Crusader... ultimate ork killer?

[WeWillBuryYou]

So I've been toying with the idea of adding a Land Raider to my SW army and have been leaning towards the crusader/redeemer variety. This will of course allow me the option of throwing in 15 blood claws and a wolf priest, but I've also been thinking about how much dakka a LRC can spit out. Boyz hate dakka. Boyz are not good at popping av14. Match made in heaven? You tell me. Have also been thinking of putting an Iron Priest in said LRC with three thrall servitors and saga of the iron wolf, effectively allowing me to instantly repair any weapon destroyed or immobilized results. As long as i stay away from tankbustas am i wrong in assuming this is an unstoppable killing machine? Obviously expensive, this baby comes in at 355 points but puts out 12 bolter shots within 12 inches that are rerolled, 4 assault cannon shots, and one melta at a different target if i moved 6.

[Simo429]

Blood claws with a priest in a LRC will go through a mod of 30 orks like a knife through hot butter

[Brother Caleb]

Blood claws with a priest in a LRC will go through a mod of 30 orks like a knife through hot butter

Saw this happen last night. Despite the fact that I was paired with the Ork player, I was proud of my fellow wolves. Dem boyz got demolished.

 

Edit: In addition to the wolf priest, he attached Ragnar. It was brutal.

[WeWillBuryYou]

isnt that a bit overkill?

[Karack Blackstone]

If you're willing to spend the points, nothing is technically overkill...

 

That said, it's a big points sink. Especially if one goes with:

 

Ragnar

 

WP

 

WG w/ PFist, BP

 

13 BC's w/ PW

 

LRC

[Brother Caleb]

isnt that a bit overkill?

Probably. Especially considering it was a 1000pt game. The rest of his army was 2 units of 5 bare bones hunters in lascannon razorbacks.

 

Definitely a one trick pony. <_<

[Hotspur]

isnt that a bit overkill?

 

What is this word "overkill" you speak of? :D

 

The LRC battering ram is indeed one of the best/funnest units to field, even if it is really pricey. I tend to think that the amount of damage a unit like this can do is well worth the points, especially against certain armies.

 

Redeemers are also extremely good at thinning out the masses, but they have a shorter much range. In my opinion, the bottom line is you can't go wrong with a LRC battering ram or a LRR battering ram.

[TopToffee]

Only problem with that sort of unit is that it's TOO good...

 

you'll annihilate whatever you hit when you assault, and be stood out in the open, ready to be cut down by enemy shooting

[jmurph]

Against ork shooting, that's usually not that big a deal.

 

Wouldn't WG be better than BCs with Ragnar generally, though, for a nominal price difference?

 

Consider that 10 BCs on the charge usually hit on 4s whereas the WG would get 3s against WS3. The BCs ability is only useful if you roll a 1 on Ragnar's charge roll. Plus WG can carry better gear options. Just an idea.

 

And rather than dumping all those points in a LRC and unit, I would pour them into TWC! ;)

[Karack Blackstone]

The charge minimum of Berserk Charge (+2 Atks) means that even if you roll a one, you still get +2 Atks for the charge, as well as Furious Assault, last I checked. So WG may be different and more attacks overall, but you do have a squad size limit to 10, which means the BC's become superior so long as they get the charge off.

 

And TWC are starting to look really appealing, just can't afford and no GW/FW models yet.

[the jeske]

sm player do this and then wonder why orks played biker nob lists or battle wagon death roller spam ;) .

[Brother Caleb]

sm player do this and then wonder why orks played biker nob lists or battle wagon death roller spam :huh: .

Agreed. My ork partner was pretty upset that he really couldn't do anything.

[Valerian]

Against ork shooting, that's usually not that big a deal.

 

Wouldn't WG be better than BCs with Ragnar generally, though, for a nominal price difference?

 

Wolf Guard would be a little better, perhaps, but then you'd be using up 1 Elite slot just to get the unit to go with Ragnar, and would need to use another Elite slot to get more Wolf Guard if you wanted any Pack Leaders for your other units.

 

Additionally, Wolf Guard (unless you take Logan, too) aren't Scoring, whereas the Blood Claws are.

 

Consider that 10 BCs on the charge usually hit on 4s whereas the WG would get 3s against WS3. The BCs ability is only useful if you roll a 1 on Ragnar's charge roll. Plus WG can carry better gear options. Just an idea.

 

Against other MEQ's your Blood Claws and your Wolf Guard will both be hitting on 4+ (exact same); the Wolf Guard will get between 4-6 Attacks each on the charge, whereas the Blood Claws will get either 4 or 5 Attacks each on the charge (about the same); the Wolf Guard goes to a maximum of 10 members in the unit, while the Blood Claws can go up to 15. The disadvantages for Blood Claws are that they don't have but 1 option for a Special Close Combat Weapon, and MEQ's will hit them back on 3+.

 

Since the two choices end up with pretty comparable capability with regards to combat output and protection, it is usually the prefered choice to just go with the Blood Claws to keep the ability to control objectives, and to ease pressure on the Elite slots in the FOC.

 

Neither is a bad choice, however, and you could easily get good mileage out of Ragnar and Wolf Guard.

 

I've been running Ragnar in a regular Land Raider with a unit of Grey Hunters and a WGL, but plan on trying out Ragnar with 4 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour and 1 additional Wolf Guard in Power Armour in the Land Raider just for fun. It'll be expensive, but will have enough combat power to hit hard against any opposing "Death Star" units.

 

V

[Niiai]

I would love to se that ragnar/bloodclaws/landraider vs a bike with melta or a DP with melta. Funn funn.

[Silverwolf]

I wouldn't say the Crusader is the ultimate Ork killer, but it basically depends on whether your running BCs or WG.

 

If your using a WP + Ragnar + WG, then use a Redeemer, as it's flamers are going to mean no cover saves, and work against MEQ just as well as they do against orks. (Redeemer + WP + Ragnar + WG = MEQ Destruction - but costly)

 

If the BCs, then yeh use the Crusader with a WP, maybe a WGPL or WGBL, and Ragnar if you really want to (Personally I think it's not worth the points to attach Ragnar unless your going with the Redeemer + WG option).

 

 

In regards to "this being why Ork players run Nob Bikes" etc, maybe... but then our option for something like this is from memory far more expensive then their Nob Bikes, and less durable / effective. This crap can be fairly easily countered in a number of ways if you know how (which is half the fun of running one-trick units, trying to counter the counters :)), with nob bikers, it's basically throw as much crap as you can at them and hope they die.

 

FTR. Eldar Mech, Tau Hybrid, IG Mech / Static eat our "Landraider of Doom" units for breakfast without breaking a sweat. For that matter green tide armies (or purple tide if we're talking Nids) will also eat that unit for breakfast as the whole tactic of the Landraider units is to annihilate a unit on the charge (Or at least be cleaning them up in the next round of close combat). If you fail to pick your targets well, you get bogged down in a big brawl, and overwhelmed by sheer numbers. Specially if we're talking about Ork Boys with "hidden" Nob Power Claws.

 

Against a Green/Purple Tide army, it can be pretty tricky to isolate a single unit to wipe. Your best option is generally to use the Landraider as a blocker unit, literally ramming it into their lines (forcing a split in their forces), then turning it against one side of the split, while unleashing your close combat team against the other (To try to prevent a counter-charge situation, and give your close combat unit some breathing room).

 

I'd say our version of Nob Bikers is actually the tooled out Wolf Lord on Thunder Wolf mount, attached to / running behind a pack of Fenris Wolves.

[Karack Blackstone]

I'd wager TWC is closer to Nob Bikers, but that's a matter for another thread.

 

I've used the killbox unit as I like to call it, and it works out most of the time if used properly. It is a tool of war, and just like anything has its uses and flaws.

 

Overall it's too expensive for anything below even 2K pts, maybe even 2.5K or 3K, but when it works out people will hate you for it. It's basically a thunderhammer approach to war, and since we can only do one, it's not a great day if we should lose the unit without doing any damage.