The Greater Betrayal

[Grimtooth]

So as I have been reading through the HH books, of course we have the betrayal of the Emperor. However, does anyone feel even more pity for the betrayed members of the traitorous Legions?

 

Son betraying father. Yes it is hard, but only really felt by the primarchs themselves. However, the SM of the various legions were for the most part fairly insulated from the Emperor, and in some cases by their own primarchs. So the betrayal of their own brothers, brothers in blood and violence, really touched me in the novels.

 

Garro, Tarvitz, Torggadon, Qruze, etc, etc. While they felt the loss of their primarchs to Horus, the real pain really did seem to come from the betrayal of their brothers in arms and was reflected in the way they then fought back against said former brothers.

[Rider-75]

yup. a truly bitter pill for those legionnaires.

 

from what i recall, it was mainly the terran members of the legions that were cast off. i think probably as they would have been lead by the Emperor in the past and were therefore a potential threat to horus' plans as he couldn't have been 100% certain where their loyalties would fall.

[Badaboom]

Yes, the outcasts were mostly Terrans, who probably had a better understanding of the meaning of the Crusade as a whole; we see how Calibanites feel when they are integrated in the Imperium, and it´s not a funny feeling. We can guess that, for many Primarchs and latter Astartes, the Imperium, the Emperor and the Crusade and not as real, merely concepts learnt and assimilated, but not so utterly real as they were for those who fought on Terra and besides the Emperor Himself. It´s not strange then that they chose their Primarchs in the end.

 

It was really sad how the feeling of brotherhood got broken during the novels, and replaced by suspicion and then hate. The Astartes were the paragons of how Humanity united could beat any foe, the light of hope for a new age...

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Don't forget Uthizaar! killed by his own Primarch so said Primarch could destroy his own legion out self pity, the Thousand Sons are the most tragic of Legions, Uthizaar the most tragic of Thousand Sons, Mangus, well if anyone wants to, the Thousand Sons would gladly swap him for a better one, maybe get the Emperor to give us a refund?

[Sons of Horus]

Isstvan III was the biggest tragedy (emotionally) IMO.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Isstvan III was the biggest tragedy (emotionally) IMO.

 

Absolutely, it was -- the first real battle of the Heresy, where brother turns blade and bolter upon brother. I was rooting for Loken & Torgaddon and Saul Tarvitz all the way through to the end. Thank the Throne that at least Garro got away with the Saint. . .

[Valtonis]

yep, reading about the betrayed SMs were very emotional.

they are some of the best stories from the HH series

[malika666]

Note that the Word Bearers killed off their Terran marines as a preemptive purge...

[Grimtooth]

I think it is my experience in the infantry that made the brotherly betrayal a little more heartfelt.

 

We had our squad leaders and our platoon sergeants that were out with us in the field, but we didn't see our platoon commander a whole lot or our company commander for other then special formations or special talks. It was your fireteam that was always there for you with your squad leader checking on you time to time and then your platoon sergeant always knowing what was going with you, even if you hadn´t talked to him.

[Brother Emund]

I get the feeling that the traitor legions had been well and truly infiltrated by pro-Horus (;) ) supporters before it all came out in the open. I also think it had been going on for a long time. After reading the Abyss (again), it was obvious that the Word Bearers had probably been turned en masse because of their ridiculous adherence to "The Word".. can anyone tell me what the f#k is 'The Word' all about anyway? ;) ;)

I digress, your basic grunt/SM will do what he is ordered, and if his senior officers say "shoot the Emperor-luvin' muthers", they will cock bolters, turn and blow their fellow brothers away. They cannot afford to hesitate, as the loyalists would soon have their heads .

I often wonder why the Boss hated The Thousand Sons so much, apart from their dabbling in magik; they would have been a formidable loyalist Legion, now lost forever

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

Isstvan III was the biggest tragedy (emotionally) IMO.

 

Absolutely, it was -- the first real battle of the Heresy, where brother turns blade and bolter upon brother. I was rooting for Loken & Torgaddon and Saul Tarvitz all the way through to the end. Thank the Throne that at least Garro got away with the Saint. . .

 

Don't give up hope.......

I get the feeling that the traitor legions had been well and truly infiltrated by pro-Horus (:pirate: ) supporters before it all came out in the open. I also think it had been going on for a long time. After reading the Abyss (again), it was obvious that the Word Bearers had probably been turned en masse because of their ridiculous adherence to "The Word".. can anyone tell me what the f#k is 'The Word' all about anyway? ^_^ :P

I digress, your basic grunt/SM will do what he is ordered, and if his senior officers say "shoot the Emperor-luvin' muthers", they will cock bolters, turn and blow their fellow brothers away. They cannot afford to hesitate, as the loyalists would soon have their heads .

I often wonder why the Boss hated The Thousand Sons so much, apart from their dabbling in magik; they would have been a formidable loyalist Legion, now lost forever

 

The Word is what Lorgar's overall message is at the time i think. It seems that it changed after he got his talking too by the Emperor. And as for Mangus, His major boo boo was to break the seals on the web way portals under the palace on Terra. It might have been bad enough if he had knowingly broken the edicts laid down at Nikaea but when he almost let loose a force of evil that would destroy Terra he had gone to far.

[Dark Scipio]

That Marines had a bitter fade. So bitter, its almost unthinkable how their traitours brothers could justify it to themselve.

[Sethus]

Don't forget Uthizaar! killed by his own Primarch so said Primarch could destroy his own legion out self pity, the Thousand Sons are the most tragic of Legions, Uthizaar the most tragic of Thousand Sons, Mangus, well if anyone wants to, the Thousand Sons would gladly swap him for a better one, maybe get the Emperor to give us a refund?

 

You're right about the Thousand Sons being one of the most tragic legions. They're one of my favorite, but Magnus is one of the worst primarchs. His arrogance doomed them all. Ahriman would've made a much better legion leader.

[Dark Scipio]

That Magnus arrogance lead to exatly what the emperor predicted is true. But in how far would have Ahriman (despite beeing no match for a Primarch) done better, isnt he an Arch-Traitor?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

That's debatable. After all, the Rubric was meant to deny Tzeentch's meddling into the form and genome of his Legion -- thus thwarting the will of Tzeentch who for some inestimable reason decided that was a good thing after all. The implication I've seen concerning Ahriman -- both from the codices and from the end of A Thousand Sons -- is that he's fighting against the Imperium seeking knowledge and spellcraft to A.) permanently cure the flesh-change so that he can B.) reverse the Rubric.

[Vixthra]

That's debatable. After all, the Rubric was meant to deny Tzeentch's meddling into the form and genome of his Legion -- thus thwarting the will of Tzeentch who for some inestimable reason decided that was a good thing after all. The implication I've seen concerning Ahriman -- both from the codices and from the end of A Thousand Sons -- is that he's fighting against the Imperium seeking knowledge and spellcraft to A.) permanently cure the flesh-change so that he can B.) reverse the Rubric.

 

I would imagine that Tzeentch's rationale behind supporting the Rubric would go something like this.....

 

Excellent, the twisty swirly whirly gene seed corruption plan worked. I've made Magnus strike a deal to save them temporarily and now he and the legion are mine!! mwahahahaha.......oh....damn......hang on. All my brother gods have have got themselves these rockin' Chaos Space Marines to spread the word, fight the cause etc....and me??......damn I've got this crippled legion.......DAMN.....um.......

 

Hey Ahriman!! Come here a sec (seeds of Rubricness planted in head)........

 

See where I'm goin?? :D

[Captain Juan Juarez]

That Magnus' arrogance lead to exatly what the Emperor predicted is true.

 

Bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy there though, don't you think?

 

E: "I told him not to, but not why, then he got curious and did it anyway, breaking stuff."

 

Whereas;

 

E: "Don't do this because you'll break the world."

 

M: "Yeah, breaking the world would be bad."

 

E: "That's right, so don't do it!"

 

Makes more sense, but would void Magnus' part in the Heresy!

[Wrath of Terra]

Isstvan III was the biggest tragedy (emotionally) IMO.

 

The moment on Istvaan III that resonated most with me was when Angron landed on the planet with his traitor World Eaters en masse to attack his sons and their other legion allies and the handful of World Eaters still loyal to the Emperor didn't hesitate to attack the traitors. Captain Erhlen and the other loyal World Eaters knew they didn't have a chance against a living engine of destruction but they knew their duty too; to try put down the mad dog that was Angron and as many of his pups as they could before they were overwhelmed.

 

It's all the more poigniant when you consider the fact that it the years after the Heresy that the loyalty and heroism of the Astartes from the traitor legions who stayed loyal was deliberately forgotten by the Imperium and almost no memory of their valour remains in the 'present day' Imperium. To me that's a terrible tragedy.