Is Mephiston too powerful?

[whitewolfmxc]

however Sang sword clearly, Let may say that again CLEARLY reads you only have to cast it once. Just because it lets you cast it in an opponents assault phase is completely irrelivant. Lets say I come up against eldar and meph gets charged by a wraithlord. I cast Sang sword then cause I'll need it and I didn't cast it before incase I risked taking a wound off Meph, that is just one example. I won't be letting a bunch of people who don't work for GW interperate the rules differently to how GW wrote them because they say it's fair when the rule is hardly even ambiguous. If you play it differenty how is it done? Lasts a player turn, a full turn? It doesn't even have an obvious answer there. As for making it relevant to our old vindicator shell, that's different because there is a precedent for a vindicator and its weapon in such numerous circumastances more specifically than precedent, the exact same weapon.

 

Crynn

 

I think your being a bit stubborn on this mate , yes your right about no ones here on behalf of GW and its crappy proof reading team. But 40k is a game that the player has to find permission of a rule to do something, not the other way around. So NO the rule isnt clear at all , doubtful at most like others have said.

 

 

If the rule doesnt say you only have to cast it once then it doesnt , and the wording "This power is USED ...." if it was working under your said context , it would be "This power is activated once cast" even if not worded so the original line implies it must be used which means it can go "off" again hence it could be "Used" again , or it would have been "This power is in use in either players assault phase"

 

As for how long it lasts , it is assumed its the player turn it was casted otherwise it wouldnt bother mentioning you can cast it in both players turn , but remember you can cast in the enemies player turn hence its pretty much always

 

simple , it doesnt say the power stays on once activated , so you cant

 

PS: This isnt personal , im just trying saying your statement is a bit harsh on others trying to see this issue through , of course i could be wrong on the rule too so you can always play with the rule how you look at it , but acknowledge others views and at least try to see where their getting from is also important in a game where we use plastic army man and kill each other off lol

[Ranwulf]

I won't be letting a bunch of people who don't work for GW interperate the rules differently to how GW wrote them because they say it's fair when the rule is hardly even ambiguous. If you play it differenty how is it done? Lasts a player turn, a full turn? It doesn't even have an obvious answer there. As for making it relevant to our old vindicator shell, that's different because there is a precedent for a vindicator and its weapon in such numerous circumastances more specifically than precedent, the exact same weapon.

 

Interpretate the rules IS one of the most important parts of the game. Actually of any game. You shouldn't depend on Games Workshop to interpretate all the rules for the player.

 

And if you don't want the Bolter and Chainsword interpretation that's it up to you, but don't try to force things that are already accepted as Community Rules.

 

Ran

[JamesI]

Lets keep the Sanguine sword discussion out of this thread. If you want to debate the amount of time Sanguine Sword lasts, start a thread in the Official Rules forum.

[Corby]

Alot of Mephiston hate.

[Ignatius]

He is powerful if you allow him to get into a position where he can use his strengths like anything else. From my experience he is fairly easy to take out, due to the fact that he isn't an IC. My two most effective ways of taking him out are stenguard or the thunder hammer and storm shield terminator tar pit. If he doesn't have a transport his easy pickings.

 

Now the Sanginor is a bit of a tough character, I generally find him to be a better combat monster.

 

I

[SamaNagol]

Killing Mephiston is no different to killing a C'Tan.... it's really not worth the effort and resources.

 

I'd have to disagree with the last part there. It absolutely is worth killing Mephiston, because unlike a C'tan, Meph is quite capable of getting into combat with units that the opposing player would really prefer he kept away from. C'tan move 6" per turn and for the most part have minimal ranged combat abilities. Meph can move like jump infantry, is Fleet and is small enough that his not having an Invulnerable save isn't a problem against shooting attacks. C'tan are easily avoided. Meph is not.

 

That's exactly why it isn't worth it. Because unless you have something that can move 12-18" a turn to chase him, you will never manage to catch him with an obvious tarpit. He'll be merrily butchering all of the heavy weapons in your back field getting 4+ cover saves from whichever unit is screening him

[tahrikmili]

That's exactly why it isn't worth it. Because unless you have something that can move 12-18" a turn to chase him, you will never manage to catch him with an obvious tarpit. He'll be merrily butchering all of the heavy weapons in your back field getting 4+ cover saves from whichever unit is screening him

 

Basically what you are saying is, best way to deal with Mephiston is to let him do his thing..

 

Which sounds awfully wrong..

[SamaNagol]

Try and feed him expendable units. Same way you would deal with a unit of Ork Nob Bikers. He is, for all intents and purposes a single model unit of Ork Nob Bikers

[Firedrake28]

Try and feed him expendable units. Same way you would deal with a unit of Ork Nob Bikers. He is, for all intents and purposes a single model unit of Ork Nob Bikers

 

Unless said expendable unit is freaking gigantic and will never run away (like a huge unit of Conscripts with a Lord Commissar) the chances of getting this to work are slim to none. Mephiston can chew through just about anything insanely fast. I can't think of any sort of expendable unit other than a huge Conscript horde or similar that he can't just chop his way through in a couple turns. 30 Orks are hardly expendable. Maybe the same number of Gaunts, but even then...

[Oiad]

Took this from the other thread:

I played against Meph the other day with my marines (as SW). I can't remember what he killed, it was upwards of 350 pts worth, but having limited AP2 weaponry I decided to ignore Meph and go after the rest of his army.

I'm sure if his player wasn't so unlucky rolling on Perils and avoided underestimating terrain that it would have been a lot higher. Saying that, with the amount of psychic power tests BA players will likely take using Mephiston it would be surprising if there weren't any self-inflicted peril wounds by the end of the game.

[Drachnon]

It seems some pages back someone stated that Mephiston was cheaper then a Bloodthirster and less vulnerable to weapon fire...... I think not.

 

While it may be true for AP 3 weapons against which the bloodthirster gets 3 times more wounds against AP1 and 2 weapons the bloodthirster will be better thanks to his 4+ invunerable save.

Anyone mentioning that Mephiston will always have a cover save is most likely wrong, in the first turn it's easy to give him a cover save but turn 2 you'll charge a target and probably kill it in one go. Afterwards you'll be right in the open for all enemy fire. Yes this has happened to me (got 3 plasma gun hits).

[Deus_Sanguinius]

But you don't leave Mephiston alone do you? 10 Assault Marines and a Priest are a fine LOS Blocker for him. So I guess Meph should get his cover save with no great problem.