point that he was awarded the title "Great Wolf", and he would have been the first holding such title and position. It was at this point that Bjorn announced and launched the first "Great Hunt" to go seek out their Primarch. Also, "as the first Great Wolf he [bjorn] was instrumental in resisting the attempts of the newly created Administratum to force the Space Wolves to accept the dictates of the Codex Astartes, even going so far as to threaten to rebel if the Administratum persisted." V Whats the source? WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/206603-of-leman-russ-and-companies/#findComment-2476839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 I went back to do a little more research on this and found that Bjorn was elected by the surviving Wolf Lords to be their leader exactly 7 years after the disapperance of Leman Russ; it was at this point that he was awarded the title "Great Wolf", and he would have been the first holding such title and position. It was at this point that Bjorn announced and launched the first "Great Hunt" to go seek out their Primarch. Also, "as the first Great Wolf he [bjorn] was instrumental in resisting the attempts of the newly created Administratum to force the Space Wolves to accept the dictates of the Codex Astartes, even going so far as to threaten to rebel if the Administratum persisted." V Whats the source? WLK 2nd Edition Codex, of course, where all of the good stuff is. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/206603-of-leman-russ-and-companies/#findComment-2476855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 wow, i must have missed that in my copy. TO THE BATCAV...i mean my library! *edit: can i get page number? i am feeling lethargic at the moment...* WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/206603-of-leman-russ-and-companies/#findComment-2476859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 wow, i must have missed that in my copy. TO THE BATCAV...i mean my library! *edit: can i get page number? i am feeling lethargic at the moment...* WLK There are at least four different sections with Bjorn stuff spread throughout the book. I don't remember the exact page and my book is in the truck, I'm in bed on the iPhone, and it is raining out. I'm sure you'll find it with no trouble. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/206603-of-leman-russ-and-companies/#findComment-2476873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted July 31, 2010 Author Share Posted July 31, 2010 I love that our Great Wolf threatened to rebel and the Admistratum was scared of what we could do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/206603-of-leman-russ-and-companies/#findComment-2476960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykra Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 For what is is worth, I doubt that Russ had his own Great Company, He did have his own company in a roundabout way, it was the 13th who called themselves the Wolf Brothers, as in Brothers of Russ. Bulveye was appointed to lead the company when Russ became Wolf Lord but he always considered it his wolves. The entire company was formed from Russ' original followers on Fenris who he raised up to Space Marines when the Emperor came around. The 'rumor' that was dropped was that when he split it was to join back up with the 13th hunting in the Chaos realms. It was even hinted at (but never proven) that it was Russ himself leading the Wulfen against Abaddon. I don't know if this has been retconned or ignored, but it appeared in Wolf's Honor and the Heresy Anthology. I don't know what any of the Black Library books might say on the subject, as I don't bother reading those Yeah, it's always iffy with them. Some authors like Abnett or ADB write so well it's easy to take it as canon, but others...urgh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/206603-of-leman-russ-and-companies/#findComment-2481644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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