question as i'm making my wolflord

[Mac the knife]

So recently I decided I should convert a wolflord. Up to this point i've finished a great looking base imo and successfully magnetized his torso so i can change his gear without building 10 different versions but the thing I'm stuck on and wanted to get input from my brothers on is should I go with a bare head and have his helmet clasped to his belt or build him with the helmet on?

 

As of right now I'm building the wolf lord with the high gorget torso (MK VIII?)

 

As I currently have my force build all GH have helmets on while my Wolfguard I customize some have bare heads some with helmets and all my long fangs I have bare headed.

 

Once I finish I'll put up some pics in the PCA section to get some feedback

[S. Bloodhowl]

I would go for bare headed as with a helmet on he may be lost in the midst of battle, so to speak

[Mac the knife]

Thanks for the response I was leaning towards bare headed but wasn't sure. Didn't consider him getting lost in the crush of all the other helmeted SM on the table.

 

Hopefully I'll finish in the next couple days.

[CainTheHunter]

Bare head absolutely - they are more bad-ass than helmeted ones. But if You are concerned, You can always attach the helmet somewhere on his gear - as You said.

[hendrik]

we space wovles shun the use of helmets. in general our own senses are better then those provided by the helmet so it gives us a great advantage when not wearing an example. we can for an example smell where our other brothers are, wether they are angry,scared(yeah right;) ) or something else.we have better eyesight then most marines have with their enhanced lenses inside their helmet.

al lot of this gets told in the ragnar novel wolf's honour

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

Of course, if you think about it, only a moron of epic proportions would voluntarily go into a gun/laser battle without a helmet . Luckily, the rules do not penalize models for going without a helmet, so this obvious idiocy is ignored for the sake of cooler looking models. So do whatever you want!

 

 

PS - Where on this board can we trade and/or sell bits? Since I am lame and went with helmets for all my space wolves, I have 50+ bare heads from the new Space Wolves packs I purchased.

[Valerian]

we space wovles shun the use of helmets. in general our own senses are better then those provided by the helmet so it gives us a great advantage when not wearing an example. we can for an example smell where our other brothers are, wether they are angry,scared(yeah right;) ) or something else.we have better eyesight then most marines have with their enhanced lenses inside their helmet.

al lot of this gets told in the ragnar novel wolf's honour

 

Of course you have to judge those benefits against the rather large downside of getting shot in the head. All of my basic Marines wear their helmets. The only ones that don't are the Wolf Scouts, Wolf Guard, and Independent Characters (these guys really aren't setting a good example for their troops).

 

V

[Glimpse the Void]

You have to go bareheaded because that's what bad asses do. I've only just begun modeling space wolves but I would say only about 1 in 7 of mine wear helmets, and thats only because some of them came glued on in trades, and I ran out of the heads I liked while modeling others.

 

we space wovles shun the use of helmets. in general our own senses are better then those provided by the helmet so it gives us a great advantage when not wearing an example. we can for an example smell where our other brothers are, wether they are angry,scared(yeah right;) ) or something else.we have better eyesight then most marines have with their enhanced lenses inside their helmet.

al lot of this gets told in the ragnar novel wolf's honour

 

Of course you have to judge those benefits against the rather large downside of getting shot in the head. All of my basic Marines wear their helmets. The only ones that don't are the Wolf Scouts, Wolf Guard, and Independent Characters (these guys really aren't setting a good example for their troops).

 

V

 

 

I really think it can be argued that the before mentioned "acute senses" may offer more protection that the helmet. It just seems to fit the wolfs battle instincts, and the individuals ability to not only see, smell, sense, what's going on and react accordingly. For instance, if you smell the mutants around the corner, you lob a grenade rather than being glad they only shot you in the helmet.

[Rider-75]

PS - Where on this board can we trade and/or sell bits? Since I am lame and went with helmets for all my space wolves, I have 50+ bare heads from the new Space Wolves packs I purchased.

 

you can't. it's not allowed on the B&C.

 

 

And for the OP: Bare head. Just looks more cool. and if the majority of your army has helms, then you want to be able to quickly pick out your lord.

[Valerian]

You have to go bareheaded because that's what bad asses do. I've only just begun modeling space wolves but I would say only about 1 in 7 of mine wear helmets, and thats only because some of them came glued on in trades, and I ran out of the heads I liked while modeling others.

 

we space wovles shun the use of helmets. in general our own senses are better then those provided by the helmet so it gives us a great advantage when not wearing an example. we can for an example smell where our other brothers are, wether they are angry,scared(yeah right;) ) or something else.we have better eyesight then most marines have with their enhanced lenses inside their helmet.

al lot of this gets told in the ragnar novel wolf's honour

 

Of course you have to judge those benefits against the rather large downside of getting shot in the head. All of my basic Marines wear their helmets. The only ones that don't are the Wolf Scouts, Wolf Guard, and Independent Characters (these guys really aren't setting a good example for their troops).

 

V

 

 

I really think it can be argued that the before mentioned "acute senses" may offer more protection that the helmet. It just seems to fit the wolfs battle instincts, and the individuals ability to not only see, smell, sense, what's going on and react accordingly. For instance, if you smell the mutants around the corner, you lob a grenade rather than being glad they only shot you in the helmet.

 

No doubt the Acute Senses will often be a great advantage and allow you to perhaps avoid trouble. I can certainly see the utility of this tactic when the Space Wolves are moving into contact with the enemy. However, once contact has been gained, the battle has ensued, and the munitions start flying - it is now time to put the helmets back on. If the volleys of bullets, rockets, missiles, lasers, and all of the other threats of the futuristic 40k battlefield are heading inbound toward your unit, your Acute Senses aren't anywear near as useful as some solid ceramite armour to protect your brain-housing-group.

 

V

[Requiem of the Wolf]

And as someone that has had to wear a kevlar helmet while in the military...It wouldn't save you from anything other then a glancing shot anyways,It weighs your head down and hurts the hell out of your neck if you have to wear it for more then a couple hours straight. And to top it all off It adds about 3 inches around your head in every direction that would turn a near miss into a shot that crunches off your helmet.

 

All things considered,the addition of a helmet isn't a improvement all the time. If you ask most guys that have been in the infantry,they would tell you the first thing they would do is ditch the helmet. Thankfully,the body armor they gave us is actually useful. The helmet is just to absorb shrapnel shards...

 

Also...even in heavy combat situations,Scouts and forward observers don't wear helmets...Because they need their senses at maximum.

Now it is entirely possible that the helmets are far more useful,but I think that the downside would be the cutting off of all the senses that a Wolf takes for granted. That would be very unsettling.

 

And to weigh in on the subject...Definitely Bareheaded. I am making my entire SW army bareheaded...though fair warning it will involve alot more painting trouble then helmets,so be prepared for that lol.

[Blitzkreig]

On my Wolf Guard and high ranking soldiers, I use the Wolf's Head Helmet. On my Wolf Lord I used... well I use Logan so yeah.

[Dyre]

Bare headed for ICs, makes them a more dynamic model. It also lends to the fact a commander needs to be able to observe the battlefield and shout rally cries to his troops. This is the same reason why my newer long fang models go without helmets, because clear observation of the battlefield is key for them.

 

That said all of my Grey Hunters and almost all of my power armor wolfguard wear helmets. With all of the new heads available now all of my blood claws have been modeled without helmets, this sort of adds to the dynamics of the packs for me. The cool seasoned vets keep they're helmets on while the blood claws charge into close combat with reckless abandon.

[Valerian]

And as someone that has had to wear a kevlar helmet while in the military...It wouldn't save you from anything other then a glancing shot anyways,It weighs your head down and hurts the hell out of your neck if you have to wear it for more then a couple hours straight. And to top it all off It adds about 3 inches around your head in every direction that would turn a near miss into a shot that crunches off your helmet.

 

All things considered,the addition of a helmet isn't a improvement all the time. If you ask most guys that have been in the infantry,they would tell you the first thing they would do is ditch the helmet. Thankfully,the body armor they gave us is actually useful. The helmet is just to absorb shrapnel shards...

 

You are trying to compare your experience with a modern kevlar helmet with that of a Power Armour's helmet in the imaginary 40k universe, which isn't really appropriate. I'm sure the helmet of a Space Marine was designed for significantly greater battlefield protection. The modern kevlar helmet (just for the the sake of completeness), was indeed designed to protect against shrapnel, but also small caliber rounds (particularly the 9mm standard NATO round). It has been demonstrated to be effective against much more powerful rounds, especially when struck at an angle and able to deflect the round. Just for fun, see here for a completely unscientific test of kevlar helmet effectiveness against a variety of calibers.

 

Also...even in heavy combat situations,Scouts and forward observers don't wear helmets...Because they need their senses at maximum.

 

As a previous Scout Platoon Leader Course graduate, Light Cavalry Troop XO, and Heavy Cavalry Troop Commander, I can tell you that this statement is absolutely not true. When Scouts and Forward Observers man an observation post, helmets are worn. When Scouts conduct an area/zone/route reconnaissance or a security patrol, helmets are on. That is not to say that a Scout should not, or will not, occassionally take a helmet off to get "tuned to his surroundings" - those periods usually only last a few minutes. When Scouts make contact with the enemy, helmets definitely go on and stay on.

 

So my position on this matter remains unchanged - when moving to the fight, it makes complete sense to me that Space Wolves, especially, might go without helmets to make maximum use of their heightened and enhanced senses. However, once the enemy positions have been located, and the shooting has started, it is time to sacrifice the senses a bit and start playing "protect the melon".

 

Best regards,

 

Valerian

[jmurph]

Well, casualty reports from modern battles indicate wearing full armor (IE keeping your helmet on) translated to roughly a 1/6 decrease in casualties. Not too shabby. It's a +1 armor save <_<

 

However, in the 41st millenium, we are talking about wolf soldiers whose bones are stronger than steel, so the Rule of Cool applies. I would say either bare or a super ornamented helmet. Personally, I like bare and just cut the neck part off a helmet, bore the interior and have it hanging from his belt or mount. That way it doesn't look like he lost it (remember that power armor is a sacred thing and may consist of parts that have been used by many great warriors before).

[Requiem of the Wolf]

You are trying to compare your experience with a modern kevlar helmet with that of a Power Armour's helmet in the imaginary 40k universe, which isn't really appropriate. I'm sure the helmet of a Space Marine was designed for significantly greater battlefield protection. The modern kevlar helmet (just for the the sake of completeness), was indeed designed to protect against shrapnel, but also small caliber rounds (particularly the 9mm standard NATO round). It has been demonstrated to be effective against much more powerful rounds, especially when struck at an angle and able to deflect the round. Just for fun, see here for a completely unscientific test of kevlar helmet effectiveness against a variety of calibers.

As a previous Scout Platoon Leader Course graduate, Light Cavalry Troop XO, and Heavy Cavalry Troop Commander, I can tell you that this statement is absolutely not true. When Scouts and Forward Observers man an observation post, helmets are worn. When Scouts conduct an area/zone/route reconnaissance or a security patrol, helmets are on. That is not to say that a Scout should not, or will not, occassionally take a helmet off to get "tuned to his surroundings" - those periods usually only last a few minutes. When Scouts make contact with the enemy, helmets definitely go on and stay on.

 

So my position on this matter remains unchanged - when moving to the fight, it makes complete sense to me that Space Wolves, especially, might go without helmets to make maximum use of their heightened and enhanced senses. However, once the enemy positions have been located, and the shooting has started, it is time to sacrifice the senses a bit and start playing "protect the melon".

Ok,as I did say in my post that the helmet they use is likely far better,it still has downsides. The scouts that I knew and very rarely worked with,hated the helmets and would avoid using them whenever possible. And in fact took great joy in pointing out that they didn't have to wear them while I did. Now it is entirely likely that Cav Scouts and Infantry Scouts had different rules...so no clue there. It is also possible that my experiences were biased due to the particular commander...which is also possible.

 

Now from a completely fluff wise point of view,most times the Space Wolves in particular will fight without helmets,due to taking advantage of the greater senses. They are represented in books and in graphic novels again and again as fighting without helmets more often then not.

[Jonny]

From a fluff point of view in the Space Wolf books there it seems to show there is a great hate for wearing helmets and everyone were mentioned is represented as not wearing a helmet unless they have to due to Chaos poison or lack of air, Ragnar at one point even complains it makes him feel like an "ordinary human". So in my opinion from a fluff point of view, no he wouldn't wear a helmet, lets face it health and safety isn't near the top of the list of priorities when it comes to Space Wolves. Space Wolves are constantly represented as relying on their heightened senses and really hating when they are cut off, I don't think logical thought on personal safety ever really comes into it. It is for this reason about 90-95% of my models don't have a helmet and those that do either have the wolf helmet or the "beak" helmet so I can make it fluff-wise that the elongated snout contains mechanisms to allow them to smell their surrounding environment.

 

-Jonny