Go first or second?

[Maxamato]

Hi all!

 

I have a general question:

Is it better to have the first turn or to go as second?

 

I think that also depends on the used army list. I guess to go first with an alpha strike or shooty army will be better as with an i.e. more mobile army.

 

But I’m also interested to know what do you choose with an All-comers list in a tournament environment and why?

 

For me, I try to go always as second because I think I can better react against the opponent deployment and to have the last players turn is for me also nice too. The only drawback is that I have to survive the first shooting phase (which one could be an issue against shooty lists).

 

 

I’m asking me all time what will be better and I hope you will share your experience.

Thanks.

 

Regards

Maxamato

[mowglie]

Given the choice, making no assumptions about your army list:-

 

If it's an objective mission, you should prefer to go 2nd.

 

If it's a KP mission you should prefer to go 1st.

 

Lots of factors affect that though.

[pingo]

I suppose:

 

Assaulty/shooty army: go first

 

Deep strikey/reservey army: go second

 

But, some people may think the opposite.

 

Also don't forget that going 2nd means you get the last turn. I suppose in a lot of ways, having the last move is better than having the first.

[greatcrusade08]

It all deoends on your list and playstyle.. alot of air/fire armies would prefer first turn, eart/water armies second.

 

of curse as stated above the mission typye also plays a part as does the nature of your army.. daemons for example would rpefer 2nd turn as it means they will get the final turn for claiming obs and it also means podding armies have to commit some of thier forces first

[Koremu]

A lot of it depends on if your opponent is deploying, or if he's reserving everything.

 

Also, DoW screws with everyones expectations. I like going first in DoW to abuse my Searchlights and Krak-spam

[DarkGuard]

A lot of it depends on if your opponent is deploying, or if he's reserving everything.

 

Also, DoW screws with everyones expectations. I like going first in DoW to abuse my Searchlights and Krak-spam

 

Really? I prefer going second in DoW missions, allowing me to react to where most of my opponent's forces turn up, as well as abusing my own searchlights with a potential shorter range between the armies, and no drawbacks for the next turn (as it isn't night fighting then).

 

In the end, it depends on the mission, the armies, and the terrain. Remember to take yours and your opponent's armies into account before choosing whether you want to pick your board edge. If you need to set up handy shooty units then going first may be better to make sure you get the better deployment zone and therefore vantage points. If you don't mind about terrain you may still want to pick your board edge to disadvantage your opponent.

[Ryjak]

A lot of it depends on if your opponent is deploying, or if he's reserving everything.

 

Also, DoW screws with everyones expectations. I like going first in DoW to abuse my Searchlights and Krak-spam

You often talk about how you build your armylists to handle Dawn of War deployment, but I've never seen you articulate your philosophy for it. At the very least, I'd be interested to hear what kind of unit(s) you take in your Marine Army for DoW, how and where you deploy them, and what you try to do with them during the game.

 

At least I know you prefer to go first.

[Koremu]

A lot of it depends on if your opponent is deploying, or if he's reserving everything.

 

Also, DoW screws with everyones expectations. I like going first in DoW to abuse my Searchlights and Krak-spam

You often talk about how you build your armylists to handle Dawn of War deployment, but I've never seen you articulate your philosophy for it. At the very least, I'd be interested to hear what kind of unit(s) you take in your Marine Army for DoW, how and where you deploy them, and what you try to do with them during the game.

 

At least I know you prefer to go first.

I should probably caveat that with "unless I suspect you're going to hold everything off-board".

 

Mostly I have a Tactical Squad which is equipped with the role of point in DoW in mind. Sometimes this has been a 10 man Tactical Squad in a Rhino. Other times a 5 man unit in an Assault Cannon Razorback. It's really just a quick mental checkpoint when I'm writing the army list; "Do I have a plan for DoW?"

 

If I have Sicarius in the list and DoW turns up it's always very tempting to deploy second, let the enemy decide their deployment and then use my deployment to react to it. The aforementioned Razorback unit can have Scout and either deploy and Scout move, or can Outflank. Helped by Sicarius having nearly twice the chance to Seize the Initiative.

 

"Wars are won or lost when the battle-lines are drawn."

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

who knows im still not sure which is better.

 

All i know is that usually I play a earth style shooty list, with alpha strike elements and I always choose to go first. however I have had a lot of luck in situations were my opponent has chosen to go first so go figure!

[Maxamato]

Hi all!

 

Thanks for the feedback!

 

Normally I play a mech based DA list. Below I will show you an example list which I want do use for the next tourney:

[1] Belial

[5] Command squad in Rhino with Apoth. And 2x PG

[2] Ven. Dread with PC/DCCW and HF

[5] DW squad with Apoth., AC, 1xCF, 1xLC, 1xPW, rest with SB and PF

[5] Tact. Squad in Laserback with PG, PW and MB

[5] Tact. Squad in HBback with MG, PW

[5] Tact. Squad in Laserback with PG and MB

[1] Combi pred with AC and 2 LC’s

[1] Combi Pred with TLLC and 2 HB

 

For me it looks like as a mobile list with decent firepower and I have a good possibility to react against the opponent deployment /actions he take.

 

Concerning the Missions:

In objective games it is very clear for me to go as second.

 

But in Annihilation I’m not sure all the time. I think against i.e. Tau I will go first because than I can move fast forward and protect with cover and smoke launcher my vehicles. If I have to play an assault list I think I will go second because I think it will better hat he brings his units to my lines and I can bring more firepower to a specific point on the board.

How to you handle assault based list?

 

About deployment:

In DoW I also prefer to second because it is easier for me to react against the opponent actions. The only exception here is against Tau or shooty based IG because here I use the night fight rules to move forward.

In spearhead for example I prefer to go as second.

 

One other point is that if you go as second is one of that you can expect because the most opponents want to go as first.

 

 

Regards

Maxamato

[Warp Angel]

I think it's more important to have a strategy for going first or second and a personal preference for whatever army you are playing.

 

You are only going to get the choice half of the time, which means that you need to be prepared for both. My choice of first or second depends on the setup and my opponent's army more than it does my own. If I'm going first, I'll often make use of reserves to protect my more potent (but vulnerable) units and to allow me to still concentrate my army where I want, providing some tactical surprise.

 

Reserves are a calculated risk though, but should be part of your overall strategy.

[Zid]

Depends on the army I face. Heres my breakdown:

 

Nids, Orks (w/o lootas), Non-shooty marines/chaos, deamons - I'd rather go second. This allows them to move up and give me a better chance to get the charge

 

Everything else - go first. IG, Eldar, Tau, etc. are REALLY hard to engage across the field. I need to get close quick to give them a good run

[Captain Idaho]

It's important to remember, no matter how powerful your ability to alpha strike the enemy, shoot them from afar or whatever, sometimes you need to go 2nd anyway.

 

Seems strange, but consider that an opponent who sees you are about to out shoot him 1st turn or alpha strike him, can choose to put his vulnerable units in reserve and neutralise your advantage before you even start the game.

 

Works in reverse. If your opponent wants to alpha strike you/shoot you down or has Drop pods etc and has the 1st turn, then putting your stuff in reserve can save you somewhat.

 

Likewise it is possible to build your list for this sort of horse play. Have an army that is in 2 halves, the 1st in Drop Pods for 1st turn dropping and the 2nd designed for outflanking and reserve play, such as Deep striking Terminators, Sicarius' ability to give a Tactical squad the ability to outflank and comes on to support the drop pod assault. Going 1st grants you the ability to get your reserves on a turn before the opponents, technically.