Zso Sahaal

[Bulveye]

Zso Sahaal

Talonmaster of the Night Lords................285 Points

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv

7 5 4 4 4 5 4 10 3+

Special Rules

Fearless, Combat Tactics, Independent Character, Eternal Warrior.

 

Lord Of The Night: Sahaal (and any squad he is with) benefit from the Infiltrate special rule. In addition, in any Night Fight scenario, Sahaal can choose to infiltrate in any piece of unoccupied terrain anywhere on the board, regardless of its distance from enemy units.

 

Nostraman Born: Because of their Nostraman heritage, Night lords have near perfect night vision, even without the use of their helmets. Sahaal and his squad do not need to roll to see during Night Fight.

 

First Of The Raptors: Sahaal’s company was famous for the use of Assault Marines in their battles, known as Raptors. All assault marines in an army that includes Sahaal gain the Terrifying Scream special rule (see below). Additionally assault marines in an army including Sahaal become troops, and Vanguard Veterans can be used as Elites as well as Fast Attack.

 

Chapter Tactics: If you include Zso Sahaal then all units in your army exchange the Combat Tactics special rule for the Acute Senses special rule. If more than one character in your army has the Chapter Tactics special rule, you much choose which version will apply.

 

Wargear

Power Armour, Frag and Krak Grenades, Jump Pack, Master Crafted Bolter.

 

The Corona Nox: This crown has an ability to calm the soul of the wearer, replacing rage with focus. However, sometimes such rage cannot be contained. At the start of each allied turn roll a D6, on the roll of a 2-5 Sahaal acts as normal, on the roll of a 1 the Corona cannot hold back his fury, for that turn Sahaal has the Furious Charge and Rage special rules. In addition Sahaal has a 4+ Invulnerable save.

 

Unguis Raptus ‘The Raptor’s Claws’: Sahaal’s greatest and most valuable equipment are these deadly claws. They count as a pair of Lightening Claws that grant +1S to the user. In addition Sahaal can use the Unguir Raptus as well as his bolter.

 

Terrifying Scream: Raptors use loud screams to add to the terror of their enemies through the use of their vox units. If an enemy unit comes within 12” of a unit with Terrifying Scream it must pass a Leadership test or reduce their Ld and I by 1 for the remainder of the turn.

 

This is my idea for a pre/during heresy version of Sahaal, hence why It is used with the marines book as opposed to Chaos. I also thought it fitted more with stuff available. If there is anything here that doesnt seem right, or if there is a points/stats issue please say so I can amend anything :P

 

P.S. please remove one of the 2 of these...I need to remember to not double click.

[Legatus]

I think that may be a bit excessive. The novel has not exactly given me the reason to believe that Sahaal would be that much more impressive stat wise than any other Captain or Chapter Master. And how is 'Eternal Warrior' justified?

 

With special rules for DIY characters it is usually more elegant to base them on existing universal special rules, or perhaps teh special rules of a similar Character. And one should not go over board with the amount of special rules either. Since he (and the amry led by him) get 'acute Seinses' , which was how the Night Lord's Night Vision had been represented in past rule incarnations, you can cut the 'Nostramo Born' rule.

 

The 'Terryfying Scream' should not be a passive ability (i.e. effective when the enemy moves within range). And it should not have that range either. Furthermore, how the rule is currently written it seems that a unit may have to test multiple times if it moves within range of multiple Night Lords assault squads. And the way that army will be designed it will most likely have several of them. Better have it work on an enemy unit that gets assaulted by one or more units of Assault marines.

 

Cut the 'Corona Nox' rule, except perhaps for providing him with the 'Iron Halo' save. Sahaal does not seem to be a crazed berserker. (Also, what was supposed to happen on a roll of 6?)

[Rain]

He's actually pretty bad for that points cost, I would probably allow him just because he's such a waste of points compared to say, Shrike. Also what is the point of the Nostramo Born rule when he will probably be accompanied by assault marines that don't generally shoot farther than 12 inches anyway?

 

That said, even though he isn't great as he is, Eternal Warrior simply makes no sense as Legatus said, I mean if Typhus and Khârn don't have it, Sahaal surely shouldn't as I don't see him possibly being tougher than either of those. Also, heresy or not, I still think that the Chaos codex makes more sense for NL due to the weapon options better matching a force of that age.

[Chengar Qordath]

Also, I would have to say that his chapter tactics are a very weak choice; Acute Senses is significantly inferior to simple Combat Tactics, let alone the options most of the other special characters get. The Space Wolves got it for free alongside their actual chapter tactic: Counter-Attack. If you're going with Chapter Tactics, I would give the Night Lords something else on top of Acute Senses, like one of the more useful USRs that fight NL fluff (FC, H&R or Fearless could all work).

 

I would switch terrifying scream to something more focused, like inflicting an extra wound for combat resolution in assaults.

 

Corona Nox should just be a straight-up 4++; complicated rules for it just cause more confusion.

 

As Rain said, drop his point cost; any character that costs more than the likes of Mephiston and Calgar needs adjusting.

[Bulwyf]

Bulveye? Hey!

[empchildrenbob]

how can he cost more than abaddon? abaddon is the best character in the game!- literaly

[the jeske]

<_< yeah right .

he costs this much because he makes RAS troops.

too many rules on the chara by the way . nox giving FnP not inv[its not a field , but zso did many things to not lose it including losing an arm ] . the scream should be either a pasive aura with ranged checked [like those this at 0-12 those that at 13-24 etc] or to make it more simple give all "raptor"[aka ras] units the old demonice viasge rule.

 

as the chapter tactics. acute sense and move through cover as they did have once . Yes it is weaker then lets say twin linked flamers and meltas , but your not taking zso for chapter tactics you take him to play a RAS hvy army.

 

shouldnt cost more then 200-230 points.

 

ah no eternal warrior as others said .

[Vissah]

You make him more expensive than Abaddon what are you thinking?

[A D-B]

More points than Abaddon and Eternal Warrior? For a Night Lord captain?

 

Nuoh my God.

[Bulveye]

I agree he may be pricey, but I was thinking as he's essentially the Night Lords 'Chapter Master' he should be fairly hard. In my view it makes sense for a chapter master to be an eternal warrior as theyre all meant to be legendary warriors (if anybody says Dante now I will say he SHOULD have eternal and 4 wounds, as with all chapter masters should). As I see it he is on the same level as abaddon as he was second only to the Night Haunter.

 

I was thinking of giving acute senses and scout for his chapter tactics but I wasnt sure about scout.

 

As for the corona i meant to type on the roll of 2-6, but hit the wrong key. And I thought it would fit more than an Iron halo would, hence the invulnerable save.

 

I agree Nostraman born isnt much use as I'm not going to be far away when I can shoot. So I will cut that out.

 

Terrifying scream I can clarify. I would say a squad may only need to test once for each unit with the rule. Originally It was 'any Ld test caused by a unit with the rule must be taken at -1 Ld'

[the jeske]

but I wasnt sure about scout.

so more or less 30" charge range mostly not affected by terrain . yeah in that case he would have been worth 280 points.

[A D-B]

I agree he may be pricey, but I was thinking as he's essentially the Night Lords 'Chapter Master' he should be fairly hard.

 

As a heads-up, the Night Lords had a different First Captain pre-Heresy and during the Heresy itself.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I'd just like to point out that saying that any special character should or shouldn't have something based off of special characters in the chaos codex isn't really sound reasoning. The chaos special characters are fairly badly balanced. The stats in the chaos codex do not really represent those characters well (Abbadon and typhus both weaker than calgar and lysander? come on.) All the chaos special characters should have rules like eternal warrior (loyalist guys only a few hundred years old with a fraction of their experience do), so we shouldn't deny that rule to custom characters just because the chaos ones don't have it. In other words, the chaos codex is bad. Let's not force all chaos oriented special characters to suck just because the codex sucks.

[Bulveye]

In that case this is at the point when Sahaal was appointed true heir to the corona nox. And so assumed to be the leader of the legion, if he hadnt been thrown into the future.

[A D-B]

All the chaos special characters should have rules like eternal warrior (loyalist guys only a few hundred years old with a fraction of their experience do), so we shouldn't deny that rule to custom characters just because the chaos ones don't have it.

 

Sahaal doesn't have the hundreds/thousands of years experience most Chaos characters do, though.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

All the chaos special characters should have rules like eternal warrior (loyalist guys only a few hundred years old with a fraction of their experience do), so we shouldn't deny that rule to custom characters just because the chaos ones don't have it.

 

Sahaal doesn't have the hundreds/thousands of years experience most Chaos characters do, though.

 

True enough in this case. I don't disagree with him not having it for this reason, just with him not having it because other chaos characters don't.

[Dan The Deamon]

I don't think our new book is going to be all that special. GW pumped up marines with the past couple of dexes and i'm sure they won't make chaos more powerful than the good guys. I fear we will be whipping boys until the end of time.

 

I guess at least we can do it in style though. Legion rules and special characters would be great.

 

This depressing can of worms brought to you by Dan.

 

Enjoy

[Clewz]

surely pre heresy he wouldn't have the corona nox. That would still be with Night Haunter

[Bulveye]

I thought the corona fitted more than an iron halo would. So I think I was trying to make him at a point where he has the corona, which was at a point where the legion was out of his reach entirely

[Rain]

Hmm this thread actually got me thinking about ol' Fainty. Zso, by the powers invested in me by the Chaos gods, here's my crack at him

 

Zso Sahaal-180 points

 

WS-5 BS-5 S-4 T-4 W-3 I-5 A-4 LD-10 Sv-3+/4+

 

Wargear: Jump pack, Cornona Nox, Raptor's Talons

 

Special Rules:

 

Independent Character

 

Carona Nox-An ancient symbol of authority within the Night Lords legion, this item both protects its wearer and identifies him as the heir of Curze himself. Sahaal gains a 4+ invulnerable save. Additionally this item instills a preternatural horror in any facing Sahaal and so any enemy units losing combat with him are at an additional -1 penalty for any leadership checks or for purposes of "No Retreat!".

 

Hate the Weak-Sahaal and many like him see the worship of Chaos as weakness and revile it just as they revile the followers of the Dead Emperor. Any army including Sahaal may not include daemon princes, possessed, summoned daemons or any marked units including those marked from icons (even Icon of Chaos Glory may not be taken!)

Lords of the Night-The followers of Sahaal are true Children of the Haunter and so all non-vehicle units benefit from acute senses and add +1 to any cover save they would normally receive though they still get no cover save if in open ground. Additionally, this bonus does not stack with that from going to ground.

 

Raptor's Talons- Finely crafted and precise weapons that predate the Heresy, these ancient claws allow Sahaal to reroll any missed rolls to hit as well as to wound

[quiethood]

Not to hurt anyone's feelings, but Zso Shaal should be a one armed gimp with hit and run,and accompanied by a little psy-witch that grants "warped perspective" or "craven self-pity". A nice package for about 100pts. In the scheme of things he's pretty banged up at the end of the novel, and as awesome as he was against underhive human trash, he was well wooped by his own brothers. i don't think he has the resources to "replace" his body parts, so a one armed jump pack wielding Night Lord would not have eternal warrior. I'm fairly sure that Uza could beat Shaal with a series of back hands, not even wicked back hands, and then take his armour and the corona nox would just be a pretty skull for the skull throne.

The thing about the characters in the chaos dex is that they've been kickin' around the galaxy for a while making a name for themselves, Bad-mother-truckers. I don't think Shaal has earned a name for himself in the 40k game world. He's cool, but from a chaos dex standpoint I think that the Exhalted, or Talos, or Krieg would make a better table top character then Shaal. Lord of the Night was a great novel, but it wasn't representative of the Night Lords. Besides what would Shaal say to his brothers,"Hey, I got this crown, and I know I left 1st company behind... But I really care for you guys. Even though you tried to kill me."

But I do think that the Night Lords need a special character, so I respect what you're doing.

[WolfGuardVortek]

Considering Zso managered to even survive with just losing a limb vs Krieg (who is a daemon prince after all) speaks fairly highly of his abilities.

[Noctus Cornix]

Also, apologies, but Sahaal was Terran born. Its stated in Lord of the Night.

[The Nephilim]

I agree he may be pricey, but I was thinking as he's essentially the Night Lords 'Chapter Master' he should be fairly hard.

Wait...

 

As a heads-up, the Night Lords had a different First Captain pre-Heresy and during the Heresy itself.

What he said.

 

Not to hurt anyone's feelings, but Zso Shaal should be a one armed gimp with hit and run,and accompanied by a little psy-witch that grants "warped perspective" or "craven self-pity".

Seriously... Quiethood, that's the best response yet.

 

Also, apologies, but Sahaal was Terran born. Its stated in Lord of the Night.

Exactly.

 

As to my point... Zso was a whiny, selfish, cowardly, lying, highly confused, self-righteous moron. And that's without using profanity. I'm proud of myself. Really. It's a first. Why not make your own Night Lord hero or better yet, use Talos. I get the impression that almost anyone in 10th Company's First Claw could bend Zso over, spank his whiny ass, and take the Corona back from his cowardly grasp.

 

 

**Edited to clean-up spacing problems**

[Chengar Qordath]

Hmm this thread actually got me thinking about ol' Fainty. Zso, by the powers invested in me by the Chaos gods, here's my crack at him

Decent in terms of game balance, though WS 5 is a touch odd since WS 6 is the norm for Marine commanders (Chaos or otherwise). Four base attacks is also unusual, but not completely impossible for a Marine commander if there's justification for it.

 

Also, Corona Nox and Lords of the Night are both worded very awkwardly. The second half of the Corona Nox's rule should just be "counts as scoring an additional wound in close combat for the purposes of calculating the assault result" since that's the wording used in other codices. Likewise, the second half of the Lords of the Night Rule is just a more awkwardly worded version of the Stealth universal special rule; just use the USR instead.