Codex Blood Angels

[Grey Mage]

By fluff Blood angels have always been more CC oriented then wolves and better at it. Wolves are in it for the bragging rights, Blood Angels simply have an inborn desire to slaughter <_<. Heck they get so into the whole killing thing that the Salamanders (the Broist of marines) had to stop them from killing imperial civilians, they are pretty close to loyalist Khronites. Also mephiston is one of the greatest psykers in the imperium and has trancended the Blood Angels rage, which is a realy freeking big deal, not quite primarch level stuff, but its up there. No idea whats up with that Sanguinor dude though.

 

 

err no, by the fluff (the older stuff) blood angels were just codex marines with a bad temper and a few toys, only with the new codex and the worst codex writer in the last 10 years did blood angels turn into loyalist zerkers.

Well... there was always the flesh tearers.

[Max_Dammit]

wel they now have a demon in there mids and if they're going the way of the flesh tearers, things are looking up for the boys in red <_<

[Kanis]

The points all mentioned in here are great, and valid. I'll be the first to admit, when the Angels first came out I believed them to be cheesy, but the more I see them play, the more I disbelieve it. Sure, they've got some unique, powerful stuff, but as mentioned, I think the majority of us fell into the trap of "new codex=broken." Even the player here that tries to create super-broke lists failed, as he had barely 25 models, and was easily stomped out, despite 2 characters and some priests.

 

Honestly, the only thing I really dislike about the new Angels codex, is the Dante ability to reduce the stats of one of my models, I think one army being able to reduce the power of another like this is wrong, and just doesn't need to happen. As soon as forces start being able to weaken/change what they fight, that makes things a bit obnoxious, for me anyway. Mind you, minor things like, -1 WS or such for a turn is okay, but not the majority of a character's stat-line for the entire game.

[Skirax]

The new books won't change anything. It's impossible. The BA are the most broken book ever released. They're to 40k what the Daemons of Chaos are to Fantasy - its usually only luck that determines whether you beat them or not.

I have to disagree. I lost two games to the BA when my friend started playing them, then I realised their weaknesses, targetted them, and began to pick his list apart, squad by squad.

[dswanick]

The points all mentioned in here are great, and valid. I'll be the first to admit, when the Angels first came out I believed them to be cheesy, but the more I see them play, the more I disbelieve it. Sure, they've got some unique, powerful stuff, but as mentioned, I think the majority of us fell into the trap of "new codex=broken." Even the player here that tries to create super-broke lists failed, as he had barely 25 models, and was easily stomped out, despite 2 characters and some priests.

 

Honestly, the only thing I really dislike about the new Angels codex, is the Dante ability to reduce the stats of one of my models, I think one army being able to reduce the power of another like this is wrong, and just doesn't need to happen. As soon as forces start being able to weaken/change what they fight, that makes things a bit obnoxious, for me anyway. Mind you, minor things like, -1 WS or such for a turn is okay, but not the majority of a character's stat-line for the entire game.

 

For the most part, I agree. Although, a WS6, S6, AV12 vehicle with 4 power weapon attacks that perpetually allow additional attacks so long as it causes wounds strikes me as more than a little game-breaking too.

[DV8]

You forget though that the Blood Talons makes a Furioso from a vehicle/monster killer to an infantry killer, and that a single weapon-destroyed result removes that ability entirely. Just shoot the Dreadnought until you kill it, immobilize it, or destroy a weapon, and you're good to go.

 

 

DV8

[LoneSniperSG]

You forget though that the Blood Talons makes a Furioso from a vehicle/monster killer to an infantry killer, and that a single weapon-destroyed result removes that ability entirely. Just shoot the Dreadnought until you kill it, immobilize it, or destroy a weapon, and you're good to go.

 

 

DV8

 

Not really, one armor save will stop that thing. If the Blood Talons cause successive wounds, then yes. If I remember right, they are not power weapons.

[DV8]

You forget though that the Blood Talons makes a Furioso from a vehicle/monster killer to an infantry killer, and that a single weapon-destroyed result removes that ability entirely. Just shoot the Dreadnought until you kill it, immobilize it, or destroy a weapon, and you're good to go.

 

 

DV8

 

Not really, one armor save will stop that thing. If the Blood Talons cause successive wounds, then yes. If I remember right, they are not power weapons.

 

They're lightning claws, so they reroll wounds, and ignore armor saves.

 

 

DV8

[Wysten]

Aye, though they always struck me as glass cannons. Devistating when they work, but blow a piece off and it loses the potencial to wreak squads. I can't see why anyone would take it over, say, a Dread with a Heavy Flamer, which can just drop pod, flamethrower the squad and possibly cause them to break, if out of range assualt cannon them. All without entering the assualt phase.

[Balian]

I guess I had the same thoughts as others when I first saw the BA codex. However, as a Black Templar, I think your codex is pretty cool, you're both good in assault AND at range, with some great models, fluffwise it's all good too. Hey, it could be worse, you could have no librarians, no whirlwinds, no devestators and no sniper scouts.

 

That said, from what I've seen, sure the BA's have some nails characters, without joining squads, unless they're very carefully hidden, just shoot them as per some of the previous suggestions. With the Death Company, don't they have "Rage" meaning that a skilled opponent would just put a bait squad in front of them and lead them on a merry dance around the table?

 

I'm looking forward to a new BT codex, you guys seem to have heard more rumours than I/we do? :) Although we'll probably lose much of the stuff that makes us cool.

 

Even as a former Dark Angels player though, I'm quite tempted by the SW as my next SM army. ;)

 

Cheers,

 

Balian

[Stormbrow II]

I have to disagree. I lost two games to the BA when my friend started playing them, then I realised their weaknesses, targetted them, and began to pick his list apart, squad by squad.

*ahem*

In case you couldn't tell from my faux-hysterical ranting, I'm actually in the group of people that believe that the BA book *isn't* overpowered. They're just different which is a good thing.

 

Blood Angels are grand - they're not one of the top 3 armies at the moment. That belongs to Guard, Wolves and arguably Marines but I'm not sure in what order they go.

 

I've got no problem fighting a BA list. I've got no problem fighting any list. I know the Wolves are more than capable of meeting anything and coming out victorious. I know my Wolves are more than capable of meeting anything and coming out victorious.

[Wysten]

Aye, I must admit, always liked Black Templars and Grey Knights. I really hope they give the former a immense kick as the true crusaiding army (I shiver at the throught of what this could mean, free power weapon along with free special weapon at 10 power armoured marines? Even cheaper the Grey Hunters but limited to 2 weapons? Units that can assualt when podded? Assualt Ramp everything? Bigger Rhinos and Razors? Interesting to see how they can make up for a lack of pshchic protection and flexability) and Grey Knights as the ultimate elite army. Lacking in number, but truely the best humanity has to offer.

 

Aside from Wolves of course. I already found the chapter I want to be a part of. ^^

[Balian]

Aye, I must admit, always liked Black Templars and Grey Knights. I really hope they give the former a immense kick as the true crusaiding army (I shiver at the throught of what this could mean,

 

Aside from Wolves of course. I already found the chapter I want to be a part of. ^^

 

You want to be a frothing at the mouth lunatic crusading madman, don't you. Admit it. Come onnnnn. ;)

 

Brother Balian

[Prosedragon]

For the people talking about how ridiculous Mephiston is - have you stopped to think about a superhuman warrior wearing fully powered armor made of super dense materials riding...a wolf?

 

A psyker slowly burning himself to death on his own power (re-read the fluff, that's what it sounds like to me) is way more believable, way more in line with the setting, and breaks the suspension of disbelief WAY less than a marine loping across the field on a wolf. Unless the wolf gets halfway there and then has to stop because his spine broke.

 

Today seemed like a day for incendiary comments - flame on.

[Lord Ragnarok]

The points all mentioned in here are great, and valid. I'll be the first to admit, when the Angels first came out I believed them to be cheesy, but the more I see them play, the more I disbelieve it. Sure, they've got some unique, powerful stuff, but as mentioned, I think the majority of us fell into the trap of "new codex=broken." Even the player here that tries to create super-broke lists failed, as he had barely 25 models, and was easily stomped out, despite 2 characters and some priests.

 

Honestly, the only thing I really dislike about the new Angels codex, is the Dante ability to reduce the stats of one of my models, I think one army being able to reduce the power of another like this is wrong, and just doesn't need to happen. As soon as forces start being able to weaken/change what they fight, that makes things a bit obnoxious, for me anyway. Mind you, minor things like, -1 WS or such for a turn is okay, but not the majority of a character's stat-line for the entire game.

 

 

Anything new is cheesy. Including when we came out. Folks have short memory.

[Wulf Vengis]

For the most part, I agree. Although, a WS6, S6, AV12 vehicle with 4 power weapon attacks that perpetually allow additional attacks so long as it causes wounds strikes me as more than a little game-breaking too.

You forget though that the Blood Talons makes a Furioso from a vehicle/monster killer to an infantry killer, and that a single weapon-destroyed result removes that ability entirely. Just shoot the Dreadnought until you kill it, immobilize it, or destroy a weapon, and you're good to go.

They're lightning claws, so they reroll wounds, and ignore armor saves.

 

Wold someone please explain to me what is going on with the Furioso Dreadnought as I am totally lost right now. I dont want to be on the rumors bench if I should have to line up across from them and not know what the hell it is.

[stinkenheim]

furisios can exchange their two DDCW for two blood talons.

Blood talons are str 6 lightning claws, plus if they have a pair they will generate additional attacks for every wound caused. These additional attacks will continue to build bonus attacks in the same mnner.

 

Now they are hard against basic infatry granted, but they are next to useless against vehicles/dreads or hard units like hammernators who have the inv save to limit the number of attacks generated.

Death company dreads are harder to stop than a standard furisio as they will ignore crew shaken/stunned plus they have fleet so can reach your lines quicker. they are subjected to rage though so can be kited around (although this is still a tricky thing to do).

[JamesI]

furisios can exchange their two DDCW for two blood talons.

Blood talons are str 6 lightning claws, plus if they have a pair they will generate additional attacks for every wound caused. These additional attacks will continue to build bonus attacks in the same mnner.

 

Now they are hard against basic infatry granted, but they are next to useless against vehicles/dreads or hard units like hammernators who have the inv save to limit the number of attacks generated.

Death company dreads are harder to stop than a standard furisio as they will ignore crew shaken/stunned plus they have fleet so can reach your lines quicker. they are subjected to rage though so can be kited around (although this is still a tricky thing to do).

Furiosos are also higher WS and higher front armor than DC dreads.

[Wulf Vengis]

Thank you Stink and thank you James for clarifying that for me.

 

How come the BA get special rules for their Dread claws? Weve only been using claws on Dreads long before them (in rules and model terms). 2nd edition Bjorns rules had taken this into effect, and most of GWs models for the modern Wolves Dreads actually have claws on them as well.

[Brother Nathan]

because ba are older than wolves? lol. Nah gw wants to sell more ironclads and as ba have the ability to take 11 in a single foc it makes sense to make them able to do something. Stil aint got anyhting on mariar though who had tear attack vs veichles(aka monsterous creature....)

And yes mepheston is powerful, has his weaknesses though with his lack of an inv save and amount of phsycic tests he takes he wount have many wounds for long.(goes well with a plasma pistol...) I think i would find it harder to kill a landraider with my list than meph. Plus hes supposed to be the closest thing we have to a primarch as ours is well dead... whilst we all know russ is alive and well in the eye of teror kicking chaos ass!

[Max_Dammit]

The points all mentioned in here are great, and valid. I'll be the first to admit, when the Angels first came out I believed them to be cheesy, but the more I see them play, the more I disbelieve it. Sure, they've got some unique, powerful stuff, but as mentioned, I think the majority of us fell into the trap of "new codex=broken." Even the player here that tries to create super-broke lists failed, as he had barely 25 models, and was easily stomped out, despite 2 characters and some priests.

 

Honestly, the only thing I really dislike about the new Angels codex, is the Dante ability to reduce the stats of one of my models, I think one army being able to reduce the power of another like this is wrong, and just doesn't need to happen. As soon as forces start being able to weaken/change what they fight, that makes things a bit obnoxious, for me anyway. Mind you, minor things like, -1 WS or such for a turn is okay, but not the majority of a character's stat-line for the entire game.

 

 

Anything new is cheesy. Including when we came out. Folks have short memory.

 

Has nothing to do with cheese, it has to do with fun factor of the game, this kind of thing would spoil the whole game from the get go, i dont care about bubbles that can be avoided, and think of it like this, where space marines, and SW at that, we dont flinch at the sight of a tyranid titan, but boy are we scared of his facial decoration :D

[Brother Yorei]

For the people talking about how ridiculous Mephiston is - have you stopped to think about a superhuman warrior wearing fully powered armor made of super dense materials riding...a wolf?

 

A psyker slowly burning himself to death on his own power (re-read the fluff, that's what it sounds like to me) is way more believable, way more in line with the setting, and breaks the suspension of disbelief WAY less than a marine loping across the field on a wolf. Unless the wolf gets halfway there and then has to stop because his spine broke.

 

Today seemed like a day for incendiary comments - flame on.

 

a psyker slowly burning himself to death..............actually, that applies to ALL psykers as it is just a matter of time before the warp gets its revenge on them for using it in such a way.

 

but mephy does seem to be on a shorter road, doesnt he?

[Requiem of the Wolf]

For the people talking about how ridiculous Mephiston is - have you stopped to think about a superhuman warrior wearing fully powered armor made of super dense materials riding...a wolf?

 

A psyker slowly burning himself to death on his own power (re-read the fluff, that's what it sounds like to me) is way more believable, way more in line with the setting, and breaks the suspension of disbelief WAY less than a marine loping across the field on a wolf. Unless the wolf gets halfway there and then has to stop because his spine broke.

 

Today seemed like a day for incendiary comments - flame on.

Considering the Wolf is described as being roughly the size of a Rhino APC,Weighing in at several tons. So by the same fact that a man can ride a horse for days because he wears 1/8th of the Horse's weight....So too can a Power Armor wearing Marine ride a Wolf that is the size of a Transport Carrier if not bigger. Not to mention that the Wolves are also being described as having had Cybernetic augmentation.

 

Stop thinking of the Thunderwolves in earth terms. They are close to the Size of a vehicle designed to hold 10 space marines.

[Timberhawk]

I haven't seen the other thunder wolf models out there but I finally saw Canis first hand the other day. You can say what you want about how it looks but I have no doubts that the thing can carry a SM in power armor based on its size alone.

[Blitzkreig]

If you read the codex it says that Thunderwolves are closer in anatomy to a rhinoceroid than a wolf... think of it as giant supermen riding rhinos.