Captain Conrad Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 In the Cypher fluff in the latest DA codex it mentions the idea that the inner circle "They would willingly perform almost any act, no matter how vile, in order to capture or kill him." So this got me thinking how far would the DA go to try capture Cypher, would they co-ordinate with black legion lets say to let them take over a system in return for the location of cypher or would they willingly let another another chapter be totally destroyed if it meant they had a small chance of taking cypher. What are your thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207135-the-hunt-for-cypher/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynamicspartan Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 I don't think they would do anything so critical as to aid the Black Legion or destroy another chapter. I think they would go pretty far though. The biggest thing I would imagine them doing is rallying the whole chapter and all their successors together to get Cypher. Though the inquisition will completely want to stick their noses where they shouldn't. But a couple of dead inquisitors never hurt anyone right? I do remember reading something on Lexicanum about the DA threatening to open fire on a BT ship for capturing a fallen and refusing to give him up to them. That is actually pretty far. So maybe they would destroy a whole chapter if they had to. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207135-the-hunt-for-cypher/#findComment-2470732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAG42 Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 The codex does mention a battle where 1 of the successors up and left a world at the peak of a battle, which was then utterly destryed by the Ork waagh. That was just 1 instance given that the least hint of the Fallen will get the ball rolling so to speak. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207135-the-hunt-for-cypher/#findComment-2470741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pueriexdeus Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 Capture or Kill, leads one to wonder what is the relevance of Cypher and his existence. It is already common knowledge that the last known Cypher was not a true Dark Angel (re; HH Descent of Angels). Haven't my copy at hand, but one would wonder why the Lion would use an enemy of the Chapter to fill such a slot? Though it's not cannon, I am waiting for the story to be fleshed out in upcoming HH novels. Their must be a reason. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207135-the-hunt-for-cypher/#findComment-2470763 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvendragon Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 I do remember reading something on Lexicanum about the DA threatening to open fire on a BT ship for capturing a fallen and refusing to give him up to them. That is actually pretty far. So maybe they would destroy a whole chapter if they had to. The BT ship disappeared mysteriously after the contact with the Dark Angels. In Angels of Darkness, Boreas does open fire on an allied ship. I'd say they would do anything short of turning to Chaos. If they had to kill... say... the Ultramarines to capture Cypher, they would do it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207135-the-hunt-for-cypher/#findComment-2470800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitzkreig Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 I do remember reading something on Lexicanum about the DA threatening to open fire on a BT ship for capturing a fallen and refusing to give him up to them. That is actually pretty far. So maybe they would destroy a whole chapter if they had to. The BT ship disappeared mysteriously after the contact with the Dark Angels. In Angels of Darkness, Boreas does open fire on an allied ship. I'd say they would do anything short of turning to Chaos. If they had to kill... say... the Ultramarines to capture Cypher, they would do it. Who wouldn't kill the Ultramarines to capture Cypher? (hell I'd do it just so I have an excuse to shoot Ultramarines...) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207135-the-hunt-for-cypher/#findComment-2470930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomevans Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 I'd say they would do anything short of turning to Chaos. If they had to kill... say... the Ultramarines to capture Cypher, they would do it. I think most people would willingly kill the Ultra-smurfs given half a chance. If DA successors abandon entire worlds to Ork Waaaaaghs for 1 Fallen, imagine what the DA would do to capture the most prized Fallen of them all. Anything short of invading Terra would be considered an action worth taking. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207135-the-hunt-for-cypher/#findComment-2470939 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brennus Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 The Dark Angels are only kept in check by deniability, really. They would do almost anything to capture Cypher, so long as no evidence points back to them. That being said, I doubt they would knowingly work with agents of Chaos - one fall from grace is enough for them, thank you very much. However, interrogate and exterminate a remote mining colony? Abduct people from a starship in deep space, then blast the ship to dust? Absolutely. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207135-the-hunt-for-cypher/#findComment-2470952 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 They would go pretty far. During the 13th Black Crusade, a robed astartes in unmarked armor came forward calling himself the "Voice of the Emperor" and ostensibly siding with Abaddon. The Dark Angels immediately dispatched a force to capture him, coincidentally aiding in several important battles and swinging the tide for the Imperium in those battles, though their aim was only to capture the Voice. They are eventually joined by a Black Templar cruiser, and the Black Templars capture and imprison the Voice, noting that he carries two pistols and a sheathed sword. They take him up to their cruiser at which point the DA ship threatens to fire upon them if they do not hand over the prisoner, so they do, after which point the Templar ship disappears never to be seen again. When the DA ship arrives at the Rock, the cell in which the Voice was held is found to be empty. This in of itself is interesting as it implies that there must be some conspirators within the DA that are in league with Cypher just like how Cypher leading the DA to important battles against Chaos indicates that Cypher is certainly not a Chaos marine. So yes, they would definitely wipe out another loyal chapter if it meant hiding the fact of the fallen's existence, and especially if it meant capturing Cypher himself. Especially as the Templars had no idea who the Voice even was as his armor was unmarked. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207135-the-hunt-for-cypher/#findComment-2472450 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Guard Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 When the DA ship arrives at the Rock, the cell in which the Voice was held is found to be empty. This in of itself is interesting as it implies that there must be some conspirators within the DA that are in league with Cypher just like how Cypher leading the DA to important battles against Chaos indicates that Cypher is certainly not a Chaos marine. Hi brothers! I'm new to the forum thougt i've been reading you for a long time, mainly the DA forum, and now i've registered i'd like to share my thougths about this. Finding the cell empty doesnt mean that he has someone on his side in the Rock, as he is protected by some unknown power that could have taken from there just as it took the fallen from Caliban. Also remember that he lived in the fortress when it was still on the planet surface and could know some old parts of it long forgotten by the DA themselves. And leading them into important battles doesnt mean that he isnt a chaos marine as he could be trying to take them away from more important places or just lead them into a slaughter... and if Im not wrong he helped to steal geneseed from the Chapter fortress in Piscina (Angels of Darkness) and negotiates with Abaddon himself, if such kind of things aren't the kind of things a Chaos marine does i'm starting to feel a bit confused........ About the main question, I dont think they would side with chaos to catch fallen angels as its quite stupid to do so to get your hands on someone that you hate for doing the same, as someone told before. Of course some of our actions may lead to a chaos victory somewhere, but you cant be everywhere everytime, we have more important things to do... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207135-the-hunt-for-cypher/#findComment-2472467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummus Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 ooh a thought just occurs what if cypher has cypher impersonators running around to put the da off the scent Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207135-the-hunt-for-cypher/#findComment-2472608 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAG42 Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 ooh a thought just occurswhat if cypher has cypher impersonators running around to put the da off the scent That's always a possibility. Hadn't really considered it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207135-the-hunt-for-cypher/#findComment-2472742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bringer of Redemption Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 I feel obligated to point out that part of what makes Cypher so important to the DA is his ambiguity. We don't really know weather he serves the Emperor or Chaos, and the fact that DA task forces sent out to hunt him often end up turning the tide of battle (as he always appears on the side of chaos) could be coincidental, though there are those (myself included) who tend to think that he is, in the end, serving the Emperor. --BoR Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207135-the-hunt-for-cypher/#findComment-2472806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 @Dark_Guard: He never lead the DA into a slaughter, and it is pretty much stated that had the DA not been where he lead them to, the Imperium would have lost those battles, but because they arrived looking for him, they turned the tide against Chaos. Just seems too coincidental for him to not be doing it intentionally. As to his disappearance, he did not disappear from the Rock, he disappeared from the DA battle barge that he was imprisoned on. If GW meant for him to simply be rescued by Chaos marines, that entire barge could have been lost in the warp, or attacked and boarded leading to the rescue of Cypher, but no, he just "disappears". This means that the DA are either so incompetent that the most valued and sought after fallen in their history can just walk out of their captivity, or there is some funny business going on. But yes, you can just say "well Chaos teleported him away" or whatever, but if he can just do that, how did he get captured in the first place? As to his theft of DA geneseed, yes it happened, and yes, he did meet with Abaddon, though apparently he then stabbed him in the back. Also, if Cypher's mindset is anything like Astellan's it's quite possible that he hates the current DA but venerates the Emperor and so will play off Chaos against the current DA who he feels as having betrayed the "original" DA all for what he sees as the good of the Emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207135-the-hunt-for-cypher/#findComment-2473107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Kovash Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 I think that the Dark Angels would go to almost any length to capture Cypher, including sacrificing one of their successor chapters in the process. If some inquisitors got in the way, I'm sure they'd be taken care of. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207135-the-hunt-for-cypher/#findComment-2473149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitzkreig Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 ooh a thought just occurswhat if cypher has cypher impersonators running around to put the da off the scent That's always a possibility. Hadn't really considered it. Nah, temporal warp anomolies mean they are all, in fact, the same Cypher... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207135-the-hunt-for-cypher/#findComment-2473429 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynamicspartan Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 A couple other things that interest me about Cypher. The first is that where ever he goes, other Fallen are sure to find him. I know not much is known about how or why this happens but it does. It doesn't make sense to me. This is my opinion, but this makes me think that the Fallen are actually a bit of a larger and more organized group than we expect. If Astelan could single handedly take over a world, gain it's trust, and govern it, whats stopping a larger group of Fallen from doing the same but on a much larger scale? The other thing is the sword Cypher carries. Again not much is known about it other than Cypher never uses it. I think it's the Lion sword, and I also think it's the source of some mystical power for Cypher. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207135-the-hunt-for-cypher/#findComment-2474352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
krewl Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 ooh a thought just occurswhat if cypher has cypher impersonators running around to put the da off the scent That's always a possibility. Hadn't really considered it. Nah, temporal warp anomolies mean they are all, in fact, the same Cypher... That's what alpharius want's you to think...... (In short meaning; There is always room for speculation around cypher... even dead primarchs seem to be not dead every now and then in 40K. And besides, Cypher should stay unknowable as that is his appeal...!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207135-the-hunt-for-cypher/#findComment-2474509 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HsojVvad Posted August 1, 2010 Share Posted August 1, 2010 I think I know who Cypher is. Stefeno Dimeria. :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207135-the-hunt-for-cypher/#findComment-2477458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calibanknight Posted August 2, 2010 Share Posted August 2, 2010 I do remember reading something on Lexicanum about the DA threatening to open fire on a BT ship for capturing a fallen and refusing to give him up to them. That is actually pretty far. So maybe they would destroy a whole chapter if they had to. The BT ship disappeared mysteriously after the contact with the Dark Angels. In Angels of Darkness, Boreas does open fire on an allied ship. I'd say they would do anything short of turning to Chaos. If they had to kill... say... the Ultramarines to capture Cypher, they would do it. Who wouldn't kill the Ultramarines to capture Cypher? (hell I'd do it just so I have an excuse to shoot Ultramarines...) Yep, those blue armored fellas makes it easy for us to take potshots at them. Then again, I blame Calgar on the disappearance of the squats. Oh and Calgar sorry about the Plasma Cannon..it went off "accidentally". :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207135-the-hunt-for-cypher/#findComment-2479054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celestin Posted August 2, 2010 Share Posted August 2, 2010 In the Cypher fluff in the latest DA codex it mentions the idea that the inner circle "They would willingly perform almost any act, no matter how vile, in order to capture or kill him." So this got me thinking how far would the DA go to try capture Cypher, would they co-ordinate with black legion lets say to let them take over a system in return for the location of cypher or would they willingly let another another chapter be totally destroyed if it meant they had a small chance of taking cypher. What are your thoughts? See, the thing is, you can very easily make a list of things they wouldn't do to capture/kill him. Would they virus bomb Terra? No. Would they (knowingly) give Abaddon the key to the Black Library? No. Would they compliment Slaanesh's good fashion sense and singing ability? No. Would they hand Mars over to the Necrons? No. So clearly there's a lot of lines they won't cross, proving they're actually quite principled and responsible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207135-the-hunt-for-cypher/#findComment-2479105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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