Tactical Squad layout

[ac4155]

Hi all,

 

Short simple question today, how do you kit out your tactical squads with special weapons?

At the moment I'm going to give all mine flamers but don't know if thats the best option or not.

 

also what about heavy weapons?

as i don't really bother with these in my squads.

 

AC

[Koremu]

You should always take at least a free Heavy Weapon.

 

For the cost of a single Bolt Shot at 12" range, you get a Heavy Weapon.

 

For specials, Flamer is good, but Meltagun and Plasma Gun have the ability to deal with Armoured Targets - you can't Flamer a Tank of a Dreadnought - and Heavy Infantry like Terminators.

 

My advice is to always take a Special and a Heavy Weapon that either Synergise at as many ranges as possible, or which cover each others weak spots.

[Warp Angel]

You should always take at least a free Heavy Weapon.

 

For the cost of a single Bolt Shot at 12" range, you get a Heavy Weapon.

 

For specials, Flamer is good, but Meltagun and Plasma Gun have the ability to deal with Armoured Targets - you can't Flamer a Tank of a Dreadnought - and Heavy Infantry like Terminators.

 

My advice is to always take a Special and a Heavy Weapon that either Synergise at as many ranges as possible, or which cover each others weak spots.

 

 

^^

 

What he said. Check my sig line for more details about the how and why.

[chaplain belisarius]

i give my tacticals a lascannon, plasma gun and rhino with h/k missile...works pretty well (you need to keep the enemy at arms length as a rule...tacticals arent that great at assault!)

 

hope this helped! why dont you run the heavy weapon? maybe SW would be more to your liking if you dont like heavy weapons?

[DarkGuard]

At the moment my favourite unit to run is a 10 man Tactical Squad with plasma gun, multi-melta and power fist, all mounted in a Rhino. This unit is able to deal with infantry through massed bolt shots (plus couple of plasma shots), and tanks with plasma, melta and power fist. It is also mobile with the use of a Rhino, allowing it to get in position and get on top of objectives.

 

Most importantly though, the plasma and multi-melta have the same range, same maximum and same minimum effective range. This means I can drive the Rhino into the middle of the field, and have a 24" radius of no entry for my opponent. It's an area denial unit, with the ability to seriously hurt anything the opponent sends its way. The power fist is handy for assaults as well. As a Tactical Squad it isn't the crux of my plans, but serves well as a backbone unit.

 

The advise that Koremu gives is very good. I would also urge you to read through Warp Angel's writings, they are spectacular and changed the way I play and look at the game.

 

One further note, is that in addition to the variant I like to use, a couple of other Tactical Squad are preferred. One is flamer, missile launcher and combi-flamer, giving them a lot of infantry killing power as well as range and anti-tank with the missile launcher. The other is meltagun and missile launcher, giving the squad excellent anti-tank firepower, and making them good at holding ground with the missile launcher. It goes without saying that they always need a Rhino, but power fist is down to you.

[rat of vengence]

Different tools for different jobs mate. I had 3 tactical squads in a tournament last weekend. One with Plasma cannon, flamer, combiflamer and powerfist (combat squads), one with Multimelta, melta and combimelta, and another with missile, melta and combi melta. The 5 man flamer combat squad murdered an entire unit of gaunts with two flame templates, and did nasty things to orks too. The meltas were great for keeping armour at arms reach, or even hunting them down. Not as good as fast meta of course.

 

Next time I might swap the missile/melta squad for plasma cannon/ plasma gun. :P

 

RoV

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

powerfist, lascannon(or plasma cannon), plasma gun, rhino and maybe a combi flamer

 

melta works better on sternguard or dreads

[Koremu]

For reference, I like Plasma Gun, Multi-Melta, Plasma Pistol (for more or less the reasons Darkguard states), and Meltagun, Combi-Melta (+ Optional Fist), Missile Launcher.

 

The "To Fist or not to Fist" question is something that you should consider carefully. I personally take Power Fists only on Tactical Squads which I don't intend or anticipate operating with support from another Unit with a Fist or equivalent (THammers, DCCWs etc). Thus, the Squad which will be following my Command Squad for support doesn't need a Fist - the Command Squad deals with that - while the Squad I have equipped for Dawn of War deployment has a Fist, because they will quite possibly be acting alone for a couple of turns.

 

Oh, and regarding Tactical Squads in Assault; true, they aren't that great, but they do serve a valuable purpose in Assault, of tying up enemy models and preventing the enemy from focusing attacks on your CC unit. Consider a Dreadnought assaulting a unit with a Fist in it - the Dreadnought will most likely die. Consider a Dreadnought and a Tactical Squad doing the same thing, and the Tactical Squad deliberately engages the Power Fist - now the Dreadnought is safe, and the Power Fist will be stuck trying to kill its way through a Tactical Squad before it can strike the Dreadnought.

 

Also, 18 WS4 S4 I4 attacks (plus the Sergeant) isn't bad against stuff that's not an assault specialist - Tactical Marines are generalists, which means that you beat specialists by targeting the weakness of the enemy, unlike most units which require you to play to their strengths.

[Zynk Kaladin]

I like kitting mine in a rhino with a powerfist, plasma gun, and missile launcher (though the multi-melta doesnt hurt either). I think the tactical should remain tactically flexible and this setup does the job nicely.

[Koremu]

One thing I will say is that when taking 2 or more Tactical Squads, equip them differently - nothing kills your flexibility more than identikit Tactical Squads.

[Brother Valerius]

Oh, and regarding Tactical Squads in Assault; true, they aren't that great, but they do serve a valuable purpose in Assault, of tying up enemy models and preventing the enemy from focusing attacks on your CC unit. Consider a Dreadnought assaulting a unit with a Fist in it - the Dreadnought will most likely die. Consider a Dreadnought and a Tactical Squad doing the same thing, and the Tactical Squad deliberately engages the Power Fist - now the Dreadnought is safe, and the Power Fist will be stuck trying to kill its way through a Tactical Squad before it can strike the Dreadnought.

 

I'm sure I must be misunderstanding the rules, but if the Dreadnought can hit them (as your scenario implies), surely they can hit the Dreadnought back? It's not an IC, so they don't have to be in base-to-base.

[Warprat]

I have been trying more of a combined arms approach. So almost all my Tacticals (3+ squads) get combi-flamer, flamer, plasma cannon, and melta bombs. Three plasma cannons ensure that at least one will have a shot. Other units get the equipment to open up vehicles. My Tacticals focus on infantry. If engaged by something they can't handle, I have not done my job right, and they will attempt to fall back with combat tactics. Against squishy armies like Tau, I run them in whole squads, as they will be taking damage at range. Against close combat armies I use them in combat squads to compartmentalize damage, and maximize damage output. The flamers generally go forward to cover the plasma cannons.

 

The plasma cannons do insane damage to grouped up models. Pop a transport with my shooty units, then plasma cannon the huddled passengers. Good against pod drops, deep strikes as well and decent even against Assault Terminators. The flamers are also good against grouped up models, and can be used with pistols in assault. In a pinch, the plasma cannons can target vehicles as well.

 

I have thought about switching the flamers of one squad out for plasma gun, combi-plasma. Sometimes I run with las cannon, melta gun, combi-melta in a squad. But I am not very impressed with it. Which is probably due to primarily fighting my usual opponents of Tau or Space Wolves.

[Koremu]

Oh, and regarding Tactical Squads in Assault; true, they aren't that great, but they do serve a valuable purpose in Assault, of tying up enemy models and preventing the enemy from focusing attacks on your CC unit. Consider a Dreadnought assaulting a unit with a Fist in it - the Dreadnought will most likely die. Consider a Dreadnought and a Tactical Squad doing the same thing, and the Tactical Squad deliberately engages the Power Fist - now the Dreadnought is safe, and the Power Fist will be stuck trying to kill its way through a Tactical Squad before it can strike the Dreadnought.

 

I'm sure I must be misunderstanding the rules, but if the Dreadnought can hit them (as your scenario implies), surely they can hit the Dreadnought back? It's not an IC, so they don't have to be in base-to-base.

The Dreadnought is a separate unit - any model that wants to strike it must be engaged with it (i.e. must either be in B2B contact or within 2" and not in B2B with anything else).

 

The reason ICs work as they do in CC is because "they count as a separate single model unit" (p49 BRB) and hence Dreadnoughts and ICs function identically in terms of CC attack allocation, as per the rules for Multiple Combats (p41 BRB), meaning that "models which were engaged with just one of the enemy units at the begining of the combat must attack that unit"

 

So if the enemy Power Fist is in B2B with a Tactical Marine, it can't strike the Dread, in exactly the same way as it would not be able to strike an IC.

[crna_ovca]

ML and meltagun + plasma pistol - T1

ML and flamer - T2

I love the ML since it gives you options.

[Brother Valerius]

Thanks for the clarification, Koremu.

[DarkGuard]

One thing I will say is that when taking 2 or more Tactical Squads, equip them differently - nothing kills your flexibility more than identikit Tactical Squads.

 

I'd definitely agree with this if you're just taking the two. My other Tactical Squad has a flamer, plasma cannon and Razorback and sits on objectives providing covering fire. However, I have used three Tactical Squads and had two identically equipped. Mainly for redundancy and improved anti-infantry (they had flamers then).

 

Of course, I am now of the opinion that you only need two full Tactical Squads, so yes, they should not equipped the same. In my opinion, the Tactical Squads should be equipped to be the backbone of the army, which your more specialist units such as Sternguard and Hammernators can fall back on. The Tactical Squads also let them deal with what they are good at. So my generalist Tactical Squad which is good at anti-tank lets my dual heavy flamer Sternguard combat infantry better.

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

I'd have to disagree and say if your bringing 2 tac squads equip them the same. It follows the rules of target saturation. you dont take one landspeeder or just one vindicator do you?

 

but if i'm taking 3 tac squads 1850+ then 2 of them are the same and the 3rd one is the wildcard

[Warp Angel]

I'd have to disagree and say if your bringing 2 tac squads equip them the same. It follows the rules of target saturation. you dont take one landspeeder or just one vindicator do you?

 

Actually, yes, I do.

 

1 Vindicator

1 Thunderfire

1 Land Raider Crusader w/MM

1 Land Speeder Typhoon

1 Melta/Flamer/Multimelta, Powerfist bike Squad

1 Tactical with Rhino, Melta, Multimelta, Powerfist

1 Tactical with Razorback, Flamer, Plasma Cannon, Powerfist

1 Ironclad Dreadnaught with melta and heavy flamer, drop pod with missiles

1 Captain on a bike with Hellfire and Relic Blade

1 6 man TH/SS terminator squad

 

2000 points.

 

I don't lose often.

[pattison]

I'd have to disagree and say if your bringing 2 tac squads equip them the same. It follows the rules of target saturation. you dont take one landspeeder or just one vindicator do you?

 

Actually, yes, I do.

 

1 Vindicator

1 Thunderfire

1 Land Raider Crusader w/MM

1 Land Speeder Typhoon

1 Melta/Flamer/Multimelta, Powerfist bike Squad

1 Tactical with Rhino, Melta, Multimelta, Powerfist

1 Tactical with Razorback, Flamer, Plasma Cannon, Powerfist

1 Ironclad Dreadnaught with melta and heavy flamer, drop pod with missiles

1 Captain on a bike with Hellfire and Relic Blade

1 6 man TH/SS terminator squad

 

2000 points.

 

I don't lose often.

 

Your list is rather similar to one of the guys in our local community. A little of everything. Rather annoying to play against. :D Still I can defeat him in most of the cases.

 

ON:

 

I almost always use Meltagun, Plasma Cannon, Power Fist tacticals.

I combat squad them. Plasma cannon + 4 bolters are taking defensive positions, Sarge w/ PF and the MG (along with 3 bolter marines) goes into HB Razorbacks. Can be used to almost anything. Intervention, armour opening, contesting or holding an objective etc etc. Taking a Combi Melta or a Combi Flamer on the Sarge along with all these could also be an option, but I need the points elsewhere most usually.

[Koremu]

you dont take one landspeeder or just one vindicator do you?

Sometimes, yes

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

I'd have to disagree and say if your bringing 2 tac squads equip them the same. It follows the rules of target saturation. you dont take one landspeeder or just one vindicator do you?

 

Actually, yes, I do.

 

1 Vindicator

1 Thunderfire

1 Land Raider Crusader w/MM

1 Land Speeder Typhoon

1 Melta/Flamer/Multimelta, Powerfist bike Squad

1 Tactical with Rhino, Melta, Multimelta, Powerfist

1 Tactical with Razorback, Flamer, Plasma Cannon, Powerfist

1 Ironclad Dreadnaught with melta and heavy flamer, drop pod with missiles

1 Captain on a bike with Hellfire and Relic Blade

1 6 man TH/SS terminator squad

 

2000 points.

 

I don't lose often.

 

3 AC/LC combi pred

1 godhammer landraider w/MM

4 rhinos

3 tac squads (2 w/PF, plasc/plasg, CF) 1 w/PW, PP. multi melta, meltagun

full sternguard w/PF, x4combi meltas

1 captain w/relic blade, stormshield, artif arm.

1 5 man TH/SS termie squad

 

you triple posted btw

and I bet i lose a lot less frequently than you do, sorry though. your list is just all over the place

[DarkGuard]

I almost always use Meltagun, Plasma Cannon, Power Fist tacticals.

I combat squad them. Plasma cannon + 4 bolters are taking defensive positions, Sarge w/ PF and the MG (along with 3 bolter marines) goes into HB Razorbacks. Can be used to almost anything. Intervention, armour opening, contesting or holding an objective etc etc. Taking a Combi Melta or a Combi Flamer on the Sarge along with all these could also be an option, but I need the points elsewhere most usually.

 

Actually this is a good point to bring up. Combat Squads. Some people load their Squads out so they can easily combat squad, whereas others load them out as full man units. It's easier to think of and come up with different combinations of heavy and special weapons when combat squadding, as they will be in different squads. It becomes harder when you try to synergize them into one squad. All of my outfits are for full squads, I just dislike combat squads as they are too fragile.

[Warp Angel]

I'd have to disagree and say if your bringing 2 tac squads equip them the same. It follows the rules of target saturation. you dont take one landspeeder or just one vindicator do you?

 

Actually, yes, I do.

 

1 Vindicator

1 Thunderfire

1 Land Raider Crusader w/MM

1 Land Speeder Typhoon

1 Melta/Flamer/Multimelta, Powerfist bike Squad

1 Tactical with Rhino, Melta, Multimelta, Powerfist

1 Tactical with Razorback, Flamer, Plasma Cannon, Powerfist

1 Ironclad Dreadnaught with melta and heavy flamer, drop pod with missiles

1 Captain on a bike with Hellfire and Relic Blade

1 6 man TH/SS terminator squad

 

2000 points.

 

I don't lose often.

 

3 AC/LC combi pred

1 godhammer landraider w/MM

4 rhinos

3 tac squads (2 w/PF, plasc/plasg, CF) 1 w/PW, PP. multi melta, meltagun

full sternguard w/PF, x4combi meltas

1 captain w/relic blade, stormshield, artif arm.

1 5 man TH/SS termie squad

 

you triple posted btw

and I bet i lose a lot less frequently than you do, sorry though. your list is just all over the place

 

It synergizes a lot better than you might think. I have no issues with armor, no issues with horde, and can because of the mobility can dictate when and where I concentrate my firepower. Playskill counts for a lot and it's not forgiving of mistakes. It's very much a "water" style army and requires that it's played that way or it will fall flat on its face. I haven't needed to modify it more than a model or weapon choice here and there for a year or so against any opponent/army style. I'll be more than happy to dig up the army list and old battle reports from when I had more time to point out the list longevity and my successes and play mistakes.

[Warp Angel]

I almost always use Meltagun, Plasma Cannon, Power Fist tacticals.

I combat squad them. Plasma cannon + 4 bolters are taking defensive positions, Sarge w/ PF and the MG (along with 3 bolter marines) goes into HB Razorbacks. Can be used to almost anything. Intervention, armour opening, contesting or holding an objective etc etc. Taking a Combi Melta or a Combi Flamer on the Sarge along with all these could also be an option, but I need the points elsewhere most usually.

 

Actually this is a good point to bring up. Combat Squads. Some people load their Squads out so they can easily combat squad, whereas others load them out as full man units. It's easier to think of and come up with different combinations of heavy and special weapons when combat squadding, as they will be in different squads. It becomes harder when you try to synergize them into one squad. All of my outfits are for full squads, I just dislike combat squads as they are too fragile.

 

Check my sig line for my thoughts on RISK and squad size. I share your thoughts on combat squadding normally being a bad idea.

[DarkGuard]

I almost always use Meltagun, Plasma Cannon, Power Fist tacticals.

I combat squad them. Plasma cannon + 4 bolters are taking defensive positions, Sarge w/ PF and the MG (along with 3 bolter marines) goes into HB Razorbacks. Can be used to almost anything. Intervention, armour opening, contesting or holding an objective etc etc. Taking a Combi Melta or a Combi Flamer on the Sarge along with all these could also be an option, but I need the points elsewhere most usually.

 

Actually this is a good point to bring up. Combat Squads. Some people load their Squads out so they can easily combat squad, whereas others load them out as full man units. It's easier to think of and come up with different combinations of heavy and special weapons when combat squadding, as they will be in different squads. It becomes harder when you try to synergize them into one squad. All of my outfits are for full squads, I just dislike combat squads as they are too fragile.

 

Check my sig line for my thoughts on RISK and squad size. I share your thoughts on combat squadding normally being a bad idea.

 

Most of my thoughts on combat squadding came from personal experience and your own thoughts on it Warp Angel :D