IcemanAAO Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 good evening brothers okay, so im a Wolves player and my girlfriend has just recently bought Blood Angels i had my army a little while before she took up the game and i got rather familiar with my codex so, the Wolves are supposed to be an army based upon mighty heroes, yes? among the greatest warriors ever to live, Logan, Ragnar, Bjorn etc etc were also supposed to be beer drinking, close combat seeking, finger flipping nutters right? so then why on the emperors throne, do the Blood Angels heroes totally eclipse anything ive ever seen? i read through the section on the Sanguinor and seriously... what did the chump ever actually do? his stats are insane then i came across Mephiston and couldnt believe my eyes, he costs roughly the same as Ragnar Blackmane and although ive not actually play tested it, i think if they met each other on the field, Ragnar would eat it practically every time. also, to say the Space Wolves are supposed to value heroes more than anyone else, we really dont have that many unique models to choose from i dont think, especially not compared to the BA's. it seems to me that for all intents and purposes the Blood Angels have stolen all of the thunder the wolves have to offer i think personally, GW went a little bit mental with them and got slightly over excited, i mean Arjac Rockfist, nicknamed 'The Anvil of Fenris' has S5... but Mephiston, regular sized dude... rather large mind has S6?? dosnt seem right to me whats your views on this? and apologies if this is in the wrong place, i wasn't really sure where to put it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207069-codex-blood-angels/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakobus Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 You should note that both of the Special characters you've noted do not have the IC rule so can not join squads. Mephiston IS a powerhouse, and can do massive damage to an army but he is not an I WIN button. Sanguinor is strong, but he works better with other units that he can not join. But yeah, not really a rules question is it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207069-codex-blood-angels/#findComment-2469850 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 By fluff Blood angels have always been more CC oriented then wolves and better at it. Wolves are in it for the bragging rights, Blood Angels simply have an inborn desire to slaughter :P. Heck they get so into the whole killing thing that the Salamanders (the Broist of marines) had to stop them from killing imperial civilians, they are pretty close to loyalist Khronites. Also mephiston is one of the greatest psykers in the imperium and has trancended the Blood Angels rage, which is a realy freeking big deal, not quite primarch level stuff, but its up there. No idea whats up with that Sanguinor dude though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207069-codex-blood-angels/#findComment-2469873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Not a rules question, but a SW question- chucking to the Wolf Lords. The two characters you mentioned are very powerful neo-monstrous creatures, and yes they are burly. They also drop to rapid firing plasma shots, and are meant to try and make their points back. Some BA players swear by mephiston, but Ive yet to hear any good reveiws of the Sanguinor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207069-codex-blood-angels/#findComment-2469881 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderhawk3015 Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 My long fangs would like a word with you regarding how to deal with the Sanguinor and Mephiston. Both look good on paper but they still die to massed AP2 weapon fire and a couple well placed bolter shots. The only issue I have is their Apothecaries giving FNP and Furious charge for their points cost, elites choice or not. Past that, shoot them with insta killing weapons then clean up in close combat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207069-codex-blood-angels/#findComment-2469899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneSniperSG Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 By fluff Blood angels have always been more CC oriented then wolves and better at it. Okay.. so then what style of army are we? We ignore many rules laid down in the Codex: Astartes, making us one of, if not, the most invidualized Space Marine chapters around, but how does that correspond into our doctrine, or lack of? If we're not the nastiest in CC, or the Shootiest, or have the nastiest vehicles then what defines us as an army on the table or in our book? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207069-codex-blood-angels/#findComment-2469922 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitzkreig Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 By fluff Blood angels have always been more CC oriented then wolves and better at it. Okay.. so then what style of army are we? We ignore many rules laid down in the Codex: Astartes, making us one of, if not, the most invidualized Space Marine chapters around, but how does that correspond into our doctrine, or lack of? If we're not the nastiest in CC, or the Shootiest, or have the nastiest vehicles then what defines us as an army on the table or in our book? We blast you to hell with our Bolters, laugh when you charge us and crack you in the face with said bolters before turning around and doing it again... No other army in the game can match the Wolves in a close quarters fight. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207069-codex-blood-angels/#findComment-2469929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Scourge Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 We're a mix of good CC and good shooting. Why complain? BA players deserve cool toys too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207069-codex-blood-angels/#findComment-2469933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneSniperSG Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 We're a mix of good CC and good shooting. Why complain? BA players deserve cool toys too. Well ya.. I'm only miffed that they have their Baal Predator, and our Chapter-flavor tank was taken away. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207069-codex-blood-angels/#findComment-2469937 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 By fluff Blood angels have always been more CC oriented then wolves and better at it. Okay.. so then what style of army are we? We ignore many rules laid down in the Codex: Astartes, making us one of, if not, the most invidualized Space Marine chapters around, but how does that correspond into our doctrine, or lack of? If we're not the nastiest in CC, or the Shootiest, or have the nastiest vehicles then what defines us as an army on the table or in our book? Read your codex, specifically the entries for the various companies. Individual wolf lords dictate the battle doctrine of their companies through their personalities and personal beliefs of how war should be fought. Individualistic at the company level but an extremely cohesive and flexible force when gathered or tasked by the leadership of the Great Wolf. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207069-codex-blood-angels/#findComment-2469943 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Runner Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Personally, while game-wise Mephiston is not unbalanced in game terms due to his point cost and play restrictions, design-wise he is just ridiculous. GW or Matt Ward have taken one of the most beloved characters in the 40K universe and turned him into a farce. His stats are ridiculous as well as his new fluff. Anyway, imo if a BA player needs Mephiston to win games he is probably not much of a player. The only way I can personally reconcile this stupidity is by convincing myself that it is not really Mephiston but a doppleganger demon-prince impersonating the mighty hero. Maybe in the next Great Hunt we should keep an eye out for the real Mephiston while searching for Russ. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207069-codex-blood-angels/#findComment-2469946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 We're a mix of good CC and good shooting. Why complain? BA players deserve cool toys too. Well ya.. I'm only miffed that they have their Baal Predator, and our Chapter-flavor tank was taken away. You mean when they forgot to mention we invented the annihilator? Seriously though, plenty of stuff to kill BAs with, and plenty of killy in our own HQs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207069-codex-blood-angels/#findComment-2469950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneSniperSG Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 We're a mix of good CC and good shooting. Why complain? BA players deserve cool toys too. Well ya.. I'm only miffed that they have their Baal Predator, and our Chapter-flavor tank was taken away. You mean when they forgot to mention we invented the annihilator? Seriously though, plenty of stuff to kill BAs with, and plenty of killy in our own HQs. Actually they did forget that in the Predator lore. That had me cursing for a minute or so. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207069-codex-blood-angels/#findComment-2469953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitewolfmxc Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 We're a mix of good CC and good shooting. Why complain? BA players deserve cool toys too. Well ya.. I'm only miffed that they have their Baal Predator, and our Chapter-flavor tank was taken away. You mean when they forgot to mention we invented the annihilator? Seriously though, plenty of stuff to kill BAs with, and plenty of killy in our own HQs. Thought he meant the Russ tank XD Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207069-codex-blood-angels/#findComment-2469969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 By fluff Blood angels have always been more CC oriented then wolves and better at it. Hahahah... No. Compare the number of attacks we often get to the number of attacks they often get. We, by and large, usually get more. Their CC prowness is dependent on a lot of special ICs. A few unlucky rolls in the shooting phase, and they may lose that bonus. I'm not saying we're better, I'm saying we both have different qualities that makes us both good at. Also if you're generally concerned on how Mephiston makes us less heroic or whatever, consider that we are pretty much the only army that can craft a character capable of shattering him reliably with just the Wolf Lord entry and 250 points of our own. Consider... Wolf Lord - Saga of the Bear, Thunderwolf Mount, Wolf Tooth Necklace, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield. Barring the terrible possibility of actually failing three storm shield saves, you'll kill him in two assault phases. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207069-codex-blood-angels/#findComment-2469977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CainTheHunter Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 SW characters have amazing fluff written about them, but sadly this part is not enough incorporated in their rules. In books Ragnar is more badass than in Codex:Space Wolves Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207069-codex-blood-angels/#findComment-2470000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcemanAAO Posted July 23, 2010 Author Share Posted July 23, 2010 SW characters have amazing fluff written about them, but sadly this part is not enough incorporated in their rules. In books Ragnar is more badass than in Codex:Space Wolves AGREED! i feverishly read the Ragnar Blackmane saga and the man is a nutter, ive never read someone who killed so much nor kicked half as much ass yet GW obviously thought he wasn't that great, even when his story has been around and growing for over 20 years... whas' up wi' that? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207069-codex-blood-angels/#findComment-2470106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjaco Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Maybe I got lucky, but I had a Blood Claw with Power Weapon and a Grey Hunter with a Power Fist bump off Mephiston. He lost tow warp rolls and my two took out the other three wounds so that was it for him. It was a good fight though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207069-codex-blood-angels/#findComment-2470112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 After a re- review, I've decided to reopen the thread. I'd encourage the topic starter come up with more specific questions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207069-codex-blood-angels/#findComment-2470141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LithiumBurn Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 My problems with the Blood Angels, an ancient and revered chapter, doesn't have anything to do whether it is overpowered or not. In terms of power level we Wolves have little to complain about. My problem is with Matt Ward. He seems to do things for no reason or very little. These crazy characters are ridiculous. As with his work with C:SM there is little reason for why he does the things he does. Chaplain Cassius T6? Oh, well, he has a lot of robot parts is a tough old dude. Mephiston? Well, he's a really powerful psyker so let's make him a demon prince. Don't get me wrong, I would take Njal over Mephiston. For one thing, Njal actually feels like a psyker. Ol' Mephy doesn't feel like a psyker. While Phil Kelly certainly does not write weak codices, there is some logic behind it. He does not seem to simply decide that something is going to be awesome and so throw a bunch of stats at it. Of course, thunderwolves are an exception. I get the rage the Blood Angels have, it's the toys they get I don't like. The librarian dreadnought, the crazy nonsense characters, the sanguinary priests, the DEEP STRIKING LAND RAIDERS! Yeah I get it, they're getting dropped by thunderhawks...but come on. Of course, a person is able to take a perfectly viable Blood Angels force without numerous :cuss moments. I do miss our Leman Russ though.... Wow, this is my first post here and I did not realize a three letter abbreviation for an exclamation is edited....I want to repeat what is said. What the...? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207069-codex-blood-angels/#findComment-2471797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpsilver Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 Matt Ward seems to have a history of writing terribly bad novels or codex. Don't codex get moderated/reviewed before release? People were sceptical when Phil Kelley wrote the Wolves' Codex, now looking at it, he did a fantastic job of it. And didn't give them ridiculous stat-lines however Matty seems to have to failed to follow this same rhythm. Mephiston being an extremely powerful Librarian and a better Close-Combat character? Than the Chapter-Master of the Space Wolves? Hur Hur. Yeah, I would understand if he was just a powerful Librarian, but CC as well? Q bloody Q. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207069-codex-blood-angels/#findComment-2471918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 Matt Ward seems to have a history of writing terribly bad novels or codex. Don't codex get moderated/reviewed before release? People were sceptical when Phil Kelley wrote the Wolves' Codex, now looking at it, he did a fantastic job of it. And didn't give them ridiculous stat-lines however Matty seems to have to failed to follow this same rhythm. Mephiston being an extremely powerful Librarian and a better Close-Combat character? Than the Chapter-Master of the Space Wolves? Hur Hur. Yeah, I would understand if he was just a powerful Librarian, but CC as well? Q bloody Q. Look back at older codexes. Mephiston has always been great in combat. Strength and toughness 5 in the old PDF and used to be able to use 4 powers a turn. He's tougher now, but he was always going to give Logan a good fight one on one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207069-codex-blood-angels/#findComment-2471926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpsilver Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 I understand that Mephiston, as his name implies, is incredibly powerful, however Matt Ward seems to have gone far and beyond giving any other Special Character a good fight. In regards to giving Logan a good fight, he would annihilate the Great Wolf. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207069-codex-blood-angels/#findComment-2471932 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 Didn't this thread already get locked because it just ended up being a BA bashing thread? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207069-codex-blood-angels/#findComment-2471947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 Didn't this thread already get locked because it just ended up being a BA bashing thread? Lord Ragnarok re-opened it a few posts up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207069-codex-blood-angels/#findComment-2471978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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