Codex Blood Angels

[Xeenos]

Thing is, Space Wolf heros work with their squads. Mephy is basicly a monster and he works alone, easy to shoot down for example. Logan isnt likly to be shot to death.. Ragnar IS a freak if used int he right places. Arjac is my favorit hero in our dex by far becouse he simply can not be attacked while the squad still lives. That is EPIC.

 

Whats really unbeliveable about the Blood Angles dex is their tanks.. Fast Attack with no extra cost? When i first heard i thought it was no biggy, they would have some sort of supped up engion as an upgrade for like 50 points. Making it a large investment for a huge powerup.

 

WRONG!

 

Its a long way to the next Dex but i think some things will be scrapped. Fast tanks for free i feel will be removed, Deep Strike on Land Raiders might be extended accross all Dex. Librarian Dred might spread accross all Dex. Such is the pattern so far.. first we had Bjorn, then we lost him and got a Ven Dred.. then EVERYONE got a Ven Dred.. Why? Becouse it makes sence. If Space Wolves have really old Dreds, then anyone else can have the same. Along that logic, if Blood Angles have Librarian Dreds, why not everyone else? I think it will get spread out.

[JamesI]

Thing is, Space Wolf heros work with their squads. Mephy is basicly a monster and he works alone, easy to shoot down for example. Logan isnt likly to be shot to death.. Ragnar IS a freak if used int he right places. Arjac is my favorit hero in our dex by far becouse he simply can not be attacked while the squad still lives. That is EPIC.

 

Whats really unbeliveable about the Blood Angles dex is their tanks.. Fast Attack with no extra cost? When i first heard i thought it was no biggy, they would have some sort of supped up engion as an upgrade for like 50 points. Making it a large investment for a huge powerup.

Where did you get the idea that fast for our vehicles was free?

 

We pay 15 points more per rhino/razorback. We pay 30 points more for Vindicators.

 

Predators are 10 points more, and the sponsons cost more.

 

Fast is not free for our vehicles.

[Stormbrow II]

Where did you get the idea that fast for our vehicles was free?

We pay 15 points more per rhino/razorback. We pay 30 points more for Vindicators.

Predators are 10 points more, and the sponsons cost more.

Fast is not free for our vehicles.

What are you doing in our section of the forum? Why are you here spouting your answers based on logic and reason?

 

Don't listen to his lies. The BA book is broken, far more broken than the SW book. The sky is falling - it says so in the BA book. Its in the back...

[Jonny]

honestly I don't want us to be like BA, If I wanted BA's rules I'd play as BA's. There are indeed thing in our codex that fluff wise don't make sense and things they have that we don't but we both have very strong codex's. Personally there more differences between different Space Marine Chapters the better, it would really annoy me if the only reason I had to but buy a SW's codex was just for fluff and a few special characters over the regular SM codex. I would like it fluff wise is our HQ's were tougher in comparison to theirs but I'm sure they'd love it if their guy could join a unit. It would be nice to have a lot of thing other codex's have and I'm sure they would love some of our things but it would ruin the point of multiple codex's if it was done. The only place where I think our codex is really at fault are Blood Claws being pointless 90% of the time excluding the fun factor (but their is a topic for that), other than that there are fluff things but you need to balance it out with other codex's if you want to add them in and also stopping codex's being too similar should also be at the forefront of your mind.

[Spazmonkey]

Where did you get the idea that fast for our vehicles was free?

We pay 15 points more per rhino/razorback. We pay 30 points more for Vindicators.

Predators are 10 points more, and the sponsons cost more.

Fast is not free for our vehicles.

What are you doing in our section of the forum? Why are you here spouting your answers based on logic and reason?

 

Don't listen to his lies. The BA book is broken, far more broken than the SW book. The sky is falling - it says so in the BA book. Its in the back...

 

 

hahahah so much lolz.... yo sir are full of Win..

[Lord Ragnarok]

Let's come up with some specific questions/points relating SW v/s BA. Needs to be kept clinical and scientific, with a healthy dose of logic, or this thread will run its course.

[Quillen]

Nah Mephiston is broke. Period. I have never seen him walk across a board so I could kill him. He is always in a LRC with an assault squad lead by a priest. So he will make it into melee somewhere and kill something very important faster then an Eldar. That is lame in my book.

 

 

And indeed I had home made rules for Librain and Chaplian dreads already. If they were going to add them they should have done it in the Vanilla codex and all the first founded books too. It's more balanced.

 

They are making big mistakes right now. And it's hurting them in my book. They are not thinking this stuff through.

[JamesI]

Nah Mephiston is broke. Period. I have never seen him walk across a board so I could kill him. He is always in a LRC with an assault squad lead by a priest. So he will make it into melee somewhere and kill something very important faster then an Eldar. That is lame in my book.

 

 

As Mephiston is not an IC, he can not join a unit. Whoever is using him in the way you describe is cheating.

[Blitzkreig]

Nah Mephiston is broke. Period. I have never seen him walk across a board so I could kill him. He is always in a LRC with an assault squad lead by a priest. So he will make it into melee somewhere and kill something very important faster then an Eldar. That is lame in my book.

 

 

And indeed I had home made rules for Librain and Chaplian dreads already. If they were going to add them they should have done it in the Vanilla codex and all the first founded books too. It's more balanced.

 

They are making big mistakes right now. And it's hurting them in my book. They are not thinking this stuff through.

 

Arjac and a 4 man Wolf Guard squad with TDA, Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields can annhilate Mephiston.

 

As for the bolded part, two words for you mate, Matt Ward.

[LoneSniperSG]

Here. I can think of a few key questions.

 

 

For those of us not up with the ins and outs of the new BA codex (I know a few things from swiping my friend's copy for my own learning), what are the big nasties to avoid? What tends to be abused? What is something to not be shaken by?

 

I can say from personal experience, no IG army should ever let itself get too close to Death Co. Dreadnoughts with Blood Talons. Fortunately he didn't get to shred anything other than my Company Command Squad for two turns.

 

Marine armies shouldn't have too much trouble with them as a passed armor save can stop the rampage, but the softer units such as Scouts or broken up squads will likely feel the pain. I'd only reccomend assaulting a DC Dread with Terminators, or a PA Wolf Guard pack with several hard hitters

[molsonbeagle]

Now I know next to nothing about the BA codex, but to the OP's OP...Yes, wolves are meant to be an army of heroes, which explains the insane amount of customization we have with our WL, WGBL, RP, WG, TWC, etc so on and so forth. I'm actually glad they didn't give us a heap of godly unique characters, it would put oneof the most fun part of playing/making a wolf list out of business.

[WG Vrox]

I can see some CEO at GW telling Matt, I want you to write a dex that sells models (period). There is a reason for codex creep and it caters to the power gamer who has to have the best and biggest, he will drop his current army and spend 100s perhaps 1000s to get it. Wait till the results are in on some major tournaments, if BA continually comes out on top soon every power gamer will be using their shaved loaded dice and brag about his easy win all over the forums. ( they just cant help themselves)

 

Soon the new stereo type of BA players will piss off the old hard core BA players enough so that it ruins the game for them. The old players will then sell their models to the new players and create a flood of models available on the used market. Soon the power gamers will not be able to feed their need to throw the beat down at the local game store and/ or friendly game because no one will play them. Soon after a newer shinier codex will arrive and they move on to a different codex.

 

So very simple if you think the BA codex is overpowered, exercise your right to refuse a game to them. If you like the challenge they represent and want to work toward finding their weakness, then rise to the challenge like a true Space Wolf Lord and build a list that trounces them into the ground.

 

I for one am glad that we did not get stuck with the stigma of being "overpowered" and attracting all the power gamers to our ranks. Like it just fine!

 

-Vrox

[Persephone 66]

Where did you get the idea that fast for our vehicles was free?

 

We pay 15 points more per rhino/razorback. We pay 30 points more for Vindicators.

 

Predators are 10 points more, and the sponsons cost more.

 

Fast is not free for our vehicles.

 

Yeah that.

 

Actually, most everything in te BA codex is more expensive than in the Space Marines or Space Wolves codexes.

 

Comparing C:BA to C:SW is almost like comparing apples to oranges as I see it. Not really much to yap about. My girlfriend plays BAs as well.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

I see a few Wolves have fallen into the the infamous trap.

 

Why assume the Wolves are supposed to be the ultimate CC army of the space marines? They are not, that honour goes to the Blod Angels, always has since 2nd ed.

 

people continue to be blinded by the CC abilities of the Spcae Wolves and forget the MOST important aspect of them.

 

Now for the Space Wolf mantra, learn it, love it, live by it:

 

 

Whatever a Space Wolf can't beat up close, he can beat at range. Whatever a Space Wolf can't beat at range, he can beat up close!

 

Look at a Grey Hunter Squad, it's a Tactical squad and an assault squad in the same package and cheaper than a codex tactical squad aswell!

[Requiem of the Wolf]

We are not the best at any one thing. But Wolves fight smart....we aren't predictable. Unlike almost every other codex you have out there with only one or two ways to victory,Wolves can do anything well enough to beat any opponent.

 

 

Think of it like this...a Wolf Pack can take down a Grizzly bear. They do it by fighting smart,and not letting the Grizzly choose the fight. Our codex works the same way. If you are playing smart....you can force the fights to happen on your terms,where you have the advantage.

 

Fighting a gun line of Tau? We can get in close and rip their greater good right out their suits.

Fighting a Death Company assault? We can force them to come to us,burying them under a firestorm of hell and bullets.

 

 

We can go head to head against the other codex's at their strengths,and do decently.

We can go against their weaknesses and rip them apart in record time.

 

Sure there are things that the Angels got that I think we should have gotten too. Mainly Scout Bikes. I think we should have also been able to customize our Dreads as much as we customize our Wolf Guard. To be able to turn them into Long Range Fire support (As if they were originally a Long Fang) to making them a balanced fighter (As if they come from the ranks of the Grey Hunters) to Being a close combat Monster (As if they had been a Wolf Guard)

 

Russ wasn't the best with a Blade...That honor fell to the Lion. But he was damn good with a Blade. He wasn't the best Tactician,that was Guilliman. But he was a damn good tactician and battle commander. He wasn't the strongest...That was the Iron Hands guy if I remember correctly. But he was hell on wheels in a fistfight and more then able to hold his own.He wasn't even the favored son...That was Horus. But he was loved by all that followed him. He wasn't the sneakiest...That was the Night Lord Primarch as I remember...But he was like a wolf on the hunt,tireless and stealthy.

 

The truth of the Space Wolves is this: Anything you can do well,we can do almost as well but anything you can't do...we can do that pretty good too.

[IcemanAAO]

how would one go about bringing down the Sanguinor? ive just woken up and cant be bothered to go get the BA Dex, but is he and IC? can he join some Sanguinary Guard? i know he has a 3+ invunerable save and WS8... cant understand why tbf, by his entry in the dex, i dont remember him doing that much!

[Max_Dammit]

In short, we are the legion killer ;)

 

The only thing I LOATH in the BA dex is that mask nonsense, buff your army all you want, but stay away from the stats of my army, this takes away a small part of the fun in my eye, its MY army MY book, stay away from MY stats.

[JamesI]

how would one go about bringing down the Sanguinor? ive just woken up and cant be bothered to go get the BA Dex, but is he and IC? can he join some Sanguinary Guard? i know he has a 3+ invunerable save and WS8... cant understand why tbf, by his entry in the dex, i dont remember him doing that much!

Sanguinor is not an IC. Sure he has 3 wounds and eternal warrior. But he's not unkillable (heck, he's easier to kill than Lysander from the Marine dex)

[Pigeons]

By fluff Blood angels have always been more CC oriented then wolves and better at it.

Hahahah... No.

 

Compare the number of attacks we often get to the number of attacks they often get. We, by and large, usually get more.

 

Their CC prowness is dependent on a lot of special ICs. A few unlucky rolls in the shooting phase, and they may lose that bonus.

 

I'm not saying we're better, I'm saying we both have different qualities that makes us both good at.

 

 

 

 

Also if you're generally concerned on how Mephiston makes us less heroic or whatever, consider that we are pretty much the only army that can craft a character capable of shattering him reliably with just the Wolf Lord entry and 250 points of our own. Consider...

Wolf Lord - Saga of the Bear, Thunderwolf Mount, Wolf Tooth Necklace, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield.

 

Barring the terrible possibility of actually failing three storm shield saves, you'll kill him in two assault phases.

 

 

 

 

i like how you laugh at his comment about fluff and your counter-argument as to why it's wrong is all about game terms.

[JamesI]

Here. I can think of a few key questions.

 

 

For those of us not up with the ins and outs of the new BA codex (I know a few things from swiping my friend's copy for my own learning), what are the big nasties to avoid? What tends to be abused? What is something to not be shaken by?

 

I can say from personal experience, no IG army should ever let itself get too close to Death Co. Dreadnoughts with Blood Talons. Fortunately he didn't get to shred anything other than my Company Command Squad for two turns.

 

Marine armies shouldn't have too much trouble with them as a passed armor save can stop the rampage, but the softer units such as Scouts or broken up squads will likely feel the pain. I'd only reccomend assaulting a DC Dread with Terminators, or a PA Wolf Guard pack with several hard hitters

DC dreads ignore armor. I would only assault them with units with really good invul saves, or really high initiative.

 

Honestly, wolf counterattack helps balance the two armies a lot. If we charge you, generally the only advantage is we go first due to furious charge while you've had the opprotunity to rapid fire on us then have just as many (or more) attacks then we do.

 

The Wolf codex is really good so I always get surprised how much hatred gets extended towards the BA

[whitewolfmxc]

In short, we are the legion killer :)

 

The only thing I LOATH in the BA dex is that mask nonsense, buff your army all you want, but stay away from the stats of my army, this takes away a small part of the fun in my eye, its MY army MY book, stay away from MY stats.

 

Bloody dam right , that mask is made out of pure BS from Mr WARD

[Hfran Morkai]

With regards to what I find in a Blood Angels list.

 

Mephiston-Yep, he's a nasty warmage of doom, try and hit him with high strength/low AP weapons at range if at all possible. A Rune Priest to shut down his psychic powers would be a fantastic bonus because he moves fast and deals the hurt. Combat is nasty with him but it is possible to win, especially if he lost wounds due to shooting.

 

Baals-These scare me, the fast scout move is just outrageous because it means they can be up in your face turn one whilst firing all their weapons. The Assault Cannons can still inflict the hurt upon Power Armoured packs due to good old rending. I've had a Flamestorm Baal vaporise an entire pack in a turn once before, these are normally my top priority for destruction in whichever way I can.

 

Other Fast Vehicles-It hurts when that Razorback storms up and unleashes more firepower into say some of your support units, hard to kill in combat if the player is using them right by keeping them on the move. But they are still Razorbacks, anything stronger than a Bolter can bring it down.

 

Sanguinary Priests-These upset me because we have no way of getting Feel No Pain (FNP), yes I'm jealous of that, even if it would only apply to the pack the WP joined and included a price bump to account for it. 50 points for a 6 inch bubble of FNP and Furious Charge seems silly. I don't care if he only has one wound, because players hide them from combat in order to preserve their usefulness (It's only 50 points! That's nothing!), you wouldn't see many Space Wolf players hiding their Wolf priests if they filled a similar role I reckon. If they get the charge with one of these guys near you'll be going last, which means against a Blood Angels list it is advantageous for us to get the charge so we can have more individuals fighting.

 

These are the things I've been subject to, and loathe, but I will adapt. For that is what we do.

[The Son of Russ]

By fluff Blood angels have always been more CC oriented then wolves and better at it.

Hahahah... No.

 

Compare the number of attacks we often get to the number of attacks they often get. We, by and large, usually get more.

 

Their CC prowness is dependent on a lot of special ICs. A few unlucky rolls in the shooting phase, and they may lose that bonus.

 

I'm not saying we're better, I'm saying we both have different qualities that makes us both good at.

 

 

 

 

Also if you're generally concerned on how Mephiston makes us less heroic or whatever, consider that we are pretty much the only army that can craft a character capable of shattering him reliably with just the Wolf Lord entry and 250 points of our own. Consider...

Wolf Lord - Saga of the Bear, Thunderwolf Mount, Wolf Tooth Necklace, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield.

 

Barring the terrible possibility of actually failing three storm shield saves, you'll kill him in two assault phases.

 

Read the wolf lord entry, you can't take a storm shield and a thunder hammer, it says take thunder hammer or storm shield.

and there is no other weapon choices. additions, apart from the termie upgrade weapon replacements.

[The Son of Russ]

We are not the best at any one thing. But Wolves fight smart....we aren't predictable. Unlike almost every other codex you have out there with only one or two ways to victory,Wolves can do anything well enough to beat any opponent.

 

 

Think of it like this...a Wolf Pack can take down a Grizzly bear. They do it by fighting smart,and not letting the Grizzly choose the fight. Our codex works the same way. If you are playing smart....you can force the fights to happen on your terms,where you have the advantage.

 

Fighting a gun line of Tau? We can get in close and rip their greater good right out their suits.

Fighting a Death Company assault? We can force them to come to us,burying them under a firestorm of hell and bullets.

 

 

We can go head to head against the other codex's at their strengths,and do decently.

We can go against their weaknesses and rip them apart in record time.

 

Sure there are things that the Angels got that I think we should have gotten too. Mainly Scout Bikes. I think we should have also been able to customize our Dreads as much as we customize our Wolf Guard. To be able to turn them into Long Range Fire support (As if they were originally a Long Fang) to making them a balanced fighter (As if they come from the ranks of the Grey Hunters) to Being a close combat Monster (As if they had been a Wolf Guard)

 

Russ wasn't the best with a Blade...That honor fell to the Lion. But he was damn good with a Blade. He wasn't the best Tactician,that was Guilliman. But he was a damn good tactician and battle commander. He wasn't the strongest...That was the Iron Hands guy if I remember correctly. But he was hell on wheels in a fistfight and more then able to hold his own.He wasn't even the favored son...That was Horus. But he was loved by all that followed him. He wasn't the sneakiest...That was the Night Lord Primarch as I remember...But he was like a wolf on the hunt,tireless and stealthy.

 

The truth of the Space Wolves is this: Anything you can do well,we can do almost as well but anything you can't do...we can do that pretty good too.

 

 

this is pretty much it.

 

Russ, quite arguably, was the most dangerous primarch, due to the fact tat he excelled in all areas.

The only people that could beat him in a straight up fight is Horus and the Emperor

And if you complain that russ could beat horus, then read page 8 and 9 of our codex, it says that horus was the greatest primarch.

[Vlk]

Read the wolf lord entry, you can't take a storm shield and a thunder hammer, it says take thunder hammer or storm shield.

and there is no other weapon choices. additions, apart from the termie upgrade weapon replacements.

 

Wrong. P.84 of our codex:

 

"Replace bolt pistol and/or close combat weapon with:

- boltgun

- storm bolter

- combi-flamer, combi-melta or combi-plasma

- power weapon or plasma pistol

- wolf claw

- power fist, frost blade or frost axe

- thunder hammer or storm shield"

 

So you replace bolt pistol for thunder hammer or storm shield and then you replace CCW with thunder hammer or storm shield. In the end, you have a Wolf Lord with TH/SS combo.