The Wolf Brothers

[Requiem of the Wolf]

What this is,would be multiple instances of fluff contradicting each other.

 

To my mind,part of the reason that they never did further foundings of the Wolves is because the Space Wolves are hard enough to handle by themselves. There are plenty of examples of the Imperium realizing that trying to make the Wolves toe the line will not work. Why would they make more trouble for themselves by creating more chapters of Wolves.

 

Claims of Genetic instability would be a great 'reason' for not making more. The Wolf Brothers getting caught in the Webway solved the second founding.

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

What this is,would be multiple instances of fluff contradicting each other.

 

You can say that again :huh:

[Valerian]

If thats what happened to the Wolf Brothers then why does EVERYONE think that the chapter was disbanded?

 

I hate to actually try to explain everyone's ignorance on this issue, but I can only guess that the general lack of knowledge is simply because the story wasn't included in the most recent codex, and hardly any fluff was included in the old 3rd Edition codex, so it wasn't there either. Not everyone has been playing the game for the 10 years since that White Dwarf came out, and even an old guy like myself who has been playing for much longer than that, and even had that White Dwarf in my collection, still had to be reminded of it from another old-timer. When I went and looked it up for myself, there it was, in clear print, official GW-created "canon" fluff with the explanation of exactly what happened to the Wolfbrothers, in black and white. What more do you want?

 

I mean in 10 years of gaming this is the first time I've heard anything other then the chapter was disbanded due to their genetic instability.

 

Space Wolves players that are ignorant of the true fate of the Wolfbrothers may have stated (over and over again) that the Chapter was disbanded due to genetic instability, but GW never has. GW has only, ever, stated that the Space Wolves only had one successor, the ill-fated Wolfbrothers. They then go on to state that further divisions of the Chapter were never attempted. The genetic instability of the geneseed of Leman Russ was given as one possible explanation for why there were no other Chapters created from the Space Wolves; other explanations were that the Space Wolves were never a particularly large Legion to begin with, and yet another was simply that Leman Russ didn't want it to happen, so it didn't.

 

And if thats what happened to them why dosen't GW say it in the SW codex or any other source?

 

Write Jervis Johnson, or Phil Kelly and ask them.

 

that WD which is from what the time of the 2nd edition?

 

That White Dwarf was actually the seond of two issues that were focused on the release of the 3rd Edition Space Wolves codex. US White Dwarf #244 (May 2000), which has the 3rd Edition Codex cover picture on the front, and the title is "Unleashed! Codex Space Wolves Arrives!". It's contents include a 6 page discussion of the new codex, written by Jervis, a 2 page examination of the trusty old Space Wolves plastic sprue, and a 2 page story detailing The Battle of the Fang, when Cardinal Bucharis invaded Fenris.

 

US White Dwarf #245 (June 2000), which happened to be the 25th Anniversary Issue fir Games Workshop (1975-2000). The cover art features the "new" Land Raider kit, which modernized that old vehicle to it's current design. This is the issue that includes the "Lone Wolves" article with subsections on the Wolfbrothers (which I copied in the post earlier in this thread), The Sons of Russ, The Wulfen, and Jotun Bearclaw's Great Company. Other SW articles in WD245 are A Company of Wolves - Anthony Warrington's Golden Demon-winning Space Wolves army, Young Bloods - Blood Claws, Ancient Heroes - rules for using Venerable Dreadnoughts with a SW army, plus "Escape from Granica" a Battle Report with Andy Chambers Wolves v Jervis Johnsons Orks (which was a rematch of the 1st Space Wolves Bat Rep from back in 1993).

 

It's just news to me is all.

 

Okay, does that somehow make it untrue?

 

And it dosen't really make sense that an entire chapter would dissapear fighting Eldar as it is rare that entire chapters fight together.

 

Complain to Jervis that you do not find his explanation plausible, for the game which he and Rick Priestley created.

 

And I'm not so sure about the ill faited and genetic instability statements being in referance to the High Lords knowning about the Mark of the Wulfen.

 

Perhaps they didn't know specifically about the Curse of the Wulfen, but every Chapter has to send a tithe of geneseed to Mars for analysis and storage. We can assume that the Adeptus Mechanicus priests, or whomever is responsible for that could tell that there was issues with the genetic material. Regardless, it doesn't really matter if I can come up with a good answer as to how/why this makes sense, because the codex clearly states (page 9 last paragraph in the current version) that "perhaps the High Lords recognized the problems of genetic instability that would plague the legacy of Leman Russ, giving rise in later times to the terrible curse of the Wulfen," as one of the possible reasons to explain why they didn't get any more than one successor Chapter.

 

I mean if the Wolf Brothers dissapeared chasing Eldar why even mention genetic instability at all?

 

The "genetic instability" term isn't even used in the same sentence as the mentioning of the Wolfbrothers, it is in the next sentence, where the author starts giving the possible reasons for why the Legion was not divided any further.

 

Why not say their only successors dissapeared and because of suspicions of mutation no others where created.

 

Phil Kelly probably should have mentioned that they disappeared chasing the Eldar into the webway, but here is a thought, perhaps Phil Kelly doesn't even know that tidbit of background material - I don't think he was working for the company back in 2000. He might have thought it safer to just continue to use the descriptor of "ill-fated Wolfbrothers" and leave it at that. The reason that he doesn't go right out and say that "because of the suspicious mutation no others were created" is because we don't know that is in fact the case. It is one of several possible explanations, but like many things in the background material, GW likes to leave a lot of things up in the air, without specifically saying "here is the reason." They do this a lot, so it isn't a big deal.

 

I think that WD story may be old as GW updates and changes fluff and it currently points more towards the idea of the Wolf Brothers having turned to Wulfen instead of dissappearing.

 

I have seen exactly zero indications from Games Workshop in any article, publication, codex, or otherwise that has ever stated that the Wolfbrothers "turned to Wulfen" and were hunted down or were otherwise disbanded. Have you? If so, please don't hesitate to start providing your references right here in this thread and I'll be happy to look them up. I'm not saying it couldn't be, or hasn't been done. GW "retcon's" old fluff all the time, so I do not in any way think that it is impossible, I just haven't seen it. If you have, please point me in the right direction.

 

EDIT:

And if the chapter dissapeared how does that explain the 3 brothers I mentioned above?

 

Is this what you are talking about: "Wolf Brothers defected to Chaos as well as one Wolf Brother being apart of a Deathwatch kill team, both instances coming from the Ultramarines series." If so, I suppose it depends on "when" the events of these Wolfbrothers ocurred in the imaginary timeline of the universe. According to the article, the Wolfbrothers might not have dissapeared until some time in M37, so they were around as a Chapter doing those things that you would expect a Space Marine Chapter to do for 6-7,000 years. This "longevity" is a pretty good indication that the Wolfbrothers, just like their founding Legion, the Space Wolves, did not all turn into raving Wulfen due to genetic instability.

 

 

 

Regards,

 

V

[Jonny]

It appears Valerian has a good point (even if you ignore his ex script from white dwarf (and the rather "feathers ruffled tone" of his post)), To quote from both the second and fith edition codex's "The Space Wolves were divided only once, creating the ill-fated Wolfbrothers Chapter. Perhaps the High Lords recognised the problems of genetic instability that would plague the Legacy of Leman Russ, giving rise in later times to the terrible curse of the Wulfen.". The "later times" does indeed seem to suggest that it was a problem after the Wolfbrothers. I have a great fondness for being proved wrong, I'm not saying I like being wrong (quite the opposite) but I like being proved wrong because it stops me from continuing to be wrong, so Valerian I give you my thanks! I also thank you for posting the ex script from the white dwarf, I love SW fluff and hord all I can get my hands on but I also have a dislike for white dwarf and therefore miss any pertinent fluff in them.

 

Regards

Jonny

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

I was simply pointing out that recent fluff gathered from multiple sources has pointed towards the idea of the chapter being disbanded due to genetic instability (believed to be Wulfen) and not having dissapeared chasing Eldar which had to come from somewhere beings as it is the current belief held by many players. You will have to forgive the so called "ignorance" of every player who does not happen to have that issue of White Dwarf as we all cannot be so lucky in what we own.

 

Now since Valerian has such irrefutable proof concerning the Wolf Brothers fate the idea behind this post is mute. I would like to thank everyone who participated in it ;)

 

Also if you wish please spread the word of what really happened to the Space Wolf only successor so that we can dispell the mass ignorance players seem to have these days.

[Valerian]

It appears Valerian has a good point (even if you ignore his ex script from white dwarf (and the rather "feathers ruffled tone" of his post)),

 

Apologize for any "ruffled feathers tone," but I suppose that I was a little bugged that I had to provide answers for/respond to defend actual GW-provided background material. It was my opinion that if Jervis wrote it, then that ought to have pretty much settled it with no additional debate required.

 

I have a great fondness for being proved wrong, I'm not saying I like being wrong (quite the opposite) but I like being proved wrong because it stops me from continuing to be wrong, so Valerian I give you my thanks! I also thank you for posting the ex script from the white dwarf, I love SW fluff and hord all I can get my hands on but I also have a dislike for white dwarf and therefore miss any pertinent fluff in them.

 

No problem Brother Johnny. I don't keep up with White Dwarfs anymore, but back in the day they were actually pretty good magazines (and there wasn't nearly as much *internetz* going on), so I have a pretty extensive collection from the early years. Years ago, they even used to release new rules in the WD via "Chapter Approved", so if you wanted to be on top of the game, you really needed a subscription.

 

You will have to forgive the so called "ignorance" of every player who does not happen to have that issue of White Dwarf as we all cannot be so lucky in what we own.

 

Please don't be offended by the use of the term "ignorance", as it is simply the most accurate term for someone who does not know about a specific issue, point, or fact. I am ignorant of many things, too, of course - we all are. I would have been ignorant of the fate of the Wolfbrothers, too, had I not been relatively recently reminded of it, and went back to check my old magazines.

 

 

Best regards,

 

Valerian

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

It appears Valerian has a good point (even if you ignore his ex script from white dwarf (and the rather "feathers ruffled tone" of his post)),

 

Apologize for any "ruffled feathers tone," but I suppose that I was a little bugged that I had to provide answers for/respond to defend actual GW-provided background material. It was my opinion that if Jervis wrote it, then that ought to have pretty much settled it with no additional debate required.

 

I have a great fondness for being proved wrong, I'm not saying I like being wrong (quite the opposite) but I like being proved wrong because it stops me from continuing to be wrong, so Valerian I give you my thanks! I also thank you for posting the ex script from the white dwarf, I love SW fluff and hord all I can get my hands on but I also have a dislike for white dwarf and therefore miss any pertinent fluff in them.

 

No problem Brother Johnny. I don't keep up with White Dwarfs anymore, but back in the day they were actually pretty good magazines (and there wasn't nearly as much *internetz* going on), so I have a pretty extensive collection from the early years. Years ago, they even used to release new rules in the WD via "Chapter Approved", so if you wanted to be on top of the game, you really needed a subscription.

 

You will have to forgive the so called "ignorance" of every player who does not happen to have that issue of White Dwarf as we all cannot be so lucky in what we own.

 

Please don't be offended by the use of the term "ignorance", as it is simply the most accurate term for someone who does not know about a specific issue, point, or fact. I am ignorant of many things, too, of course - we all are. I would have been ignorant of the fate of the Wolfbrothers, too, had I not been relatively recently reminded of it, and went back to check my old magazines.

 

 

Best regards,

 

Valerian

 

No worries ;)

[Jonny]

Apologize for any "ruffled feathers tone," but I suppose that I was a little bugged that I had to provide answers for/respond to defend actual GW-provided background material. It was my opinion that if Jervis wrote it, then that ought to have pretty much settled it with no additional debate required.

 

Apology accepted, I'm sure we've all done it ourselves in the past (on both sides) ;)

 

No problem Brother Johnny. I don't keep up with White Dwarfs anymore, but back in the day they were actually pretty good magazines (and there wasn't nearly as much *internetz* going on), so I have a pretty extensive collection from the early years. Years ago, they even used to release new rules in the WD via "Chapter Approved", so if you wanted to be on top of the game, you really needed a subscription.

 

I am fortunate to have grown up in the day an age of the great internet's ;), no need of WD except for fluff or things like Spearhead (I did buy that WD mag) and fluff is most often repeated in novels or codex's.

 

Regards

Jonny