Wolf Claw v. Frost Weapon

[wolf363839]

I have always used a Frost Blade / SS on my Thunderwolf Lord. I agree that against most non-vehicle targets the math works out better for a Wolf Claw, but a FB/SS just looks better when he is riding the beast than a "weird looking" combo of WC/SS.

 

More importantly, having a S 6 has come in handy more than once. For example, you can glance a Dreadnought and/or achieve a penetrating hit on a Leman Russ Demolisher (rear AV 11).

[TiguriusX]

People contributing false information to this thread should suffer the wrath of an exterminatus sock. I learned the value of rerolls on the blood filled arenas of Blood Bowl and it is my sacred duty to educate others on the power of a reroll.

 

Odds and probability of successive events can be complicated. Spouting falsehoods just makes the entire thing more problematic because fools repeat the false information.

This website is a good starting point for people who have no clue what they are discussing:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2...pg2.html?cat=24

 

 

Here is your TL:DR recap (too long didn't read):

Buy the WC!!! Use the points saved to buy a MB and you are superior against heavy armor and walkers as well

(1) Frost blade + SS is only better against T6+ for WL on foot and T7+ for WL on TWM. But if you are using a WC or FB against T6+ you are doing it wrong...a WL with WC or FB is built for killing masses of infantry and those guys don't have T6+;

(2) People who argue FB + Belt of Russ are placing far too much value in minor statistical adjustments in wounds caused due to A+1 and not enough value in wounds prevented with a 3++ instead of a 4++ to keep their valuable HQ alive; and

(3) Rerolls help fight bad luck regardless of the odds

 

As for the actual probability etc. A reroll with target numbers 1-5 is superior to a single roll of target numbers 0-4

S4 target T5 is 5+ to wound for WC and 4+ to wound for FB

4+ = 3/6 = 50%

5+ with reroll is 2/6 + 2/6 - 4/36 = 20/36 = 55%

 

 

Use that webpage I provided and run the numbers yourself if you need to confirm any other target number

[Wolfsrage]

Is there ever any reason to take a Wolf Lord on foot?

[TiguriusX]

Is there ever any reason to take a Wolf Lord on foot?

 

Personal preference for your army. Can shove him in a LR on foot etc.

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

But if you are using a WC or FB against T6+ you are doing it wrong...a WL with WC or FB is built for killing masses of infantry and those guys don't have T6+;

 

Quoted for truth. Better to leave super tough units to a regular Thunderwolf Cavalry dude with a powerfist or thunderhammer for example.

 

(2) People who argue FB + Belt of Russ are placing far too much value in minor statistical adjustments in wounds caused due to A+1 and not enough value in wounds prevented with a 3++ instead of a 4++ to keep their valuable HQ alive;

 

Word. A significant but minor increase in offense won't make up for a drastically reduced invulnerable save. 3++ means saving 2/3rds of the time, 4++ means only 1/2.

[Roland Durendal]

It really comes down to the roll you want your Wolf Lord to play and what other equipment you give him.

 

For a Lord on foot, if you want a T4 and below CC monster the WC is better. This is the guy your throw at regular line troops and watch as carnage ensues, particularly with Warrior Born. If you are foot bound but want to take out Elites or tougher opponents (fellow ICs for example), the FB is slightly better.

 

Now if he is mounted on a Thunderwolf, there is a slight shift. If you want a solid T5 and below killer, WC is the best choice, as he can still hold his own and match the FB against T6 and T7. If you want a lord who will almost always hunt T6-T7, then FB is probably the better choice (though marginally), and the added bonus is he can hurt AV11 more reliably (though this is mitigated by giving a WC Wolf Lord melta Bombs...or by the fact most vehicles have rear armor 10 and you can reroll your S5 attacks = more hits = greater chance of getting a glance/pen).

 

In all honesty though, if someone REALLY wanted to have a mounted Lord capable of smacking vehicles and T6-T10 around, the best combo would be a TH/SS as most creatures with that high T will out strike you in initiative anyway.

 

But yeah all my math on the last page is accurate for a mounted Wolf Lord if you want to see the comparisons.

[Demonslayer]

But if you are using a WC or FB against T6+ you are doing it wrong...a WL with WC or FB is built for killing masses of infantry and those guys don't have T6+;

 

Quoted for truth. Better to leave super tough units to a regular Thunderwolf Cavalry dude with a powerfist or thunderhammer for example.

 

This is just pure Heresy, By Russ, Its the job of a Wolf Lord to take on the biggest B@ Unit just to say 'This is why I'm the Wolf Lord'

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

But if you are using a WC or FB against T6+ you are doing it wrong...a WL with WC or FB is built for killing masses of infantry and those guys don't have T6+;

 

Quoted for truth. Better to leave super tough units to a regular Thunderwolf Cavalry dude with a powerfist or thunderhammer for example.

 

This is just pure Heresy, By Russ, Its the job of a Wolf Lord to take on the biggest B@ Unit just to say 'This is why I'm the Wolf Lord'

 

If this is his intended job, then he should use a powerfist or thunderhammer for that job. If he's using a wolf claw or a frost blade, kinda stupid to be seeking out Toughness 7 monsters.

[Wolfsrage]

Toughness 6 monsters. ;) I do miss my T7 Carnifexes though.

[moltenchicken]

I am curious if you MUST use your special weapon or if you can choose. If you can choose then a wolf lord on a TWM can choose not to use the wolf claw and therefor would gain the rending rule and would have a change to PEN AV 13 even. it might not be a large chance but against imobile vehicles where the reroll of the claw is meaningless rending would be a better option. Well now that in the codex I look at it in order to get a claw and a SS he has to replace both his pistol and CCW. so he would have no other weapon other than the claw. What do you guys think?

[Grimtooth]

I am curious if you MUST use your special weapon or if you can choose. If you can choose then a wolf lord on a TWM can choose not to use the wolf claw and therefor would gain the rending rule and would have a change to PEN AV 13 even. it might not be a large chance but against imobile vehicles where the reroll of the claw is meaningless rending would be a better option. Well now that in the codex I look at it in order to get a claw and a SS he has to replace both his pistol and CCW. so he would have no other weapon other than the claw. What do you guys think?

 

It is up to debate.

 

The only time you can choose between weapons is when you have two different special weapons.

 

Rending is done with teeth, claws, and hands. The only place you find Rending ccw weapons in the BRB is under the special ccw heading.

 

So, the hands, claws, and teeth of a TWM/TWC are rending special weapons and thus you are able to choose between them or another special close combat weapon.

 

Others will say that they are not special ccw, but have nothing RAW to back it up.

[The_Betrayed_Spacewolf]

im pretty sure you cant choose not to use a special weapon if you have it in close combat. if you have a pair of specials such as power fist and frost blade then you choose which one you have, however you cant just not choose a weapon to use if you only have one

[Lord Rao]

The question of what attacks count as rending is really just off topic.

That said (and I just can't help myself from replying here) is that ALL attacks on a TWM or from TWC count as rending, including ccw and even bolt pistols in close combat, but not those weapons with special rules (i.e. power weapons, claws, THs, etc.).

 

Back on topic:

This thread has been really useful/enlightening for me.

For both a WL on foot and one on a TW, the WC wins out.

For all you modelling junkies out there who love their models to be wysiwyg (like me) there's always magnets if you can't make up your mind or regularly find yourself facing T6+ big nasties.

 

 

LR