No LR/Dread/Rhino GK's

[Brother_Fatiswon]

hey, i've been wondering if and tips on how to build a pure(maybe IST for troops) GK army w/o LR's or GK dreads...

or

would it's just be a waste of super glue and primer?

[greatcrusade08]

The problem would be no heavy weapons for popping AV12+, you would be reliant on IST with meltaguns in rhinos and these can be countered quite easily.

If you play alot of horde armies it would be worth a shot though

[Chengar Qordath]

The problem would be no heavy weapons for popping AV12+, you would be reliant on IST with meltaguns in rhinos and these can be countered quite easily.

If you play alot of horde armies it would be worth a shot though

Using the IA2 update can be a good idea since it provides some more options for long-range firepower, like taking Valkyries as dedicated transports for your ISTs. It's hard to argue with a fast scout skimmer transport that can mount a Lascannon and anti-tank missiles.

[Gentlemanloser]

The problem would be no heavy weapons for popping AV12+, you would be reliant on IST with meltaguns in rhinos and these can be countered quite easily.

If you play alot of horde armies it would be worth a shot though

 

You could buy Melta Bombs or your Justicars. And Hammerhand could Glance AV14...

 

But, this would be a waste of Glue and Primer. You will get obliterated by;

 

1: AP3 weapons.

2: Nearly everybody (Not including Tau or Necrons) in CC.

[number6]

I've played GKs since the dawn of 4th edition, and while your mileage may vary, IMHO the army really isn't viable at all in 5th edition. Almost any kind of halfway decently built and commanded army is faster than us, has more firepower than us, has stronger assault units than us (!), and can afford to lose large chunks of the army and still keep on kicking.

 

None of those things are true for GKs.

 

In fact, most of those things were actually accurate in previous editions of the game, too.

 

What has changed is the game itself, and nearly all of the changes robbed the army of its ability to compete.

 

True Line of Sight robbed us of our ability to use terrain tactically to preserve our forces and concentrate our efforts.

 

The inability to consolidate into ensuing combats -- combined with the harsh penalties for losing combats (both for us when we lose and for our enemies when we beat them) -- prevents us from saving ourselves from getting wiped out by coordinating our efforts such that we were likely to be stuck in combat on an enemy turn only to break them on ours and move directly into another combat. Now what happens is we either get assaulted, LOSE :tu:, and take several more wounds because we're fearless. Or we win, break the enemy, and sit there in the wide open just to get shot off the table and/or assaulted right back.

 

Vehicles are also more survivable than in any previous edition of the game, and GKs have never been good at popping armour. Combine stronger vehicles with the amazing points cost reductions that all the 5e codexes have given vehicles and it's a recipe for disaster.

 

Honestly, even taking land raiders and/or dreadnoughts isn't enough. To forgo them entirely -- along with ISTs and their meltas -- is certain suicide.

 

Finally, outside of game concerns, we have the prospect of a brand new codex on the near horizon. (Say, within the next 8-12 months.) Most DH product has been pulled from the shelves, and even the print codex has been replaced with a smaller, weaker, more limited PDF for download. So even if you wanted to play the army, it is difficult to do so unless you already have the models on hand.

 

IMHO, if you don't already own a DH army, I would suggest you wait to play GKs until the new codex shows up.

[Brother_Fatiswon]

thank you, one and all..

 

@ #6, i hear ya, about the pending release, i have the 03 paper codex even tho I've never fielded a single GK squad, I still support/vote my dollars, by buying new releases that are in line with what I would like to see more of.

 

I've been looking to a "count as" set up for a semi pure GK army that, to be honest, would be under $75.00 for like 60+ models but only if i stay away from Heavy support/Transports..

 

something like

GK hero ++

DH I Lord + 3 henchmen

x9 GKT (hq's escort)

x10 GKT

x20 IST in 2 or 4 squads

x30 PAGK (all in FA for deep striking)

 

i was thinking about a full on "Fire style" assault army

[Eddie Orlock]

+i was thinking about a full on "Fire style" assault army

The Earth and Air of the pure GK list is generally considered insufficient to support a policy of unmitigated aggression, a deficiency that you'd be hard pressed to overcome with your Void, even if you are superior to your opponent.

 

I would expect your list to find itself pressed to support advanced placements of deep striking elements and vulnerable to defeat in detail, unable to pressure it's opponents when the deep striking elements appear. Twenty Marines aren't exactly hard to slay if there are no other targets. Once you've landed, you're no more mobile, and you have no bonus to help massage the arrival times.

 

Then again, I've never been a fan of deep strike, even my marines tended to eschew it. I've only ever really found it playable back when I could take the 'drop troops' doctrine and gamble the lives of cheap guardsmen. A platoon dropping in at once could swamp an area with bodies and other aspects were being pressured at range with armour and entrenched troops.

 

I plan to toy with deep strike again in the near future when I paint up the warp spiders and support them with my fire prism's in a double 'tarch list. The time spent with the Xeno has made me a better Imperial Commander.

[Brother_Fatiswon]

+i was thinking about a full on "Fire style" assault army

Twenty Marines aren't exactly hard to slay if there are no other targets.

 

sure, twenty, but i was thinking about dropping like 20 TDA GK's and 30 PAGK

 

and i'm having trouble seeing how A pure GK force would be an "Earth/air" combo

 

but i can be far sighted for sure.

[greatcrusade08]

GKs work best with water style, you should check out silent requiems stickied threads in the ordos section

[Gentlemanloser]

x30 PAGK (all in FA for deep striking)

 

Don't do this.

 

We have no bonus to reserve rolls, or 'First Turn' Deep Strike Assaults. No way of getting Scout/Fast moving Teleport Homers (unless you can use the IA update and buy Drop Pods with Locator Beacons for GK Dreadnoughts) so have to settle for the worst possible Deep Striking in the game.

 

All for the Priveledge of losing 'Scoring' status on our super expensive Troops.

 

Plus, being outnumbered and outgunned means you *really* can't afford to tie up 750 odd points worth off table, where they can't help you.

[greatcrusade08]

i agree, im not that experienced with them (only played one game), but having all those strom bolters on the ground firing from turn one (in most cases) makes a huge difference

[number6]

Sadly, your proposed army just won't work. :D Even Necrons would be able to beat it. It really isn't that difficult to kill 30 MEQs and 10-ish TEQs. Especially when those MEQs and TEQs are just walking it up slowly. Or dropping in one/two unit(s) at a time for easy pickings.

 

I'm not saying you can't have fun just playing 40K even when you lose. But the army you propose, in all honesty, simply cannot compete with even subpar armies that are run with minimal competence. I know I cannot have fun unless there is at least a chance that the game I'm playing can actually be contested. Your GK army cannot contest any other army in the game. It's all but an auto-lose.

 

The closest to competitive that the DH army can get can be found in this topic. And you'll note that the army lists there don't have a lot of GKs in them. :)

[ArmouredWing]

ok, how's this for a something to chew over?

 

The proposed loadout wouldn't work for a standard game, but what about something outside of the standard 9 possible missions (3 game types, 3 deployment types)? The reason I say this is that something like this would be an interesting list for CoD and would also benefit from the dense terrain of a CoD table.

 

I'd have to say that there's a lot of focus on why things won't work but not a lot on the potential for when it would work and given the right circumstances.

 

For my money, if this was used in a CoD scenario and combined with the right strategums (SP!?!) it would be a pretty good list. Open ground not so much, but in a city it's got the potential to really draw some blood.

[Brother_Fatiswon]

oh, I am not getting my feelings hurt.. if i was, I'd be in the wrong hobby for sure. The Costs of full armies is a huge factor for many, but myself in particular.

I can budget in my invaders, pretty well, seeing as Aobr models/and DA upgrades are fairly cost effective, but every now and again, thoughts of running a 2nd army whisper in my brain. I read about i guess you would call me a pickup or car trunk army like 1750 points of all Aobr tactical/Aobr Missile Spam devastator squads/and kit bashed SC, that one would keep in a like a fishing tackle box with foam inserts.

Having the 03 paper DH dex, i think that i could run the list in a allied format to the 5th edit of the SM codex

and be much more competive(sp) by running Tiggie and a couple of Drop pods full of Tactical marines, allied by 20 GKT (1 Hq/1 elite) and 10 PAGK in FA.

All held back by Tiggie's re-rolling of reverse dice to keep everyone until they could all drop/strike at the same time. Maybe run couple of drop pod Devastator squads with light heavy weapons, like MM x4 or x2 Plasma cannons for 1st turn drop pod assault rules...