Lord Lee Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 Ok so I have 2 Chaos Space Marine units I got way back in 3rd ed that I found the other day and got to thinking about my favorite Chaos Legion. Looking in my games room I had a bunch of loyalist Marine Units and decided to put together a list and see what you guys thought before I started painting. So here it is: HQ: Cato Sicarius 200 HQ: Command Squad with Champion and 2 meltaguns. 150 Transport: Rhino 35. Troops: 10 men Tac Squad with power weapon, flamer and heavy bolter. 185 Troops: Telion with 4 men Scout Squad, sniper rifles and missile launcher. 135 Elites: Ironclad Dreadnought with meltagun and heavy flamer. 145 Transport: Drop Pod. 35 Heavy Support: Vindicator. 115 Total points: 1000 So the Command and Tactical Squads will be Chaos Space Marines and Sicarius will get the Sorcerers backpack with the hydra heads. So what I am asking is: Does this list fit the fluff? If not why not? And would you have any problem with playing against it? Lord Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 Looking in my games room I had a bunch of loyalist Marine Units and decided to put together a list and see what you guys thought before I started painting. (...) So what I am asking is: Does this list fit the fluff? (...) And would you have any problem with playing against it? If you like the idea, perhaps you might want to start painting without hearing my thoughts about it. As for your last question, if someone was taking a bunch of Chaos units and a bunch of loyalist units out of his case and explained that he uses the Codex Space Marines to represent his Alpha Legion, I would probably shrug and play him anyway. He would not score any points for playing a themed army or being faithful to the fluff or the army he chose, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lee Posted July 19, 2010 Author Share Posted July 19, 2010 The actual force would be fully paint as Alpha Legion and the only Imperial icons would be on the chests of the Scouts, as to fluff I thought since the Alpha Legion are not within the Eye that they would need to recruit just like normal Marines. I will give my reasoning for each unit: Cato Sicarius as a Legion Commander because of his special rules surprise attack (re-roll for seize the initiative) and battle-forged heros (gives 1 Tactical Squad a USR) Command Squad to represent his bodyguard and successors Scouts as new Legion recruits Tactical Squad with Infiltrate (from Sicarius Rules) as the basic Alpha Legion Marines The Ironclad, Drop Pod and Vindicator would represent new supplies provided by their agents (ie the agent contacts the Legion with info about supplies being delivered to a Loyal Chapter, the Alpha Legion sets up some traps and using their superior tactics make away with the new supplies) So the army I put on the table will not be 2 units of Chaos Marines with some Imperial allies it would be a well painted and converted Alpha Legion force (with conversions on the scouts and vehicles to bind the with the rest of the army) So my question is how is that not a reasonable representation of the Alpha Legion? Lord Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimz Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 Mate it sounds great. You may also want to consider a DH army with IG allies for cultists/operatives... I'm actually planning on making something extremely similar, using the loyalist codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 So my question is how is that not a reasonable representation of the Alpha Legion? Because they are not really described in the background to use Scouts and high level loyalist equipment, are they? Neither did they ever have those units in a previous army list. You probably could explain how an Alpha Legion warband possibly got a hold of such things, but you could just as easily explain how some Orks might have done that. Or how your DIY Space Marines Chapter has decided that the heavier Leman Russ Tanks are more suited to their personal style of warfare than the medium Predator Tanks, so they now use them. "Fluffy" is not anything you can explain in some contrived manner via warp magic or improbable chance. "Fluffy" is to stick to the established background. Worst of all, Chaos Marines do not have "ATSKNF". They never did, they most likely never will. It is the main distinguishing element between loyalists and traitor Marines. Loyalists are dedicated to the Emperor and to their Battle Brothers. They will not hesitate to sacrifice themselves for them. Chaos Marines fight for personal gains, they are not in the least bit interrested to sacrifice themselves for others. They are called "traitor Marines" after all. The clue is in the name. This is how Jervis Johnson had described Chaos Marines in the introduction of the 3rd Edition Codex Chaos Space Marines: "A Chaos Space Marine army is very similar to a normal Space Marine army: the bulk of its troops are elite and very tough, they wear excellent armour and are armed with a variety of devastating weaponry. The only real weakness of a Chaos Space Marine compared to his Imperial counterpart is that he has a (very sensible) desire to preserve his own skin and therefor does not benefit from the 'And They Shall Know No Fear' rule that prevents loyal Space Marines from running away." So anytime one attempts to play a Chaos Space Marine force according to a loyalist Codex, that reason alone means it will not be a fluffy representation. If you start adding exclusively loyalist units to the army it only gets worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lee Posted July 19, 2010 Author Share Posted July 19, 2010 Fair point Legatus on the atsknf rule, what would you suggest the above list (with the Chaos conversions) be best used to represent as I really like my converted Sicarius. Thanks Lord Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 He could just be a Chaos Lord. Unfortunately that is not a very exciting choice, currently. There are enough people here who think that using loyalist rules for Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, World Eaters, etc. is completely fine. They just have not posted yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lee Posted July 19, 2010 Author Share Posted July 19, 2010 Thanks for the input Legatus, it really does help, I am just trying to sound out the idea as I will need to choose what the force it realy soon, I want to take a new army when I visit my local (ie 2 1/2 hours away) 40k buddy on the 23rd of next month and have it fully painted (this will only be my second fully painted force) Anyway thanks for the honest hole poking on the fluff if you do it now the guys at the GW store can't do it latter :) Thanks Lord Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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