Is Mephiston too powerful?

[Corby]

This whole thing strikes me as... strange.

 

From a new player's stand point: I've been playing for 3 months, and I've been rocking Blood Angels for 6 weeks('Nid army is on hold until it gets the models it needs to run correctly). I really, really liked Mephiston but when I was at another site trying to get some information I was told Mephiston was crap. My main opponent is a Necron player so my Psyker nids had felt the sting of his Pariahs, and I'd seen what Shadow in the Warp did to the Eldar. Then I read the entry for Psychic Hood. I thought 'Ehhh... too much Anti-Psyker in 5e'. When making a choice for HQ Units I grabbed Dante.

 

Then last weekend I played in my first tournament and I saw another BA player rocking Mephistup. After he punched through my friend's Monolith and then decided to wreak havoc on the Pariahs. My jaw dropped. His jaw dropped. A few F bombs dropped. I felt the desire to get a Mephistup and he felt a desire to find a way to kill it. We were both impressed and horrified. That being said... a pack of Tyranid Warriors could kill him(Maybe Shrike would have a better chance because they could actually CATCH him). Bonesword+Lashwhip means no armor save and init 1. Heck, a pack of toxic Gargoyles could take him just because there are so many of them and he only gets 5 attacks a turn.

 

He's Superman: Incredibly powerful and nigh invulnerable... unless you have the right stuff and then he's a kitten. That being said, Superman's always at his best when Batman's there to counterbalance him.

 

 

Pariahs? :)

 

Why oh why would he use them? :lol:

 

But back on topic Mr. M has a fact factor associated with him amongst players I think , for being that flying Deathstar who will kill you outright if you make one mistake. I think that coupled with his impressive statline and psychic powers can throw a player off-guard and force them to change thier normal gaming mindset. Which could be attributed to why he gives people headaches. On the other hand however he is by no means as powerful as hype makes him. And most lists in the game should be able to deal with him with ease as long as they are aware of what he is capable of doing. Players pay a heavy price to take Mephiston , and certainly you hear of stories of Mephiston carving through whole armies. But I think such outcomes are only caused when the player changes his usual mindset of game play and thinks: 'I have to kill Mephiston'. Much like 2 lash Princes , Mephiston is becoming far easier to counter as people become more familiar with him.

[Wysten]

If anyone one Marine was to repersent the statlines of a Primarch, Mephiston would probably be right up on their level. The feats in his fluff and his battle pocess makes him sound a lot like that, to stand beside Sanginious as a equal as they slay demons. Thats how strong I think he is for a single figure.

 

Though of course, addaption can minimize his impact, just part of the skill is identifying which BA threat will do your head in the worst if it happened to make it to you.

[Captain Idaho]

I think the reason people feel Mephiston is over powered is because of 2 things. Firstly, he can essentially move as if equipped with a jump pack, making him horrendously quick. Secondly, he can hide reasonably well behind Rhino transports and other tanks that can move 24" a turn if need be.

 

These things mean a player will often struggle to neutralise him before he hits their army.

 

Most uber units cannot do that, so players are at a loss with how to beat him.

 

I think people need to know just how to beat an army that uses Mephiston, to get round the above. If they did then they would know that Mephiston isn't so over powered.

[Corby]

I think the reason people feel Mephiston is over powered is because of 2 things. Firstly, he can essentially move as if equipped with a jump pack, making him horrendously quick. Secondly, he can hide reasonably well behind Rhino transports and other tanks that can move 24" a turn if need be.[/b][/u]These things mean a player will often struggle to neutralise him before he hits their army.

 

Most uber units cannot do that, so players are at a loss with how to beat him.

 

I think people need to know just how to beat an army that uses Mephiston, to get round the above. If they did then they would know that Mephiston isn't so over powered.

 

Firstly the key words are 'CAN' and 'REASONABLY'. These are the things you need to exploit in order to take him down. Secondly is the lack of an invunerable save. This hurts him to the point that a single well cordinated round of shooting can bring him down with little or no problems. Or ( D6 Str 8 ap 1 rockets, For all you Sisters of battle fans out there). Any form of psychic defense can neutralises him effectively. Sure he may reach my lines and knocking out a tank in a round of combat, Providing he hits it since I've either moved up to 6" or up to 12" and even if he takes it out, the next turn I will happily turn my guns on the little Guy. There are several available counters for him in the current gaming scene. He is by no means unbeatable , but when used by a clever opponent he is dangerous and shouldn't be overlooked.

[lorider2]

These things mean a player will often struggle to neutralise him before he hits their army.

 

In 40k its very hard to neutralize something before it hits your army. If your only plan is that, its a serious risk. I find its far easier to neutralize a killer unit by feeding your opponent one thing, then countering it with others.

[Corby]

These things mean a player will often struggle to neutralise him before he hits their army.

 

In 40k its very hard to neutralize something before it hits your army. If your only plan is that, its a serious risk. I find its far easier to neutralize a killer unit by feeding your opponent one thing, then countering it with others.

 

 

Quoted for the truth.

[Captain Idaho]

These things mean a player will often struggle to neutralise him before he hits their army.

 

In 40k its very hard to neutralize something before it hits your army. If your only plan is that, its a serious risk. I find its far easier to neutralize a killer unit by feeding your opponent one thing, then countering it with others.

 

Indeed, that would be my preference too.

[Burningblood]

why does this keep coming up? Aren't there like 10 + other posts dealing with this subject?

Aren't there completely overpowered units in other codecies, like close combat/lash demon princes?

[Corby]

Yes but lashes are easy enough to counter these days. People still have difficultly dealing with Mr. M if such threads keeping popping up frequently it seems. Also as I've said aleady:

 

 

But back on topic Mr. M has a fact factor associated with him amongst players I think , for being that flying Deathstar who will kill you outright if you make one mistake. I think that coupled with his impressive statline and psychic powers can throw a player off-guard and force them to change thier normal gaming mindset. Which could be attributed to why he gives people headaches. On the other hand however he is by no means as powerful as hype makes him. And most lists in the game should be able to deal with him with ease as long as they are aware of what he is capable of doing. Players pay a heavy price to take Mephiston , and certainly you hear of stories of Mephiston carving through whole armies. But I think such outcomes are only caused when the player changes his usual mindset of game play and thinks: 'I have to kill Mephiston'. Much like 2 lash Princes , Mephiston is becoming far easier to counter as people become more familiar with him.

[Captain Idaho]

It's going to be a long road, but people will get used to him. It's just so hard for people to change their style or army. I can see my GT list might struggle with dealing with him, but then I can set a trap for him perhaps, as I have an idea... ;)

 

If it doesn't work, then I will learn from my mistakes.

 

Ironically, Mephiston will likely lose favour in many Blood Angels lists over time, when another fad comes out.

 

Is it worth creating a tactica so us Codex Marines can feel better about everything and whenever someone cries cheese you can put a link up.

[Blitzkreig]

I killed mephsiton before he even got into combat. Didn't have to focus additional fire towards him, didn't have to ignore other units. I just knew what I was doing when he showed up.

 

People who think he is Over-powered obviously just can't deal with a guy like Meph, keep calm and blow him up, easy as pie.

[Xephis]

I killed him with Khârn in CC...

 

So i don't think he is overpowered at all haha

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

why does this keep coming up? Aren't there like 10 + other posts dealing with this subject?

Aren't there completely overpowered units in other codecies, like close combat/lash demon princes?

 

This does come up quite often. Maybe this one should be stickied. :(

 

0b :(

[Ranwulf]

I killed him with Khârn in CC...

 

So i don't think he is overpowered at all haha

 

The guy who was playing with him HAD no idea what he was doing with him or had a TERRIBLE luck.

 

 

Ran

[Drachnon]

Mephiston overpowered? Really now? I don't think that Mephiston is harder to kill then lets say a bloodthirster, which happens to cost the same amount of points (without upgrades). Now people may argue that a bloodthirster has lower initiative and one wound less but I think a 4+ invunerable save and eternal warrior just because he's a daemon well makes up for this.

 

Now the peculiar thing is I don't think there's much people complaining that a bloodthirster will kill almost anything in close combat. He's costs the same points as a landraider so you'd expect him to carry his own weight around. Mephiston is the same. However while the Bloodthirster has a long history of close combar ownage, Mephiston probably comes as a unexpected change to many who keep thinking about every space marine as the same statline with a few modefications for several roles in the army, that always uses pretty much the same formula. Now if one would argue that having access to a model with a statline that's un-space marine like I would first like to point out that the spacewolf codex allows modifications to the base statline of models that are not just augmentations like a bike but actually changes to the base stats in the form of thunderwolves.

 

Now I won't go to the spacewolves forum to complain about these stat changes even if I felt that for 10 points more then a bike you'd receive an actual change to toughness as well as other stats. The only downside compared to the bike is that you become cavalry rather then a bike type.

 

Now this may perhaps be my opinion and people can disagree with me, but if you do I'd like you to include arguments on why mephiston is overpowered that I couldn't apply to a bloodthirster. The best reason for this to be included is that if your arguments apply to both your problem is not as much with mephiston but with units with similar statlines like mephiston instead and would make discussion technically unfit for this forum for bloodangels.

[Blitzkreig]

Mephiston overpowered? Really now? I don't think that Mephiston is harder to kill then lets say a bloodthirster, which happens to cost the same amount of points (without upgrades). Now people may argue that a bloodthirster has lower initiative and one wound less but I think a 4+ invunerable save and eternal warrior just because he's a daemon well makes up for this.

 

Now the peculiar thing is I don't think there's much people complaining that a bloodthirster will kill almost anything in close combat. He's costs the same points as a landraider so you'd expect him to carry his own weight around. Mephiston is the same. However while the Bloodthirster has a long history of close combar ownage, Mephiston probably comes as a unexpected change to many who keep thinking about every space marine as the same statline with a few modefications for several roles in the army, that always uses pretty much the same formula. Now if one would argue that having access to a model with a statline that's un-space marine like I would first like to point out that the spacewolf codex allows modifications to the base statline of models that are not just augmentations like a bike but actually changes to the base stats in the form of thunderwolves.

 

Now I won't go to the spacewolves forum to complain about these stat changes even if I felt that for 10 points more then a bike you'd receive an actual change to toughness as well as other stats. The only downside compared to the bike is that you become cavalry rather then a bike type.

 

Now this may perhaps be my opinion and people can disagree with me, but if you do I'd like you to include arguments on why mephiston is overpowered that I couldn't apply to a bloodthirster. The best reason for this to be included is that if your arguments apply to both your problem is not as much with mephiston but with units with similar statlines like mephiston instead and would make discussion technically unfit for this forum for bloodangels.

 

You know my Daemon army runs around with 2 Bloodthirsters and no-body has ever said anything...... but my mate threw down Mephiston and everyone freaked and started calling him a power-gamer.

[Crynn]

You know my Daemon army runs around with 2 Bloodthirsters and no-body has ever said anything...... but my mate threw down Mephiston and everyone freaked and started calling him a power-gamer.

 

I have reasoned a similar arguement saying that there are many other units that are capable of Mephs level of destruction. Wolf Lords on thunder wolves (and sry mort in my prior example with the TH/SS Wolf Lord I was presuming the use of saga of the bear, you'd have to be a fool not to use it) and thirsters, princes etc. However I still get the same response. I am no doubt a good player without yanking my own chain and I was still winning my games even with the 4th ed PDF codex so I'd like to think there's an element of skill in my game and not just "I played Meph, so of course I won". Honestly I do think hes a fantastic even for his points I just agree that other armies are capable of similar units and Meph is not in a world of his own.

 

The reason I brought this subject up again was more to get a 'how to kill Meph' and a 'How you've lost Meph/found him in the meta game' so that I could show others this thread to validate my case that my army isnt completely ard boys tooled out. My army is hardish but there are some softer spots in it. Just for arguements sake I shall post it here for you guys to comment on. Tell me out of 5 how competitive you think it is, just like in my area make a score of '0' mean, 'your army is for hard boys only and is completely geared for making oppenents cry' and 5 is "made for friendly games where you have a super soft fluffy list.

 

Really appreciate the feedback guys

Crynn

 

List 1750 ( I haven't dropped a game yet but I realize that I need more opponents, for instance there isnt a really good eldar player in my are who I feel would have no troubloes with this list.) Anyway enough ramble.

 

HQ

 

Mephiston

 

Honor Guard 2x Lightning claw and 2x Melta gun

 

Troops

10 man tac squad

Rhino with dozer blade, Sargent with PF and combi melta, melta and missile launcher

 

5 man RAS

melta gun

Razorback with twinlinked Heavy Flamers and dozer blade

 

5 man RAS with jump packs

melta and power weapon

 

Fast Attack

 

Baal pred with AC and twin Heavy Bolters and dozer blade

 

Elites

 

Librarian Dreadnaught

Shield of Sanguinius, Wings of Sanguinius

 

Heavy Support

 

Predator

Autocannon Twin Lascannons

 

2x Vindicator with dozer blade

[Zid]

I lol everytime I read threads like this... as others have made abundantly aparent, theres other far more viscious things out there. Bloodthirster is by and far the MOST powerful CC HQ I've seen or played as; WS 10 at I 6 (on the charge) and str 9 is pretty beast... most things need 5's just to hit him! On top of that he hits with a PF at initiative. Tack on EW, Wings, T6, and a 4+ invun, hes a beast. And at 300ish points (fully upgraded anyway), hes a steal when he can plow through 3 kans a turn on the charge.

 

Meph is good, don't get me wrong. But theres quite a few ways to kill him, and I've lost in in many a battle due to mistakes/facing these things:

 

1) Full TW-calv group all with Stormshields. Yes, they fail an invun and lose a model... but with a 3+ invun its a long shot. One game my buddy made all his invuns, then turned around and swung back. Took 2 wounds from meph (1 more from fearless) and meph was stuck in.

2) Boyz. A full Boyz unit gets on meph and hes locked in. Given 2-3 turns, meph will most likely die from the hidden claw.

3) IG. Chimera heavy IG can down him easily through shear number of shots.

4) Nids. Hormagaunts and things get the charge on him and hes locked in, just as with Boyz. Worse yet, with toxin sacs, they're very likely to kill him due to needing only 4's to wound.

5) Farseer. Farseers wreck Meph with Runes of Warding. Unless you roll below a 12 your not going anywhere. Worse yet, your afraid to even attempt more than 1 power per turn.

6) Other Librarians. My buddy and I played BA vs BA, he was running meph as was I. My meph ran around facepounding everything... however, his meph was nearby my librarian. I ended up canceling Sword EVERYTIME he tried it, as well as wings. Lucky rolls, yes, but a Libby canceling some powers can mess up Mephs game. I charged meph with a DC dreadnaught and wiped him out in 1 round of CC (I had talons)... all because I canceled his sword. All he could do was glance my dread that ignores 1 and 2's and I ate him.

7) Hive Tyrants. Shadow of the Warp messes up meph bigtime.

 

I could go on and on, but like anything else in this game, theres checks and balances. Yes, Meph is GREAT vs several armies (Vanilla Marines, Chaos, Space Puppies come to mind), but hes far from the be-all charecter. I'd much rather run 2 libbys with jump packs for the price of meph; giving 2 units reroll all hits, or a 5+ cover save, or causing a unit to run off the board (I've destroyed full TW calv armies with this one power) is far more effective than one beast CC guy that can get mowed down over time.

[Blitzkreig]

You know my Daemon army runs around with 2 Bloodthirsters and no-body has ever said anything...... but my mate threw down Mephiston and everyone freaked and started calling him a power-gamer.

 

I have reasoned a similar arguement saying that there are many other units that are capable of Mephs level of destruction. Wolf Lords on thunder wolves (and sry mort in my prior example with the TH/SS Wolf Lord I was presuming the use of saga of the bear, you'd have to be a fool not to use it) and thirsters, princes etc. However I still get the same response. I am no doubt a good player without yanking my own chain and I was still winning my games even with the 4th ed PDF codex so I'd like to think there's an element of skill in my game and not just "I played Meph, so of course I won". Honestly I do think hes a fantastic even for his points I just agree that other armies are capable of similar units and Meph is not in a world of his own.

 

The reason I brought this subject up again was more to get a 'how to kill Meph' and a 'How you've lost Meph/found him in the meta game' so that I could show others this thread to validate my case that my army isnt completely ard boys tooled out. My army is hardish but there are some softer spots in it. Just for arguements sake I shall post it here for you guys to comment on. Tell me out of 5 how competitive you think it is, just like in my area make a 1 is , 'your army is for hard boys only and is completely geared for making oppenents cry' and 5 is "made for friendly games where you have a super soft fluffy list.

 

 

I (for the hell of it) threw 3 Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield wielding Lone Wolves at Mister Lord of Death. Thats how I kill most things that look scary....

[Crynn]

I lol everytime I read threads like this... as others have made abundantly aparent, theres other far more viscious things out there. Bloodthirster is by and far the MOST powerful CC HQ I've seen or played as; WS 10 at I 6 (on the charge) and str 9 is pretty beast... most things need 5's just to hit him! On top of that he hits with a PF at initiative. Tack on EW, Wings, T6, and a 4+ invun, hes a beast. And at 300ish points (fully upgraded anyway), hes a steal when he can plow through 3 kans a turn on the charge.

 

Meph is good, don't get me wrong. But theres quite a few ways to kill him, and I've lost in in many a battle due to mistakes/facing these things:

 

1) Full TW-calv group all with Stormshields. Yes, they fail an invun and lose a model... but with a 3+ invun its a long shot. One game my buddy made all his invuns, then turned around and swung back. Took 2 wounds from meph (1 more from fearless) and meph was stuck in.

2) Boyz. A full Boyz unit gets on meph and hes locked in. Given 2-3 turns, meph will most likely die from the hidden claw.

3) IG. Chimera heavy IG can down him easily through shear number of shots.

4) Nids. Hormagaunts and things get the charge on him and hes locked in, just as with Boyz. Worse yet, with toxin sacs, they're very likely to kill him due to needing only 4's to wound.

5) Farseer. Farseers wreck Meph with Runes of Warding. Unless you roll below a 12 your not going anywhere. Worse yet, your afraid to even attempt more than 1 power per turn.

6) Other Librarians. My buddy and I played BA vs BA, he was running meph as was I. My meph ran around facepounding everything... however, his meph was nearby my librarian. I ended up canceling Sword EVERYTIME he tried it, as well as wings. Lucky rolls, yes, but a Libby canceling some powers can mess up Mephs game. I charged meph with a DC dreadnaught and wiped him out in 1 round of CC (I had talons)... all because I canceled his sword. All he could do was glance my dread that ignores 1 and 2's and I ate him.

7) Hive Tyrants. Shadow of the Warp messes up meph bigtime.

 

I could go on and on, but like anything else in this game, theres checks and balances. Yes, Meph is GREAT vs several armies (Vanilla Marines, Chaos, Space Puppies come to mind), but hes far from the be-all charecter. I'd much rather run 2 libbys with jump packs for the price of meph; giving 2 units reroll all hits, or a 5+ cover save, or causing a unit to run off the board (I've destroyed full TW calv armies with this one power) is far more effective than one beast CC guy that can get mowed down over time.

 

 

Just to let you know once Meph has cast Sanguine sword sword he never has to cast it again just like any lib as the power never ends it's a once cast so really your dread should have gotten stomped. But yes I agree with everything else you say and thunder hammer SS lone wolves are a nightmare for him.

 

However now that I have a solid base to support my arguement that Meph isnt the be all and end all of the game and I can tell those idiots at my local GW to go stick it when they have a whinge if you could write any notes about my army list and what you think of it that would be fantastic, cause I'm just sick of hearing how rediculously hard meph is. (And my army from certain incompotent players)

 

Would really appreciate it guys.

[calgaryBA]

It all depends on the dice with mephiston. For me, he's mostly been a bed :cusster.

 

So far, out of the 7 games i've played him in, he's taken wounds off him self every game. One game he took 4 of his own wounds, he killed himself in 2 other games, and took 2-3 wounds off himself the other 4 games. He's just fantastic at rolling double 1 and 6's.

 

I also have a good tendency to fail all hits with him. In one of those 7 games, i rolled 5 1's, twice! and 5 1's once more in a different game.

 

Tonight, I also managed to get my ass kicked by an eldar avatar who took down 2 10 man assault squads with a useless sanguinary priest in each, a terminator assault squad with 3x th/ss and another useless terminator priest, and mephiston.... ugh. It almost looks unbelievable seeing it all written out like this lol.

[Zid]

I lol everytime I read threads like this... as others have made abundantly aparent, theres other far more viscious things out there. Bloodthirster is by and far the MOST powerful CC HQ I've seen or played as; WS 10 at I 6 (on the charge) and str 9 is pretty beast... most things need 5's just to hit him! On top of that he hits with a PF at initiative. Tack on EW, Wings, T6, and a 4+ invun, hes a beast. And at 300ish points (fully upgraded anyway), hes a steal when he can plow through 3 kans a turn on the charge.

 

Meph is good, don't get me wrong. But theres quite a few ways to kill him, and I've lost in in many a battle due to mistakes/facing these things:

 

1) Full TW-calv group all with Stormshields. Yes, they fail an invun and lose a model... but with a 3+ invun its a long shot. One game my buddy made all his invuns, then turned around and swung back. Took 2 wounds from meph (1 more from fearless) and meph was stuck in.

2) Boyz. A full Boyz unit gets on meph and hes locked in. Given 2-3 turns, meph will most likely die from the hidden claw.

3) IG. Chimera heavy IG can down him easily through shear number of shots.

4) Nids. Hormagaunts and things get the charge on him and hes locked in, just as with Boyz. Worse yet, with toxin sacs, they're very likely to kill him due to needing only 4's to wound.

5) Farseer. Farseers wreck Meph with Runes of Warding. Unless you roll below a 12 your not going anywhere. Worse yet, your afraid to even attempt more than 1 power per turn.

6) Other Librarians. My buddy and I played BA vs BA, he was running meph as was I. My meph ran around facepounding everything... however, his meph was nearby my librarian. I ended up canceling Sword EVERYTIME he tried it, as well as wings. Lucky rolls, yes, but a Libby canceling some powers can mess up Mephs game. I charged meph with a DC dreadnaught and wiped him out in 1 round of CC (I had talons)... all because I canceled his sword. All he could do was glance my dread that ignores 1 and 2's and I ate him.

7) Hive Tyrants. Shadow of the Warp messes up meph bigtime.

 

I could go on and on, but like anything else in this game, theres checks and balances. Yes, Meph is GREAT vs several armies (Vanilla Marines, Chaos, Space Puppies come to mind), but hes far from the be-all charecter. I'd much rather run 2 libbys with jump packs for the price of meph; giving 2 units reroll all hits, or a 5+ cover save, or causing a unit to run off the board (I've destroyed full TW calv armies with this one power) is far more effective than one beast CC guy that can get mowed down over time.

 

 

Just to let you know once Meph has cast Sanguine sword sword he never has to cast it again just like any lib as the power never ends it's a once cast so really your dread should have gotten stomped. But yes I agree with everything else you say and thunder hammer SS lone wolves are a nightmare for him.

 

However now that I have a solid base to support my arguement that Meph isnt the be all and end all of the game and I can tell those idiots at my local GW to go stick it when they have a whinge if you could write any notes about my army list and what you think of it that would be fantastic, cause I'm just sick of hearing how rediculously hard meph is. (And my army from certain incompotent players)

 

Would really appreciate it guys.

 

Actually I managed to cancel it... everytime lol

[Crynn]

It all depends on the dice with mephiston. For me, he's mostly been a bed :cusster.

 

So far, out of the 7 games i've played him in, he's taken wounds off him self every game. One game he took 4 of his own wounds, he killed himself in 2 other games, and took 2-3 wounds off himself the other 4 games. He's just fantastic at rolling double 1 and 6's.

 

I also have a good tendency to fail all hits with him. In one of those 7 games, i rolled 5 1's, twice! and 5 1's once more in a different game.

 

Tonight, I also managed to get my ass kicked by an eldar avatar who took down 2 10 man assault squads with a useless sanguinary priest in each, a terminator assault squad with 3x th/ss and another useless terminator priest, and mephiston.... ugh. It almost looks unbelievable seeing it all written out like this lol.

 

I think that has nothing to do with any of the units mentioned and everything to do with your rolling. It is really isnt relivant to anything as we can't base opinions on Meph dealing 4 wounds to himself a game and rolling 5 1's to hit or an avatar ever killing that much stuff.

 

I lol everytime I read threads like this... as others have made abundantly aparent, theres other far more viscious things out there. Bloodthirster is by and far the MOST powerful CC HQ I've seen or played as; WS 10 at I 6 (on the charge) and str 9 is pretty beast... most things need 5's just to hit him! On top of that he hits with a PF at initiative. Tack on EW, Wings, T6, and a 4+ invun, hes a beast. And at 300ish points (fully upgraded anyway), hes a steal when he can plow through 3 kans a turn on the charge.

 

Meph is good, don't get me wrong. But theres quite a few ways to kill him, and I've lost in in many a battle due to mistakes/facing these things:

 

1) Full TW-calv group all with Stormshields. Yes, they fail an invun and lose a model... but with a 3+ invun its a long shot. One game my buddy made all his invuns, then turned around and swung back. Took 2 wounds from meph (1 more from fearless) and meph was stuck in.

2) Boyz. A full Boyz unit gets on meph and hes locked in. Given 2-3 turns, meph will most likely die from the hidden claw.

3) IG. Chimera heavy IG can down him easily through shear number of shots.

4) Nids. Hormagaunts and things get the charge on him and hes locked in, just as with Boyz. Worse yet, with toxin sacs, they're very likely to kill him due to needing only 4's to wound.

5) Farseer. Farseers wreck Meph with Runes of Warding. Unless you roll below a 12 your not going anywhere. Worse yet, your afraid to even attempt more than 1 power per turn.

6) Other Librarians. My buddy and I played BA vs BA, he was running meph as was I. My meph ran around facepounding everything... however, his meph was nearby my librarian. I ended up canceling Sword EVERYTIME he tried it, as well as wings. Lucky rolls, yes, but a Libby canceling some powers can mess up Mephs game. I charged meph with a DC dreadnaught and wiped him out in 1 round of CC (I had talons)... all because I canceled his sword. All he could do was glance my dread that ignores 1 and 2's and I ate him.

7) Hive Tyrants. Shadow of the Warp messes up meph bigtime.

 

I could go on and on, but like anything else in this game, theres checks and balances. Yes, Meph is GREAT vs several armies (Vanilla Marines, Chaos, Space Puppies come to mind), but hes far from the be-all charecter. I'd much rather run 2 libbys with jump packs for the price of meph; giving 2 units reroll all hits, or a 5+ cover save, or causing a unit to run off the board (I've destroyed full TW calv armies with this one power) is far more effective than one beast CC guy that can get mowed down over time.

 

 

Just to let you know once Meph has cast Sanguine sword sword he never has to cast it again just like any lib as the power never ends it's a once cast so really your dread should have gotten stomped. But yes I agree with everything else you say and thunder hammer SS lone wolves are a nightmare for him.

 

However now that I have a solid base to support my arguement that Meph isnt the be all and end all of the game and I can tell those idiots at my local GW to go stick it when they have a whinge if you could write any notes about my army list and what you think of it that would be fantastic, cause I'm just sick of hearing how rediculously hard meph is. (And my army from certain incompotent players)

 

Would really appreciate it guys.

 

Actually I managed to cancel it... everytime lol

 

Well thats just impressive seeing as he can cast it 3 times per player assault phase so my hat goes off to you! An army list comment would be really appreciated to mate!

[Zid]

Well thats just impressive seeing as he can cast it 3 times per player assault phase so my hat goes off to you! An army list comment would be really appreciated to mate!

 

Yeah, lucky die rolls and my opponent didn't know he could cast it twice (he cast Rage successfully, I canceled sword, and he never tried again).

 

HQ

 

Mephiston

 

Honor Guard 2x Lightning claw and 2x Melta gun

 

Troops

10 man tac squad

Rhino with dozer blade, Sargent with PF and combi melta, melta and missile launcher

 

5 man RAS

melta gun

Razorback with twinlinked Heavy Flamers and dozer blade

 

5 man RAS with jump packs

melta and power weapon

 

Fast Attack

 

Baal pred with AC and twin Heavy Bolters and dozer blade

 

Elites

 

Librarian Dreadnaught

Shield of Sanguinius, Wings of Sanguinius

 

Heavy Support

 

Predator

Autocannon Twin Lascannons

 

2x Vindicator with dozer blade

 

Heres my list comments:

1) Mephs ok, doesn't really fit this list as well as others, but still works

2) Your Honor Guard seems... all over the place. LC's are good and well, but if you fail to pop the transport... thats an expensive squad going bye bye. I'd recommend going for 4x meltas, 3x meltas + TH, or no power weps at all. Make them focus on popping tanks or knocking out troops.

3) I'll be the first to tell you I HATE tac squads. Anywho, for your loadout, I'd drop the ML for a Lascannon. 1 ML in your army won't do much... at all. At least a Lascannon gives you a much better chance to pop stuff.

4) Cut the dozer blade off your razorback and change the melta to a flamer. I'd also find points for a PW. Make this unit focus only on dropping troops (honestly, if your driving your HF razorback to pop a landraider, your doing it wrong lol)

5) Your 5 man AM squad... will die quickly. It just seems so random! I'd recommend throwing these guys in a razorback and find points for a TL lascannon on it or somethin

6) The baals good, they work better in pairs tho. I recommend dropping the other predator to fit a second Baal in, same loadout

7) Libby dreads always fail for me, but if it works for you great

8) Vindis always are great, as I said before tho, drop the Pred for another Baal

 

Those are my recommendations. I understand if your using what you have ATM to play, which is all good. But your army needs more focus!

[whitewolfmxc]

Just to let you know once Meph has cast Sanguine sword sword he never has to cast it again just like any lib as the power never ends it's a once cast so really your dread should have gotten stomped. But yes I agree with everything else you say and thunder hammer SS lone wolves are a nightmare for him.

 

However now that I have a solid base to support my arguement that Meph isnt the be all and end all of the game and I can tell those idiots at my local GW to go stick it when they have a whinge if you could write any notes about my army list and what you think of it that would be fantastic, cause I'm just sick of hearing how rediculously hard meph is. (And my army from certain incompotent players)

 

Would really appreciate it guys.

 

you sure about that ? lol havent heard that one before