Is Mephiston too powerful?

[Walter Payton]

Typhus walked through him at the last game I took him too...

[Grimtooth]

While everyone seems to point out the necessary need to put so much into killing Meph, people also forget what is needed to keep him alive.

 

So what if I am going to task 3 GH squads to take him out via mobile meltagun bunkers? You are screening him with units and/or vehicles just to keep him alive. Do you see how that plays out? You are sacrificing models just to keep him alive, I am using models to try and kill him.

 

Meph used in CONJUNCTION with a well built army list and tactics is devastating. Without, he is a crutch as I pointed out earlier. This isn't a shot against BA players in general since SW players have idiots as well, but an observation of bad tactics in the world of Herohammer 40k.

[the jeske]

Typhus walked through him at the last game I took him too...

how ? tyfus can be ID , mefo cant. mefo can run around with a str 10 sword if he wants to or buff himself and tyfus can do nothing about it. on the other hand mefo can hood anything that tyfus casts. mefo has higher I so he strikes before tyfus [again the guy that can be ID] .

[Blitzkreig]

Typhus walked through him at the last game I took him too...

how ? tyfus can be ID , mefo cant. mefo can run around with a str 10 sword if he wants to or buff himself and tyfus can do nothing about it. on the other hand mefo can hood anything that tyfus casts. mefo has higher I so he strikes before tyfus [again the guy that can be ID] .

 

Exceedingly bad luck on the BA players part? Hell I had a squad of guardsmen kill a bloodthrister in hand to hand once.

[Zeller]

How about 5 las cannons to the face? Unless he's in cover he's as good as dead.

[Ranwulf]

How about 5 las cannons to the face? Unless he's in cover he's as good as dead.

 

First you have to hit them all, second you have to wound, third most good players get him cover no matter what.

 

Ran

[whitewolfmxc]

Yeah strangely enough it is true my friend. Unlike the other 2 BA CC psychic powers which state when you can cast them and for how long the bonuses apply, sanguine sword reads only. 'The librarian attacks are made at str 10' or something along those lines. Which is why in many games I put a lib with a jump pack into an honor guard with 2-3 LC's with sang sword and unleash rage. first assault phase that happens even if its the enemies and there is no cc on the table i cast sang sword so that when my HG and Lib charge turn two the only thing he has to cast is unleash rage to get those amazing 4 str 10 attacks with rerolls or 5 if theres a banner in there!

 

I don't think many people know how to use Mephiston correctly for instance. Unleash rage lasts a whole turn not a player turn dont recast it all the time. if you go first cast it in your phase so when the enemy charges you its 1 less psychic power you have to worry about or when the swarm lord charges you and dies on Mephs pointy hand held killing object he'll wonder why you got 3 attempts to use your force sword cause you already had unleashed rage and Sang Sword cast. Small things like this drastically increase Mephs potential, less powers means less perils and less failed casts when you need them. Also you don't want Meph to always beat everything in one round of combat, sometimes its best not to cast rage and draw it out another turn so you dont get shot!

 

 

Shenanigans!

 

 

The first sentence in this rule tells us when this power is used.

"This power is used at the start of either players assault phase"

 

The following sentence then explains the effect.

"The Librarians close combat attacks are made at S10".

 

I feel it is poor reading comprehension to preclude the first half of the paragraph and take the sentence out of context.

The use of the definite article "The" can imply specific attacks (which are related to the use of the power in a certain time frame ie: either player's assault phase.

 

For clarifications sake, Im of the opinion that this is ambiguous in the truest sense of the word. The RAW reading seems stronger, but I believe that since it can be read/interpretted in another way, and in a situation like this its a bit poor form to hold our opponents to this.

99% of them didnt hold us to non-blast vindies.

 

I think this should go on the FAQ STICKY for the psychic power , cause if i faced a BA player pulling this on me , ill be quite "mad" lol

[donnyb]

Sanguine sword probably does need to be clarified, but Unleash rage clearly does not last an entire game turn.

 

I am of the opinion that the sword only lasts the assault phase, as per mort's suggestion.

[Zid]

Sanguine sword probably does need to be clarified, but Unleash rage clearly does not last an entire game turn.

 

I am of the opinion that the sword only lasts the assault phase, as per mort's suggestion.

 

As am I. It says cast at the beginning of either assault phase, that implies you need to use it to be striking at str 10

[All-Things-Power-Armoured]

Mephiston is not overpowered.

 

He only knows the 3 Psychic powers, sanguine sword, unleash rage and wings of sanguinius. So yes he can gain prefered enemy and str 10. SO WHAT???? T6? and I7?

 

That's pretty good, but there's plenty of other things in the game capable of killing him. The only truly dangerous part of his stat-line is I7, the rest of it is easily killable, hence why take him on at something he's good at, combat!!!

 

Personally I do not like Mephiston as a character, I don't even like most characters, I have a thing against librarians for no apparent reason apart from the fact I never remember to do the psychic powers and other characters are much more fun. However, how is mephiston different to characters in other codices, and so what if he's 250 points, that's one character, with a 2+ save and no invulnerable that can be taken out with appropriate fire put against them.

 

Don't get me started on some of the things you can do with the Space Wolves codex, and Dark Eldar (yeah i know they're going to be updated).

 

At the end of the day he has been extensively play tested, yes he's hard to take out, but then so are a lot of units that are 250 points! If you run an all comers list, as most people do unless you play mephi on a regular basis, you should have units capable of taking him out anyway, ie sternguard with 5 combi plasmas seems to do the trick. At 150 points, plus Razorback w/Assault Cannons makes it 240 points. That's a nasty squad but people don't complain about that all the time.

 

The cries of "he's overpowered He's overpowered" is the cry of someone who failed to assess the tactical situation and hence got annihilated by him. That's the same with any list, the whole point in the game is making tactical decisions to over come your enemy.

 

If he comes, unlucky, but you deal with him, and if your opponent is using him he's probably a very important part of his tactical plan, so if you take him out first turn, then you mess up his plans straight away. Look at the battlefield, assess the threats, destroy them with appropriate fire power, I sound like a tau player lol.

[the jeske]

That's pretty good, but there's plenty of other things in the game capable of killing him

what are those units or unit combinations that do it realiably without gimiping your abilty to counter the rest ofthe BA army , but it doesnt realy help that much if you have to focus fire him with 500 or more points and not touch the rest of the BA army[that is shoting/assaulting etc] .

 

sternguard with 5 combi plasmas seems to do the trick. At 150 points, plus Razorback w/Assault Cannons makes it 240 points

which is 2 KP , much easier to counter then a single model[harder to hide, sternguard still die like meq etc] like mefisto and they dont have a psychic hood which you have to take in any imperial army anyway. Which of course doesnt mean that a pedro build with its 2x10 sternguard with combi weapons which combat squad after drop dont have a good chance to kill mefiston [or at least bring him down close to 1 wound because of cover] . But saying that all armies should run a unit that can only be used by 2 codex doesnt really help.

[Corby]

Typhus walked through him at the last game I took him too...

how ? tyfus can be ID , mefo cant. mefo can run around with a str 10 sword if he wants to or buff himself and tyfus can do nothing about it. on the other hand mefo can hood anything that tyfus casts. mefo has higher I so he strikes before tyfus [again the guy that can be ID] .

 

 

But Mephiston can be instant killed.

Typhus obviously force weaponed Mephiston. If Mephiston failed to get Sanguine sword off and failed to wound typhus to force weapon him then Typhus could force weapon him. Its has a very slim chance of happening though. More than likely Typhus had a bodyguard of terminators which for some reason the Ba player decided to kill first. However thats just me speculating.

 

And heck Mephiston isn't even fearless.

[Morticon]

Ive stuck the Sang Sword thing in the BA FAQ !

[Oiad]

But Mephiston can be instant killed.

Typhus obviously force weaponed Mephiston. If Mephiston failed to get Sanguine sword off and failed to wound typhus to force weapon him then Typhus could force weapon him. Its has a very slim chance of happening though. More than likely Typhus had a bodyguard of terminators which for some reason the Ba player decided to kill first. However thats just me speculating.

 

And heck Mephiston isn't even fearless.

 

Beat me to it. Typhus is a psyker and while he doesn't have a P'Hood he does have a force weapon that always wounds on 4+. So with some luck...

 

...the fearless thing reminds me of the most funny time I've heard of Meph being defeated. Ran off the board after being hustled by some small-time daemons. Yet again, the BA player wasn't having the most lucky of days.

 

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EDIT- General mismash of typing, grammar and computer problems.

[Corby]

...the fearless thing reminds me of the most funny time I've heard of Meph being defeated. Ran off the board after being hustled by some small-time daemons. Yet again, the BA player wasn't having the most lucky of days.

 

 

Yeah he really should be fearless.

[SamaNagol]

Mephiston can be killed. However that is not the issue. The issue is that unless you are an utter buffoon he will without fail get you more than his points cost back in kills every game.

[Oiad]

I think the general consensus already garnered here is to just be prepared for the possibility of facing him when playing against BA, know how your units can counter him and hope (as always) that luck is on your side that day. That advice can really be aimed at any model though.

 

Something I haven't witnessed that I'd like to see is how different lists will deal with him in a very small (500pt) game.

 

 

Yeah he really should be fearless.

Add fearless to a list of several USRs that could have made his list based on fluff. @ 250pts he's already pushing it though. -_-

[Burningblood]

I think the general consensus already garnered here is to just be prepared for the possibility of facing him when playing against BA, know how your units can counter him and hope (as always) that luck is on your side that day. That advice can really be aimed at any model though.

 

Something I haven't witnessed that I'd like to see is how different lists will deal with him in a very small (500pt) game.

 

 

Yeah he really should be fearless.

Add fearless to a list of several USRs that could have made his list based on fluff. @ 250pts he's already pushing it though. -_-

If we were basing his rules on fluff he would cost 2,000 points and just instantly win every game.

[Ranwulf]

I think the general consensus already garnered here is to just be prepared for the possibility of facing him when playing against BA, know how your units can counter him and hope (as always) that luck is on your side that day. That advice can really be aimed at any model though.

 

Something I haven't witnessed that I'd like to see is how different lists will deal with him in a very small (500pt) game.

 

 

Yeah he really should be fearless.

Add fearless to a list of several USRs that could have made his list based on fluff. @ 250pts he's already pushing it though. -_-

If we were basing his rules on fluff he would cost 2,000 points and just instantly win every game.

 

He costs 250 points and already does that for me.

 

Ran

[Blitzkreig]

Mephiston can be killed. However that is not the issue. The issue is that unless you are an utter buffoon he will without fail get you more than his points cost back in kills every game.

 

Wolf Lord with Runic Armour, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield and Saga of the Bear..... 215 Points and can seriously lay the smack down on Mephiston with a 3++ Save, Eternal Warrior and 5 S8 attacks in the first round of combat (usually), chuck in the fact that if Meph doesn't manage to take him out in one round Meph loses that pretty I7 he's packing for the next combat.

[LordofDeath11]

...the fearless thing reminds me of the most funny time I've heard of Meph being defeated. Ran off the board after being hustled by some small-time daemons. Yet again, the BA player wasn't having the most lucky of days.

 

Yeah he really should be fearless.

 

Indeed.

 

Mephiston, the Imperium's Chief Librarian and our Lord of DEATH....runs away from things. :huh:

[the jeske]

If Mephiston failed to get Sanguine sword off and failed to wound typhus to force weapon him then Typhus could force weapon him.

a yeah and technicly speaking a 3 A RAS can kill tyfus too. sang has higher I . more attack , tyfus can be ID , strikes slower. considering that to get in to hth mefisto needs 1-2 turns he has 2 chances to cast the sword . tyfus cant do nothing about it[chaos has no anti psyker powers] and even if the mefiston doesnt get sword somehow he still can ID him with normal force weapon attacks . even without the force weapon working there is a good chance that tyfus dies from normal attacks alone.

saying that tyfus kills mefiston is like saying a single melta gun is good enough anti tank for anyarmy.

 

 

ah and by the way tyfus is LR costly too.

 

More than likely Typhus had a bodyguard of terminators which for some reason the Ba player decided to kill first.

yeah and termis and a LR transport too. 800 points in a single unit that start to slog after 2 melta deep strike near. no one is talking here if mefisto can be killed with twice as many points , most units/models can [if not then we get 4th ed falcon circus] one on one mefiston will not kill tyfus .and if you get BA termis + mefo vs tyfus and his termis the chaos termis die without even striking.

[whitewolfmxc]

Mephiston can be killed. However that is not the issue. The issue is that unless you are an utter buffoon he will without fail get you more than his points cost back in kills every game.

 

Wolf Lord with Runic Armour, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield and Saga of the Bear..... 215 Points and can seriously lay the smack down on Mephiston with a 3++ Save, Eternal Warrior and 5 S8 attacks in the first round of combat (usually), chuck in the fact that if Meph doesn't manage to take him out in one round Meph loses that pretty I7 he's packing for the next combat.

 

Yeah that should do it with a high chance of winning the fight , but don't assume that everyone plays SW and everyone will bring this layout lol

 

And the fact the Mr M has the edge on movement , you dont want to get charged ? sure id like to see how your wolf lord on Foot is going to chase him ? Land raider you say ? another 250 points for you sir and that still might not do the job catching , and this doesn't include any bodyguards either unless you want to throw in more points (its like saying yeah sure an entire SW army will certainly win against Mr M 1 vs 100 models) lol unless now you want to say that the wolf lord alone has more survivability than Mr M on general terms then ok .........lol

 

apples and oranges here my friend lol

 

ps: Am just bloody tired seeing people always bringing up SW entries when they try to justify that something is NOT OP cause something else in another codex is Op (no im not pointing at the poster im quoting) , people get over it , ever since the SW codex came out for a month , there's near no more complain about the codex cause its a very balanced out codex (except like Jaws for players that play nids XD) in the end if you see it through and not just pick an plug entries here and there , and complaining about other codex's doesn't make another book not have its designing problems nor justifies it (But im not aiming this statment at this particular issue this thread is bringing up as i mentioned in my earlier posts already) , end of Rant.

[haroon]

The skulltaker is my favorite thing to use Vs meph as its guarnteed to kill him.

[whitewolfmxc]

The skulltaker is my favorite thing to use Vs meph as its guarnteed to kill him.

 

What does it do mate ? i dont play demons